Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!

[Anonymous]

Gimme the damn voucher and shut up already!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Gimme a voucher for that!

Sure, you can have a voucher for $17k. Where exactly are you going to send your child to school with that in DC? What is the guaranteed nirvana you dream of?

Not PP but Gonzaga is $21k and STC is $18.5k. Would love to have a $17k voucher towards my DS going there.

Right, this assumes that your DS is magically going to get into Gonzaga or STC. There are simply not enough spots in high quality privates for all the middle class DCUMers who would get $17k vouchers (even in this imaginary world where vouchers go to the middle class and approach the cost of per-pupil expenditure).

Already magically got into both. Speak for yourself.

Right, and how would they have fared if there were 1000s more applicants for those spots due to vouchers?

Anyway, this is moot for most of us here because vouchers go to lower income families, and they are not likely to approach anywhere near the price of private school tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gimme the damn voucher and shut up already!!!!!!

That's a useful contribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30,000 per student in DC. that is what charters get and what dcps gets per student? Holy cow!

Yes, if you give me 30,000 per kid, I'm pretty sure I could arrange an excellent education for my kids. How can DCPS not? Basically, they could hire like one teacher for every 5 kids?

That's not 30k going directly to instruction. It's everything else you need to manage a large organization. It's also an average - kids with more needs get more. There is much more to running a school district than paying a teacher.

DC has one of the highest per-pupil spending of any school district. According to one study, DC has the highest per-pupil spending of any school district in the country. They pay teachers very highly for the area, so that explains some of the amount. The rest of it?

Well lets take this apart. The vouchers crowd claims that the free market represents the "true" educational model. Hence, the amount of vouchers ought to reflect the price that can be paid on the free market for a good education. The good privates in DC charge somewhere around 30k/year. Hence, 30k/year is a reasonable market price in DC to pay for a good education.

$40,000, not $30,000. It was $30,000 five years past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30,000 per student in DC. that is what charters get and what dcps gets per student? Holy cow!

Yes, if you give me 30,000 per kid, I'm pretty sure I could arrange an excellent education for my kids. How can DCPS not? Basically, they could hire like one teacher for every 5 kids?

That's not 30k going directly to instruction. It's everything else you need to manage a large organization. It's also an average - kids with more needs get more. There is much more to running a school district than paying a teacher.

DC has one of the highest per-pupil spending of any school district. According to one study, DC has the highest per-pupil spending of any school district in the country. They pay teachers very highly for the area, so that explains some of the amount. The rest of it?

Well lets take this apart. The vouchers crowd claims that the free market represents the "true" educational model. Hence, the amount of vouchers ought to reflect the price that can be paid on the free market for a good education. The good privates in DC charge somewhere around 30k/year. Hence, 30k/year is a reasonable market price in DC to pay for a good education.

$40,000, not $30,000. It was $30,000 five years past.

Ok great! So DCPS is actually more efficient at educating students than privates.

[Anonymous]

^^^^ PP, the problem is DCPS doesn't educate students well nor does it provide a safe environment. So it's good money after bad, or down the toilet as it were. The way you're cheerleading blindly, you mustn't have a kid in the system or else you'd want a voucher too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^^ PP, the problem is DCPS doesn't educate students well nor does it provide a safe environment. So it's good money after bad, or down the toilet as it were. The way you're cheerleading blindly, you mustn't have a kid in the system or else you'd want a voucher too.

I don't even understand what you're arguing about. So you think DCPS (charter and public) is never likely to do anyone any good and should just be shut down. Okee dokey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gimme the damn voucher and shut up already!!!!!!

That's a useful contribution.

Not as much as the voucher itself.

[Anonymous]

i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. The NCES evaluation of DC's federal voucher program noted: "No conclusive evidence that the OSP [opportunity scholarship program] affected student achievement overall, or for the high-priority group of students who applied from "schools in need of improvement."

Full report here:

http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/pubs/20104018/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

Exactly, and what is wrong with that? Vouchers will stop the middle class from leaving, thereby stabilizing neighborhoods. They will also provide opportunity to the poor, who benefit from them now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

Exactly, and what is wrong with that? Vouchers will stop the middle class from leaving, thereby stabilizing neighborhoods. They will also provide opportunity to the poor, who benefit from them now.

+1.

The point of schools is to educate their students, not to "solve the problems of urban poverty for most"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

Exactly, and what is wrong with that? Vouchers will stop the middle class from leaving, thereby stabilizing neighborhoods. They will also provide opportunity to the poor, who benefit from them now.

+1.

The point of schools is to educate their students, not to "solve the problems of urban poverty for most"

Once again: Vouchers will not be going to the middle class. That's not the structure of voucher programs. Even if they do go to the middle class they will not create new high quality seats in the DC market. Unless you have specifics about how it will work in DC (other than magic) please just knock it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

Exactly, and what is wrong with that? Vouchers will stop the middle class from leaving, thereby stabilizing neighborhoods. They will also provide opportunity to the poor, who benefit from them now.

+1.

The point of schools is to educate their students, not to "solve the problems of urban poverty for most"

-1000. One thing about gentrification is that it leads to the rich sharing public resources with the poor. That puts us all very much in the same boat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

You would
Think that educated people would understand this. Maybe they are being intentionally obtuse.