Anyone following the viral Harvard University *Extension School* controversy?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

Aren't you guys supposed to be all about equity? Most people can't drop their lives for a on-campus masters.

Indeed. DCUMers while theoretically pining for a class-less society, cling like glue to their miserable fragments of social prestige.

I was unaware that honesty is a vestige of prestige.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We know he took the back door. He knows it. Harvard Lite.

Pathetic.

Harvard is selling out, that's what's pathetic. Cheapening their own brand.

Naw. It’s the representation on his part. He knows he didn’t do the real Harvard. He did Harvard Lite. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t represent it like you did the full Harvard.

Look if you know people like this you can figure out with a few questions what kind of program they actually did. Then you know what they know.

???

What's not understood? If you know people who say they went to Harvard and you ask what they studied, you will find out what program. If you think a degree from the extension school is "Harvard Lite" then you can sneer at them that it wasn't "the full Harvard." It's not a secret. I know people who have done these courses and they don't try to pretend it's anything else but they do say then went to Harvard (even if it was all online).

I can't imagine saying "I went to Harvard" if my degree was from the extension school. Look, the real sure way to know that someone went to Harvard is if they tell you they went to school in Boston.

Maybe I just hold myself to higher standards.

The people I know with these degrees have many degrees from lots of schools. They just decide to further learning in an area of interest, but they already have what you would consider full degrees from prestigious universities. They have law degrees, MBAs, etc but they wanted another notch in their belt, it's not really a big deal since it's not the only degree they have.

For folks going on and on about merit, this seems to be a fairly weak answer and an ambiguous standard.

Who do you think gets these degrees? It's usually older people who already have at least one degree or more already. Such as Rufo. Where would the con be? Arguably these degrees don't really offer much benefit to the students. Can you really change careers after a short course?

so all good with misrepresenting here, but not when other folks (allegedly) do it? Is that the standard?

What has been misrepresented? He has a degree from Harvard. You may just not be very impressed with it.

He has a graduate degree from the Extension School. When someone receives a graduate degree from Harvard, it is from a specific school @ Harvard, not from generic Harvard University.

It's still part of the university, even if you wish it wasn't.

Right. It is Harvard Extension School. I read a lot of CVs. Folks don't list "Master's Degree, Harvard University," they list the degree, the school issuing it, then Harvard University. IYKYK.

Or maybe that's the reason why some of these folks are at the extension school - they can't follow directions.

Ok, show us where Rufo's resume had this listed.

NP. Given the type of work he does, I don't know exactly what kind of "resume" he has (I'm just a regular guy with a normal job, I've never been a "Senior Fellow"), but he definitely lists it simply as "Harvard University" on his bios for the various groups he works with and where he's published:

https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://christopherrufo.com/about
https://www.city-journal.org/person/christopher-f-rufo
https://www.ncf.edu/about/leadership/board-of-trustees/

So not resumes just informal bios. And people really care about this?

He's a public figure. "Informal" bios are how he's introduced to the public not resumes. Personally, I think people should represent themselves honestly, so yeah I do care.

Especially when the person has put in a lot of effort to pointing out others' honesty or lack thereof.

Again, where is the lie?

I realize you are completely blind to the bad faith behavior of all right wing provocateurs like Rufo. But really? Are you this dumb?

Have you ever mocked Jill Biden for using “Dr.” as her title? Asking for a friend.

Biden has an Ed.D. from the University of Delaware so she can correctly call herself Dr.

You may not be aware of the back story here. Some GOPers go nuts that she requests to be called Dr. Biden. "She is not a doctor, blah blah blah who does she think she is." And yes, there are some folks who think the only doctors are MDs. But I'm fairly confident that GOP elite attending HYPSMs are not calling their professors by their first name. Maybe they say professor, but probably a lot also using doctor as many introduce themselves that way.

There are some folks who will not extend respect to any Democrat in any fashion. Heck, the former president couldn't even attend the inauguration of his opponent - total break with precedent for folks obsessed with originalism.

But which college? Be specific!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

Aren't you guys supposed to be all about equity? Most people can't drop their lives for a on-campus masters.

Who are “we guys?”

And what does this have to do with equity?

Bully for him for doing it. But he’s deliberately overselling his credentials while attacking another’s integrity. It’s a bad look. But all these right wingers act in bad faith, always. It’s just what they do.

Why is it an oversell, you've decided that some graduates aren't as worthy of the name?

he doesn't have a master's in government, he has it in extension studies. he appears to have dropped "government" now and says he got an ALM. The only ALM degree offered @ Harvard is through the extension studies program.

And? This changes what exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

First, HES classes are not all taught by Harvard professors.

Second, the Yale PA (assistant) program is being phased out. Last class graduates in 2026. That program is different than their PA (associate) program, which will continue.

Third, classes offered at night does not automatically = extension school, e.g., Georgetown Law has a track for night students. The time of day a program is offered doesn't determine the type of program.

Fourth, Columbia's version of HES is the School of General Studies. Unlike Harvard, believe one can transfer credits from CU GS to Columbia College. A lot of Columbia's General Studies program revolves around postbac students ISO medical school admissions.

In Rufo's situation, he took graduate classes through Harvard's Extension School, not the Kennedy School of Government or Harvard's Department of Government (FAS). Those are three separate master's degree programs (the latter two also offer PhD programs) and are to be identified as such.

I agree that Rufo was wrong purposely and misleading.

The Yale PA program is on probation. I don’t see anything that says it’s closing. Tuition About $80,000 a year, I doubt they want to let that go.

Harvard uses its own faculty or faculty just as worthy. It tends to focus on older students who work and wouldn’t want to be in day classes anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

First, HES classes are not all taught by Harvard professors.

Second, the Yale PA (assistant) program is being phased out. Last class graduates in 2026. That program is different than their PA (associate) program, which will continue.

Third, classes offered at night does not automatically = extension school, e.g., Georgetown Law has a track for night students. The time of day a program is offered doesn't determine the type of program.

Fourth, Columbia's version of HES is the School of General Studies. Unlike Harvard, believe one can transfer credits from CU GS to Columbia College. A lot of Columbia's General Studies program revolves around postbac students ISO medical school admissions.

In Rufo's situation, he took graduate classes through Harvard's Extension School, not the Kennedy School of Government or Harvard's Department of Government (FAS). Those are three separate master's degree programs (the latter two also offer PhD programs) and are to be identified as such.

I agree that Rufo was wrong purposely and misleading.

The Yale PA program is on probation. I don’t see anything that says it’s closing. Tuition About $80,000 a year, I doubt they want to let that go.

Harvard uses its own faculty or faculty just as worthy. It tends to focus on older students who work and wouldn’t want to be in day classes anyway.

"Faculty just as worthy"? Nope. 50% of the "instructors" at HES have no ties to Harvard. And I'd bet a very large percentage of the other 50% are rarely tenured professors at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

Aren't you guys supposed to be all about equity? Most people can't drop their lives for a on-campus masters.

Indeed. DCUMers while theoretically pining for a class-less society, cling like glue to their miserable fragments of social prestige.

Is this Chris? Why are you plagiarizing an Orwell line and trying to pass it off as your own with a DCUM edit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

There are no scholarships... It's a cash grab

Nearly all colleges offer this kind of education.

For which colleges that offer it is it a "cash grab", and for which is it a reasonable offer?

Please answer. But I know you won't.

What kind of gotcha is this?

No scholarships+ high cost is cash grab.

Make the degree free or cheap. This isn't complicated. Otherwise it's a cash grab.

Answer the damned question. Nearly all colleges offer this. For which ones is it a cash grab? All of them?

For the record HES offers financial aid and its tuition is half Harvard’s.

All of them and the point is, it's not making it accessible to more people.

Yes, a lot of online degrees are cash grabs, not only Harvard. Harvard should be running a better program.

The extension school is not an online degree program--it's a longstanding continuing/community education program. The actual grad schools at Harvard have their own reputable and strong on-line programs. The extension school is not part of that.

HES website says his masters was all online, except for one 2 week course.

Aren't you guys supposed to be all about equity? Most people can't drop their lives for a on-campus masters.

Indeed. DCUMers while theoretically pining for a class-less society, cling like glue to their miserable fragments of social prestige.

Is this Chris? Why are you plagiarizing an Orwell line and trying to pass it off as your own with a DCUM edit?

We know who the plagiarizers are... where's your hero now to take credit for other's work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds as though Harvard University is the one running the grift here, if one buys your assumption (which is probably incorrect) that their online programs are not legitimate.

+1000

DYK how many places run these programs? Columbia has one in general studies, believe same @ Penn. So many schools have them. Heck, does USDA still run an extension school? That said, they are extension programs.

Harvard’s extension school is over 100 years old and was created for the working people in Boston who couldn’t go to college during the day. They are all taught by Harvard professors

plenty of universities have these programs. Yale has a physicians assistant Program at night separate from the school working with themYale Medical school. Online classes and on-site requirements.

Columbia has night school classes in certain degrees where students go at their own pace. Stanford,Penn, Duke, Brown, Northwestern and many many more.

What is wrong with catering to non-traditional students who might want a change in career or to get a better job but can’t spend all day at school with 18 year olds.

Universities are in the business of education. It’s exactly what they’re doing.

First, HES classes are not all taught by Harvard professors.

Second, the Yale PA (assistant) program is being phased out. Last class graduates in 2026. That program is different than their PA (associate) program, which will continue.

Third, classes offered at night does not automatically = extension school, e.g., Georgetown Law has a track for night students. The time of day a program is offered doesn't determine the type of program.

Fourth, Columbia's version of HES is the School of General Studies. Unlike Harvard, believe one can transfer credits from CU GS to Columbia College. A lot of Columbia's General Studies program revolves around postbac students ISO medical school admissions.

In Rufo's situation, he took graduate classes through Harvard's Extension School, not the Kennedy School of Government or Harvard's Department of Government (FAS). Those are three separate master's degree programs (the latter two also offer PhD programs) and are to be identified as such.

I agree that Rufo was wrong purposely and misleading.

The Yale PA program is on probation. I don’t see anything that says it’s closing. Tuition About $80,000 a year, I doubt they want to let that go.

Harvard uses its own faculty or faculty just as worthy. It tends to focus on older students who work and wouldn’t want to be in day classes anyway.

"Faculty just as worthy"? Nope. 50% of the "instructors" at HES have no ties to Harvard. And I'd bet a very large percentage of the other 50% are rarely tenured professors at Harvard.

You should write a strong worded letter to Harvard to voice all your concerns. I'm sure they will care deeply for a hot second as it gets tossed into the recycle bin.

[Anonymous]

Looks like Harvard got some splash back on this. The HES Professor who mocked HES grads for thinking they have a Harvard degree has now been asked to “clarify:”

https://x.com/Jenniferhochsc2/status/1745912823689973880?s=20

I was asked to clarify, and am glad to do so: HES courses are Harvard U courses (often the same as in FAS, as for my courses). HES bachelor’s and master’s degrees are Harvard U degrees. HES is a school in Harvard U analogous to other schools. HES students are Harvard U students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Harvard got some splash back on this. The HES Professor who mocked HES grads for thinking they have a Harvard degree has now been asked to “clarify:”

https://x.com/Jenniferhochsc2/status/1745912823689973880?s=20

I was asked to clarify, and am glad to do so: HES courses are Harvard U courses (often the same as in FAS, as for my courses). HES bachelor’s and master’s degrees are Harvard U degrees. HES is a school in Harvard U analogous to other schools. HES students are Harvard U students

So Harvard has basically open admission if you’re willing to take online classes. Ok then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Harvard got some splash back on this. The HES Professor who mocked HES grads for thinking they have a Harvard degree has now been asked to “clarify:”

https://x.com/Jenniferhochsc2/status/1745912823689973880?s=20

I was asked to clarify, and am glad to do so: HES courses are Harvard U courses (often the same as in FAS, as for my courses). HES bachelor’s and master’s degrees are Harvard U degrees. HES is a school in Harvard U analogous to other schools. HES students are Harvard U students

Hilarious. What a clown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Harvard got some splash back on this. The HES Professor who mocked HES grads for thinking they have a Harvard degree has now been asked to “clarify:”

https://x.com/Jenniferhochsc2/status/1745912823689973880?s=20

I was asked to clarify, and am glad to do so: HES courses are Harvard U courses (often the same as in FAS, as for my courses). HES bachelor’s and master’s degrees are Harvard U degrees. HES is a school in Harvard U analogous to other schools. HES students are Harvard U students

How lovely for Rufo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Harvard got some splash back on this. The HES Professor who mocked HES grads for thinking they have a Harvard degree has now been asked to “clarify:”

https://x.com/Jenniferhochsc2/status/1745912823689973880?s=20

I was asked to clarify, and am glad to do so: HES courses are Harvard U courses (often the same as in FAS, as for my courses). HES bachelor’s and master’s degrees are Harvard U degrees. HES is a school in Harvard U analogous to other schools. HES students are Harvard U students

She’s still posting non-apology apologies:

https://x.com/jenniferhochsc2/status/1746099757766824374?s=61&t=0L5nhzrbcJwFfJRjPVpsvA

On this maelstrom, mainly to HES students/staff: I regret that you got dragged into a dispute with nothing to do with you, that caused distress.I endorse and admire HES’s promotion of an inclusive, engaged, ambitious student body. I'm sorry my writing seemed to suggest otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Who cares?? Gay is thankfully out and it has NOTHING to do with her race. You really need to stop it already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Harvard got some splash back on this. The HES Professor who mocked HES grads for thinking they have a Harvard degree has now been asked to “clarify:”

https://x.com/Jenniferhochsc2/status/1745912823689973880?s=20

I was asked to clarify, and am glad to do so: HES courses are Harvard U courses (often the same as in FAS, as for my courses). HES bachelor’s and master’s degrees are Harvard U degrees. HES is a school in Harvard U analogous to other schools. HES students are Harvard U students

Hilarious. What a clown.

Yes, at this point I think many of us are aware that Harvard is no longer deserving of the prestige it used to have. Very clownish.

Like I’ve said for the entire thread. HES is Harvard. An ALM from Harvard is truthfully and correctly described as a masters degree from Harvard.