Uncomfortable religious situations you were forced into

[Anonymous]

My own faith tradition that we are loosely raising our kids in. I had to face the misogyny of the rituals at a recent family event. Hard looking at it through my daughter’s eyes and knowing that in the ritual women are considered less than men (and therefore she was less than her brother). The rituals of our religion, like I am sure for many others, make us feel connected to our community and our past. But the past was not a great time to be a girl.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know that going to church twice while you were being hosted by another family counts as a truly uncomfortable religious situation.

Have you ever been to a Southern Baptist youth group meeting? I grew up in that mess. It really screwed me up for a long time. Southern Baptist services end with a bizzare alter call every week. It's the opposite of what a Christian church should look like. I could see how it would make a child uncomfortable. I'm an adult and a Christian and it creeps me out. The only time I go to my parents' church is when I absolutely have no choice- weddings, funerals, stuff like that.

I hear you but she didn't describe an altar call or revival type experience. She's most bothered that they didn't ask their 15 year old guest if she wanted to go with them or stay unsupervised in their home. That doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation to have of that family.

Once again:

Having someone's kid in your house does not give you the right to force your religion on them, period. A mom should be able to trust a family friend to watch her kid for a few days without having to explicitly say, "Don't try to force your religion on my kid, please". These are basic rules of polite society, like keeping a roll of toilet paper in the bathroom, or washing your hands before a meal, or remembering to do your laundry.

If you are a Christian family who is doing a favor by hosting a non-Christian kid, and if the kid looks like he's able to be at home alone for 2 hours a day (like the PP, a teenager, was clearly capable of) then give him a cheery good morning on Sunday, show him where the cereal is, tell him not to open the door for strangers, and whisk your Christian family off to church. Your guest can stay at home.

Because that is a basic expectation of polite, secular society. You're welcome.

You've missed the point, but by all means continue.

No, she hasn’t, but in your own rigid mind, please continue.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In your situation absolutely I would force you to go. You were under their supervision. I would never leave you home alone nor would I disrupt my family life because you are uncomfortable going. Your mother chose them to look after you, blame your own mother.

+1. At some point OP said they could have just left her home alone. Well, your own mother thought you were too immature to be left home alone -- that's why she plopped you with this family for three days!!! Also, LOL at OP saying the family asking her "what she learned" at church was somehow offensive. Dude, that's a tame non-question. You could just say, "That community is important" or "that the world needs peace." OP sounds like she's still a teen and thinks her parent asking her, "How was school?" is so invasive that she has to yell, "Fine!" and run upstairs to her room.

Three days is not a morning. One could think a teenager is fine for a morning but not want them to stay in a house alone for 3 days. Also, I highly doubt OP's mother had any idea this would happen. My own mother was fine with me attending religious events with friends of other religions but only if the parents asked first. And all the parents did. And so did we. Come over on a Friday night that we may be going to synagogue? We'll warn you first so you can decide if you want to come or not.

Anyway the subject of this thread isn't "religious trauma," it's "uncomfortable situations." I can see why OP, as a teenager, might have been uncomfortable. That doesn't mean she was traumatised. Nor does it mean she would react the same way now as an adult. It's just something she remembers and is throwing out there. I think it's an interesting discussion on both sides.

I'm not leaving someone else's kid alone in my house, period. The topic also includes the worse "forced." It is a very interesting discussion. I hope OP reflects on this memory with more generosity of spirit toward her gracious hosts.

“Generous,” my rear end. They exploited doing a favor for a friend to try to suck the friend’s kid into their Right Wing cult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The funny part of this whole took-the-teenager-to-church fiasco thing is that these are the same people that love diversity and inclusion and would be so happy to have little Larla visit a Buddhist temple and talk with the nice monks, but if you are a Christian they'll dump their kids with you for three days and freak out that you don't want to leave their kid unsupervised in their house as you go about your normal life.

Cool. So take your kid with you, let them sit in the hall or in an empty part of the church, don’t require them to participate in YOUR religion, and certainly don’t make them go to a Bible study and then grill them at home about “what they learned” about YOUR religion.

Easy. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad is that all the rest of us with stories got buried under the arguing. This thread had promise and was ruined by bickering.

Yeah, the angry evangelicals got a little bit defensive.

Yup. And the hilarious part, after they make multiple, rambling defensive posts in the exact same style (so transparent), then they claim to be “atheists” because they think it bolsters their argument. ROFL.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid (Episcopalian), I visited some Catholic relatives when I was around 10 or 11 years old. They took me to church on Sunday, which was fine, similar enough to what I knew from home. Not thinking anything of it, I joined my cousins in line for communion, took communion from the priest like anyone else, and that was the end of it. When I got home and told my chill parents, they laughed because I "shouldn't" have taken communion, and for years it became this big family joke that if the Catholics in our family were right, I was going to hell for taking communion as a non-Catholic.

But that's not what was uncomfortable. What was uncomfortable was decades later, at a relaxed meal with professional colleagues, having the occasion to tell this story while the dinner conversation was on the topic of kids not understanding things. A colleague seated across from me absolutely BLEW UP at me about this. How disrespectful that was to the church, how could I treat "the host" with such contempt, how my relatives should have known better and how could they have let me, how could I not have known better, etc. It made everyone at the table beyond visibly uncomfortable.

The irony was that he himself was a VERY recent convert to Catholicism, though very devout (as converts always are). Man, what a jerk.

You were both wrong. He was a jerk for blowing up at you. You are a jerk for making a joke out of other people’s sincere religious beliefs that don’t affect you in any way.

PP here. That's fair and I'll take the criticism. I don't "joke" about it the way my family did when I was a teenager, for that reason. In my defense, to have my parents reveal to me that an entire religion believed I was going to hell as a 10-year old for innocently following my cousins in what appeared to be the same kind of communion line I went to at home was something that had to be done with humor. To tell it to me at that age without humor would have been terrifying. (Of course, I would not have been the first child deeply scarred by Roman Catholicism.)

Great job pretending to apologize and then launching another insult at the end. How very ecumenical of you. Seems to be a character trait.

Perhaps the likelihood of punishment for your mistake will depend on how you react to learning you, yes accidentally, disrespected someone’s tradition? I know if I disrespected your tradition I would actually apologize and not mock you and then pretend apologize while still insulting you.

Oh, please. She didn't disrespect Catholicism by taking communion. She was a child and didn't know any better.

Failing to show respect in an accidental manner, such as by not removing one's shoes in a Mosque, is not a big deal if the mistake was not purposeful and the person refrains from doing it in the future. Making a "big family joke" about it and telling the story in a mocking way in interfaith and professional setting is disrespectful.

There is a weird loophole among mainline types, Episcopalians being the worst offenders, of being taught be scrupulously (even ostentatiously) respectful of religions like Islam, Judaism, etc. But then mocking, insulting, sneering, condemning Mormons, Catholics and other Christian denominations. It's not surprising since there is a long, long history of Episcopalian bigotry against those groups and people. So it's nothing new, it's just a continuation of the same practices hundreds of years later.

Just don't mock other people's faith, period, especially when it doesn't impact you. If they want you to take off your shoes, then do it. If they do not want to you enter to a certain part of their temple or participate in certain rituals, don't. Treat others how you would want to be treated. It's quite basic, really.

It sounds like it was her parents who made it a big family joke, not OP, who was A CHILD. And she was sharing it within a conversation about misunderstandings as children, not in a mocking way. If she was making fun of anyone, it was herself, clearly.

A joke that went along for years, repeated at professional settings, again on this thread, etc. But if you want to settle this by chalking up to her parent's terrible parenting skills, I'm ok with that. We can move forward and learn from their mistakes and teach the next generation better than we were taught.

Take a pill.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid (Episcopalian), I visited some Catholic relatives when I was around 10 or 11 years old. They took me to church on Sunday, which was fine, similar enough to what I knew from home. Not thinking anything of it, I joined my cousins in line for communion, took communion from the priest like anyone else, and that was the end of it. When I got home and told my chill parents, they laughed because I "shouldn't" have taken communion, and for years it became this big family joke that if the Catholics in our family were right, I was going to hell for taking communion as a non-Catholic.

But that's not what was uncomfortable. What was uncomfortable was decades later, at a relaxed meal with professional colleagues, having the occasion to tell this story while the dinner conversation was on the topic of kids not understanding things. A colleague seated across from me absolutely BLEW UP at me about this. How disrespectful that was to the church, how could I treat "the host" with such contempt, how my relatives should have known better and how could they have let me, how could I not have known better, etc. It made everyone at the table beyond visibly uncomfortable.

The irony was that he himself was a VERY recent convert to Catholicism, though very devout (as converts always are). Man, what a jerk.

You were both wrong. He was a jerk for blowing up at you. You are a jerk for making a joke out of other people’s sincere religious beliefs that don’t affect you in any way.

PP here. That's fair and I'll take the criticism. I don't "joke" about it the way my family did when I was a teenager, for that reason. In my defense, to have my parents reveal to me that an entire religion believed I was going to hell as a 10-year old for innocently following my cousins in what appeared to be the same kind of communion line I went to at home was something that had to be done with humor. To tell it to me at that age without humor would have been terrifying. (Of course, I would not have been the first child deeply scarred by Roman Catholicism.)

Great job pretending to apologize and then launching another insult at the end. How very ecumenical of you. Seems to be a character trait.

Perhaps the likelihood of punishment for your mistake will depend on how you react to learning you, yes accidentally, disrespected someone’s tradition? I know if I disrespected your tradition I would actually apologize and not mock you and then pretend apologize while still insulting you.

Oh, please. She didn't disrespect Catholicism by taking communion. She was a child and didn't know any better.

Failing to show respect in an accidental manner, such as by not removing one's shoes in a Mosque, is not a big deal if the mistake was not purposeful and the person refrains from doing it in the future. Making a "big family joke" about it and telling the story in a mocking way in interfaith and professional setting is disrespectful.

There is a weird loophole among mainline types, Episcopalians being the worst offenders, of being taught be scrupulously (even ostentatiously) respectful of religions like Islam, Judaism, etc. But then mocking, insulting, sneering, condemning Mormons, Catholics and other Christian denominations. It's not surprising since there is a long, long history of Episcopalian bigotry against those groups and people. So it's nothing new, it's just a continuation of the same practices hundreds of years later.

Just don't mock other people's faith, period, especially when it doesn't impact you. If they want you to take off your shoes, then do it. If they do not want to you enter to a certain part of their temple or participate in certain rituals, don't. Treat others how you would want to be treated. It's quite basic, really.

It sounds like it was her parents who made it a big family joke, not OP, who was A CHILD. And she was sharing it within a conversation about misunderstandings as children, not in a mocking way. If she was making fun of anyone, it was herself, clearly.

A joke that went along for years, repeated at professional settings, again on this thread, etc. But if you want to settle this by chalking up to her parent's terrible parenting skills, I'm ok with that. We can move forward and learn from their mistakes and teach the next generation better than we were taught.

I don't interpret the PP's sharing of this story on this thread as joking. She mentions her parents joked about it, but nowhere does it seem that she herself is laughing over it. She is simply sharing a story that is on topic. I'm sorry that this story makes you so upset--perhaps this isn't the right thread for you if you're going to be bothered by it?

A thread which has the thinly veiled purpose of mocking the religious traditions of other people? You are right, it's probably not the thread for me.

I've met people of many different faith backgrounds and never felt uncomfortable. Including with Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Assemblies of God and other assorted troglodytes.

The only uncomfortable religious situations I've been in are among secular progressives and their adjacent religious-lite allies (like Episcopalians) in professional settings who assume I am one of them (I blend in well I guess) and let the mask down and mock and insult people for their beliefs. Usually I stay silent, but I guess because this is an anonymous forum I feel brave enough to speak up?

It's not right, it's not just, and you should stop it.

You whine endlessly about others “disrespecting other people’s religions,” but just couldn’t help yourself from slipping in that snotty little judgmental “religious lite allies (like Episcopalians).”

If you don’t own a mirror, you should buy one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Protestant, and both occured in the Catholic church. DC went to a Catholic school for middle and I recommend anyone to this school...I love everything about it. When he would be awarded something (virtue of the month) it was a big deal for him, and it was given during Mass. I respect the Catholic Church and it's routines, but it still rankled that I was denied Communion. I believe everything invovled and my feelings are strong, so to be "not good enough" was hard.

The 2nd was at a family member's funeral, and a few of us were asked to read scripture from the pupit. I grew up a preacher's kid...I've read the Bible through and have read publicly 100's of times. But we were told 15 minutes before that we needed training, and the official asked if we were Catholic, we said no, Protestant, and he said "It's ok, I've taught atheists to do this".

It took everything in my power to not walk out...I stayed for family. I did not bow to the priest.

If you believe everything involved, why not just be Catholic?

Non-Catholics shouldn’t be reading at Mass, even at a funeral.

Episcopalian and I read the New Testament reading at my beloved uncle’s funeral, at his prearranged request.

No one needs your permission and no one cares what they think should or shouldn’t happen. I know that rankles you so.

[Anonymous]

At a party at my house, my militant atheist BIL announced out of nowhere that he wanted everybody to say whether they were religious or not. He loves to drag religion into conversations like that. Anyway, I had to cringe for the one Black woman at the party, who is a devout Catholic, because he humiliated her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid (Episcopalian), I visited some Catholic relatives when I was around 10 or 11 years old. They took me to church on Sunday, which was fine, similar enough to what I knew from home. Not thinking anything of it, I joined my cousins in line for communion, took communion from the priest like anyone else, and that was the end of it. When I got home and told my chill parents, they laughed because I "shouldn't" have taken communion, and for years it became this big family joke that if the Catholics in our family were right, I was going to hell for taking communion as a non-Catholic.

But that's not what was uncomfortable. What was uncomfortable was decades later, at a relaxed meal with professional colleagues, having the occasion to tell this story while the dinner conversation was on the topic of kids not understanding things. A colleague seated across from me absolutely BLEW UP at me about this. How disrespectful that was to the church, how could I treat "the host" with such contempt, how my relatives should have known better and how could they have let me, how could I not have known better, etc. It made everyone at the table beyond visibly uncomfortable.

The irony was that he himself was a VERY recent convert to Catholicism, though very devout (as converts always are). Man, what a jerk.

You were both wrong. He was a jerk for blowing up at you. You are a jerk for making a joke out of other people’s sincere religious beliefs that don’t affect you in any way.

PP here. That's fair and I'll take the criticism. I don't "joke" about it the way my family did when I was a teenager, for that reason. In my defense, to have my parents reveal to me that an entire religion believed I was going to hell as a 10-year old for innocently following my cousins in what appeared to be the same kind of communion line I went to at home was something that had to be done with humor. To tell it to me at that age without humor would have been terrifying. (Of course, I would not have been the first child deeply scarred by Roman Catholicism.)

Great job pretending to apologize and then launching another insult at the end. How very ecumenical of you. Seems to be a character trait.

Perhaps the likelihood of punishment for your mistake will depend on how you react to learning you, yes accidentally, disrespected someone’s tradition? I know if I disrespected your tradition I would actually apologize and not mock you and then pretend apologize while still insulting you.

What's wrong with you?!? PP didn't do anything wrong at all, and was gracious enough to write she was willing to take criticism. Go away, horrible person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid (Episcopalian), I visited some Catholic relatives when I was around 10 or 11 years old. They took me to church on Sunday, which was fine, similar enough to what I knew from home. Not thinking anything of it, I joined my cousins in line for communion, took communion from the priest like anyone else, and that was the end of it. When I got home and told my chill parents, they laughed because I "shouldn't" have taken communion, and for years it became this big family joke that if the Catholics in our family were right, I was going to hell for taking communion as a non-Catholic.

But that's not what was uncomfortable. What was uncomfortable was decades later, at a relaxed meal with professional colleagues, having the occasion to tell this story while the dinner conversation was on the topic of kids not understanding things. A colleague seated across from me absolutely BLEW UP at me about this. How disrespectful that was to the church, how could I treat "the host" with such contempt, how my relatives should have known better and how could they have let me, how could I not have known better, etc. It made everyone at the table beyond visibly uncomfortable.

The irony was that he himself was a VERY recent convert to Catholicism, though very devout (as converts always are). Man, what a jerk.

You were both wrong. He was a jerk for blowing up at you. You are a jerk for making a joke out of other people’s sincere religious beliefs that don’t affect you in any way.

PP here. That's fair and I'll take the criticism. I don't "joke" about it the way my family did when I was a teenager, for that reason. In my defense, to have my parents reveal to me that an entire religion believed I was going to hell as a 10-year old for innocently following my cousins in what appeared to be the same kind of communion line I went to at home was something that had to be done with humor. To tell it to me at that age without humor would have been terrifying. (Of course, I would not have been the first child deeply scarred by Roman Catholicism.)

Great job pretending to apologize and then launching another insult at the end. How very ecumenical of you. Seems to be a character trait.

Perhaps the likelihood of punishment for your mistake will depend on how you react to learning you, yes accidentally, disrespected someone’s tradition? I know if I disrespected your tradition I would actually apologize and not mock you and then pretend apologize while still insulting you.

What's wrong with you?!? PP didn't do anything wrong at all, and was gracious enough to write she was willing to take criticism. Go away, horrible person.

NP. Sure, circle the wagons but we can all see that PP was disrespectful and is also making a mountain out of a molehill in order to score some weird point (why does she even care what Catholics think of her afterlife prospects?).

[Anonymous]

OP! Interesting thread. It really has me thinking….

FWIW, I would have taken you to church with me, but not to forced my religion upon you. Since, I told your mom that I would take care of you, I would never leave you home alone when the entire family were going out. It would not have crossed my mind to do so.

My children are grown; hopefully I will remember this topic with my future grandchildren.

A big thank you to all for sharing their stories

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid (Episcopalian), I visited some Catholic relatives when I was around 10 or 11 years old. They took me to church on Sunday, which was fine, similar enough to what I knew from home. Not thinking anything of it, I joined my cousins in line for communion, took communion from the priest like anyone else, and that was the end of it. When I got home and told my chill parents, they laughed because I "shouldn't" have taken communion, and for years it became this big family joke that if the Catholics in our family were right, I was going to hell for taking communion as a non-Catholic.

But that's not what was uncomfortable. What was uncomfortable was decades later, at a relaxed meal with professional colleagues, having the occasion to tell this story while the dinner conversation was on the topic of kids not understanding things. A colleague seated across from me absolutely BLEW UP at me about this. How disrespectful that was to the church, how could I treat "the host" with such contempt, how my relatives should have known better and how could they have let me, how could I not have known better, etc. It made everyone at the table beyond visibly uncomfortable.

The irony was that he himself was a VERY recent convert to Catholicism, though very devout (as converts always are). Man, what a jerk.

You were both wrong. He was a jerk for blowing up at you. You are a jerk for making a joke out of other people’s sincere religious beliefs that don’t affect you in any way.

PP here. That's fair and I'll take the criticism. I don't "joke" about it the way my family did when I was a teenager, for that reason. In my defense, to have my parents reveal to me that an entire religion believed I was going to hell as a 10-year old for innocently following my cousins in what appeared to be the same kind of communion line I went to at home was something that had to be done with humor. To tell it to me at that age without humor would have been terrifying. (Of course, I would not have been the first child deeply scarred by Roman Catholicism.)

Great job pretending to apologize and then launching another insult at the end. How very ecumenical of you. Seems to be a character trait.

Perhaps the likelihood of punishment for your mistake will depend on how you react to learning you, yes accidentally, disrespected someone’s tradition? I know if I disrespected your tradition I would actually apologize and not mock you and then pretend apologize while still insulting you.

What's wrong with you?!? PP didn't do anything wrong at all, and was gracious enough to write she was willing to take criticism. Go away, horrible person.

NP. Sure, circle the wagons but we can all see that PP was disrespectful and is also making a mountain out of a molehill in order to score some weird point (why does she even care what Catholics think of her afterlife prospects?).

Whoa. I’m the original PP with the story and didn’t realize it had blown up. I am sorry but I do not see how it was “disrespectful” of me - as a child - to not know that I was supposed to skip communion. I’m not even sure I really understood that my cousins’ church was a different denomination from my home church at that age. I literally didn’t know the rules and no one told me. So while I regret apparently causing some pain to the guy who yelled at me at my work dinner and to you, I am not sure what else I can do to satisfy you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid (Episcopalian), I visited some Catholic relatives when I was around 10 or 11 years old. They took me to church on Sunday, which was fine, similar enough to what I knew from home. Not thinking anything of it, I joined my cousins in line for communion, took communion from the priest like anyone else, and that was the end of it. When I got home and told my chill parents, they laughed because I "shouldn't" have taken communion, and for years it became this big family joke that if the Catholics in our family were right, I was going to hell for taking communion as a non-Catholic.

But that's not what was uncomfortable. What was uncomfortable was decades later, at a relaxed meal with professional colleagues, having the occasion to tell this story while the dinner conversation was on the topic of kids not understanding things. A colleague seated across from me absolutely BLEW UP at me about this. How disrespectful that was to the church, how could I treat "the host" with such contempt, how my relatives should have known better and how could they have let me, how could I not have known better, etc. It made everyone at the table beyond visibly uncomfortable.

The irony was that he himself was a VERY recent convert to Catholicism, though very devout (as converts always are). Man, what a jerk.

You were both wrong. He was a jerk for blowing up at you. You are a jerk for making a joke out of other people’s sincere religious beliefs that don’t affect you in any way.

PP here. That's fair and I'll take the criticism. I don't "joke" about it the way my family did when I was a teenager, for that reason. In my defense, to have my parents reveal to me that an entire religion believed I was going to hell as a 10-year old for innocently following my cousins in what appeared to be the same kind of communion line I went to at home was something that had to be done with humor. To tell it to me at that age without humor would have been terrifying. (Of course, I would not have been the first child deeply scarred by Roman Catholicism.)

Great job pretending to apologize and then launching another insult at the end. How very ecumenical of you. Seems to be a character trait.

Perhaps the likelihood of punishment for your mistake will depend on how you react to learning you, yes accidentally, disrespected someone’s tradition? I know if I disrespected your tradition I would actually apologize and not mock you and then pretend apologize while still insulting you.

What's wrong with you?!? PP didn't do anything wrong at all, and was gracious enough to write she was willing to take criticism. Go away, horrible person.

NP. Sure, circle the wagons but we can all see that PP was disrespectful and is also making a mountain out of a molehill in order to score some weird point (why does she even care what Catholics think of her afterlife prospects?).

Whoa. I’m the original PP with the story and didn’t realize it had blown up. I am sorry but I do not see how it was “disrespectful” of me - as a child - to not know that I was supposed to skip communion. I’m not even sure I really understood that my cousins’ church was a different denomination from my home church at that age. I literally didn’t know the rules and no one told me. So while I regret apparently causing some pain to the guy who yelled at me at my work dinner and to you, I am not sure what else I can do to satisfy you.

You’re not causing me pain. I’m just pointing out that this is the proverbial mountain out of a molehill. Sorry of that rankles you.

[Anonymous]

Most educated Catholics would not think PP was going to hell since a grave sin requires full knowledge and deliberate consent. A child from another religious tradition obviously wouldn't have the necessary "full knowledge" here.

I have to assume PP's parents were smart enough to know this since the denominations are so similar, so it was really unfortunate that they did not properly explain this and instead taught her to make jokes about what her neighbors consider sacred. No wonder she got called out on it at her dinner and again here.