How does your redshirted kid feel now that she/he is older?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

New York as a whole did not put the kibash on it. Only NYC public schools did. All the New York City private schools have a 9/1 cutoff. the NY public schools in the suburbs are generally 12/31, but allow redshirting. The private schools in the suburbs have varying cutoffs.

What this means in NYC is that any parent who wants to redshirt a fall child will go the private school route if they have the means to do so. The data in NYC is exactly the same: kids with birthdays in the last two months before the cut off are diagnosed with learning disabilities at higher rates. https://ny.chalkbeat.org/2020/2/4/21178551/your-child-s-birth-month-matters-nyc-students-born-in-november-and-december-are-classified-with-lear?_amp=true

The youngest kids in the grade will always be more likely to he at a disadvantage. The data clearly shows this, and shows that classrooms don’t accommodate the full 12-14 month range of its students, pariticwlry the younger ones. Some young kids won’t be impacted, and some will. It is fair to let the parents decide what to do with a child who falls into this range.

In my sons current 4s class with a 12/31 cutoff, there are 11 kids- 5 kids are young with fall bd days. 2 have decided to do jr k (including us) and 3 decided to have their kids move on to K because they felt they were ready. In addition, his class also has 2 current redshirts repeating 4s who turned 5 last fall. It’s pretty common, and if redshirting gives some kids the time they need to mature to cooperate better in the classroom that decision should be up to the school and parents.

Infuriating.

It is. It is why NYC is such an outlier in not allowing redshirting, and why very few other districts nationally have taken such a rigid and problematic approach.

Why is it infuriating? If the conclusion is that classrooms can't accommodate the youngest in a room with a 12-14 month range, what does redshirting solve? There will always be kids who are youngest in class. With red shirting, the potential range within the same class is even wider, making it even harder to teach to both ends of the age spectrum represented.

Fwiw my dd has a late November birthday and is thriving in her NYC public elementary school despite turning five several months into kindergarten. She's in older ES now.

DP. It's infuriating because it is totally inequitable and frankly unfair to certain kids regardless of where they fall on the social-economic spectrum. Every kid is different, but some kids come to school with challenges, whether that involves coming from poverty or a family that does not speak English or never having had high-quality pre-school, or having ADHD or whatever reason, starting school with those challenges puts kids at a disadvantage and is compounded by being the youngest (especially in NYC where kids are only 4). It is well established that the youngest in the grade are more likely to be diagnosed with learning disabilities or ADHD. Lower-income families have fewer resources to address those issues. A rigid cutoff that includes 4-year-olds in kindergarten is setting way too many kids up to fail. Are you aware that there's a world out there that doesn't just revolve around your superstar elementary schooler with a November birthday? This isn't about gaining an advantage; it's about being realistic about where kids are developmentally and whether they are able to be successful when they start school.

+1. And people like the PP almost always have a daughter they are gloating about being so mature and ahead of the others when they are young when the data clearly shows that boys are at risk.

What are the unique risks for boys? Is it being smaller for sports? Or are there some other issues?

Much more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD, much more likely to drop out.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

New York as a whole did not put the kibash on it. Only NYC public schools did. All the New York City private schools have a 9/1 cutoff. the NY public schools in the suburbs are generally 12/31, but allow redshirting. The private schools in the suburbs have varying cutoffs.

What this means in NYC is that any parent who wants to redshirt a fall child will go the private school route if they have the means to do so. The data in NYC is exactly the same: kids with birthdays in the last two months before the cut off are diagnosed with learning disabilities at higher rates. https://ny.chalkbeat.org/2020/2/4/21178551/your-child-s-birth-month-matters-nyc-students-born-in-november-and-december-are-classified-with-lear?_amp=true

The youngest kids in the grade will always be more likely to he at a disadvantage. The data clearly shows this, and shows that classrooms don’t accommodate the full 12-14 month range of its students, pariticwlry the younger ones. Some young kids won’t be impacted, and some will. It is fair to let the parents decide what to do with a child who falls into this range.

In my sons current 4s class with a 12/31 cutoff, there are 11 kids- 5 kids are young with fall bd days. 2 have decided to do jr k (including us) and 3 decided to have their kids move on to K because they felt they were ready. In addition, his class also has 2 current redshirts repeating 4s who turned 5 last fall. It’s pretty common, and if redshirting gives some kids the time they need to mature to cooperate better in the classroom that decision should be up to the school and parents.

Infuriating.

It is. It is why NYC is such an outlier in not allowing redshirting, and why very few other districts nationally have taken such a rigid and problematic approach.

Why is it infuriating? If the conclusion is that classrooms can't accommodate the youngest in a room with a 12-14 month range, what does redshirting solve? There will always be kids who are youngest in class. With red shirting, the potential range within the same class is even wider, making it even harder to teach to both ends of the age spectrum represented.

Fwiw my dd has a late November birthday and is thriving in her NYC public elementary school despite turning five several months into kindergarten. She's in older ES now.

DP. It's infuriating because it is totally inequitable and frankly unfair to certain kids regardless of where they fall on the social-economic spectrum. Every kid is different, but some kids come to school with challenges, whether that involves coming from poverty or a family that does not speak English or never having had high-quality pre-school, or having ADHD or whatever reason, starting school with those challenges puts kids at a disadvantage and is compounded by being the youngest (especially in NYC where kids are only 4). It is well established that the youngest in the grade are more likely to be diagnosed with learning disabilities or ADHD. Lower-income families have fewer resources to address those issues. A rigid cutoff that includes 4-year-olds in kindergarten is setting way too many kids up to fail. Are you aware that there's a world out there that doesn't just revolve around your superstar elementary schooler with a November birthday? This isn't about gaining an advantage; it's about being realistic about where kids are developmentally and whether they are able to be successful when they start school.

+1. And people like the PP almost always have a daughter they are gloating about being so mature and ahead of the others when they are young when the data clearly shows that boys are at risk.

What are the unique risks for boys? Is it being smaller for sports? Or are there some other issues?

What's the obsession with sports? If you actually care about this issue here's a start:

"The researchers found those youngest in a class were more likely to experience low educational achievement, substance misuse disorder, and depression in later life"

https://scitechdaily.com/being-young-in-a-school-class-puts-a-child-at-a-long-term-disadvantage-compared-to-their-older-peers/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give you a different perspective - my DS is a late summer birthday and we did not redshirt him. He has always done well academically and we could tell when he was in preschool that he could handle a full day of kindergarten. He was ready. And he was tall for his age. So we didn 't redshirt. Well, now he's in high school, and it turns out he really likes sports, and he is the youngest and smallest on teams. We really do wish that we had redshirted him. Being the youngest can be socially awkward with friends too -- everyone gets licenses and hits physical milestones ahead of you in general. If you're even considering redshirting than I encourage you to just do it. Also, if you go the private school route, everyone with a summer birthday is held for the following year. Another thing I wish we'd realized. Fortunately, he's done absolutely fine academically and he's tall for his age.

It’s a hard decision. You should not kick yourself. I am sure your kid is going to thrive, he’s got a thoughtful parent!

It’s also a hard decision because down the road is when many students’ learning disabilities or ADHD/ASD symptoms emerge. But being 12 months older doing the material, or class schedule, or workload doesn’t necessarily help them figure out how to manage those symptoms. Specific coaching, medicine, and/or a smaller class size w attentive teachers does.

So redshirting a 6 yo or later in school isn’t really the solution there. Don’t beat yourself up that you should have done that. SN kids can by a mystery for a while and a heavier lift.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'll give you a different perspective - my DS is a late summer birthday and we did not redshirt him. He has always done well academically and we could tell when he was in preschool that he could handle a full day of kindergarten. He was ready. And he was tall for his age. So we didn 't redshirt. Well, now he's in high school, and it turns out he really likes sports, and he is the youngest and smallest on teams. We really do wish that we had redshirted him. Being the youngest can be socially awkward with friends too -- everyone gets licenses and hits physical milestones ahead of you in general. If you're even considering redshirting than I encourage you to just do it. Also, if you go the private school route, everyone with a summer birthday is held for the following year. Another thing I wish we'd realized. Fortunately, he's done absolutely fine academically and he's tall for his age.

I have no regrets not holding my child back. Their sport is by age so it does not matter what grade they are in and academics for us are the priority. Who cares if they get the license first. Mine got into advanced music and the sports team no issue as the youngest.

Yeah you’ve posted 27 times on this thread, *we know* your perspective.

No different from those pushing everyone to hold back their kids to make them better and stronger for sports.

No one is doing that.

Why are you so offended that some people made a different decision for their kids than you did? What impact does it make on you or your kid?

DP here. I have a child with an August birthday that started K on time. There are kids that redshirted and are a full year older than him. I do resent that they have an easier time with some of the academics and are better in sports because they are older and taller. My kid does pretty well especially considering his age, but I have to remind him that other kids are older, so he can’t always compare his abilities to theirs directly.

Your message to your kid should be to ignore what others are doing, and focus on herself.

As others have pointed out, elementary school isn't a competition.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

New York as a whole did not put the kibash on it. Only NYC public schools did. All the New York City private schools have a 9/1 cutoff. the NY public schools in the suburbs are generally 12/31, but allow redshirting. The private schools in the suburbs have varying cutoffs.

What this means in NYC is that any parent who wants to redshirt a fall child will go the private school route if they have the means to do so. The data in NYC is exactly the same: kids with birthdays in the last two months before the cut off are diagnosed with learning disabilities at higher rates. https://ny.chalkbeat.org/2020/2/4/21178551/your-child-s-birth-month-matters-nyc-students-born-in-november-and-december-are-classified-with-lear?_amp=true

The youngest kids in the grade will always be more likely to he at a disadvantage. The data clearly shows this, and shows that classrooms don’t accommodate the full 12-14 month range of its students, pariticwlry the younger ones. Some young kids won’t be impacted, and some will. It is fair to let the parents decide what to do with a child who falls into this range.

In my sons current 4s class with a 12/31 cutoff, there are 11 kids- 5 kids are young with fall bd days. 2 have decided to do jr k (including us) and 3 decided to have their kids move on to K because they felt they were ready. In addition, his class also has 2 current redshirts repeating 4s who turned 5 last fall. It’s pretty common, and if redshirting gives some kids the time they need to mature to cooperate better in the classroom that decision should be up to the school and parents.

Infuriating.

It is. It is why NYC is such an outlier in not allowing redshirting, and why very few other districts nationally have taken such a rigid and problematic approach.

Why is it infuriating? If the conclusion is that classrooms can't accommodate the youngest in a room with a 12-14 month range, what does redshirting solve? There will always be kids who are youngest in class. With red shirting, the potential range within the same class is even wider, making it even harder to teach to both ends of the age spectrum represented.

Fwiw my dd has a late November birthday and is thriving in her NYC public elementary school despite turning five several months into kindergarten. She's in older ES now.

DP. It's infuriating because it is totally inequitable and frankly unfair to certain kids regardless of where they fall on the social-economic spectrum. Every kid is different, but some kids come to school with challenges, whether that involves coming from poverty or a family that does not speak English or never having had high-quality pre-school, or having ADHD or whatever reason, starting school with those challenges puts kids at a disadvantage and is compounded by being the youngest (especially in NYC where kids are only 4). It is well established that the youngest in the grade are more likely to be diagnosed with learning disabilities or ADHD. Lower-income families have fewer resources to address those issues. A rigid cutoff that includes 4-year-olds in kindergarten is setting way too many kids up to fail. Are you aware that there's a world out there that doesn't just revolve around your superstar elementary schooler with a November birthday? This isn't about gaining an advantage; it's about being realistic about where kids are developmentally and whether they are able to be successful when they start school.

Yes, well said.

There isn’t much evidence that supports the idea that rigid cutoffs benefit any kids, and there is evidence extrapolated from the ADHD studies that flexibility can help. Anti-redshirt posters take the idea of rigid cutoffs being the best as some sort of gospel truth, but can never come up with any hard evidence that shows why they view that rigidity as so beneficial. And NYC has been this rigid and this much of an outlier for years: if a rigid approach to redshirting was so educationally good, and led to better outcomes, we should have the comparative data to show it by now. There should be several piles of data showing NYC is right. But we have nothing.

There is a reason NYC is such an outlier and it doesn’t reflect well on the NYC school system.

I have strong feelings about making individual decisions about redshirting regardless of the jurisdiction. However, in the case of NYC schools, this issue demonstrates a perfect example of why I loathe so many "equity' based policies. As with many other issues, "equity' is addressed not by removing barriers faced by marginalized populations but by trying to ensure that other populations don't get ahead. There is a reason families with higher incomes can redshirt their kids - they can pay for childcare or send them to private school. They do that if they have concerns about their kids being ready for kindergarten (although some do it for an advantage). Instead of prohibiting redshirting, why not give families who can't afford it the resources they need to delay kindergarten for a year until their young for the grade child (especially boys) is more likely to be successful? As a parent of a child who was once a young, immature, ADHD youngest for the grade kid, keeping him home for a year would have been much easier than dealing with evaluations, conferences, 504s, and other measures he needed. It's a benefit to everyone - teachers, other students, and families that kids start school when they are ready. Once a kid feels like a failure and starts hating school, there is no going back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Non redshirting culture:
1/12 or 8.3% of kids have a bday each month 8.3% Sept 2000
.
.
8.3% August 2001.

Redshirting culture schools:
4% March 2000
4% April 2000
4% May 2000
8.3% June 2000
8.3% July 2000
8.3% August 2000
8.3% Sept 2000
8.3% Oct 2000
8.3% Nov 2000
8.3% Dec 2000
8.3% Jan 2001
8.3% Feb 2001
4.3% March 2001
4.3% April 2001
4.3% May 2001
0% June 2001
0% July 2001
0% Aug 2001

Fun fact but statistically July, Aug, and Sept birthdays are slightly over-represented in the US. Someone on reddit made a nice graphic from SSA data

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/13ro2fw/oc_how_common_in_your_birthday/

It's possible that age cut offs have been designed around this odd fact. You can get the raw data here

https://github.com/fivethirtyeight/data/tree/master/births

So bump up that redshirting composite to 10% per summer month and you have your starting class age 6, 30-40% redshirted kids.
Even more pronounced.

And yes, having my children in the summer was best for my job, career and spring/fall travel seasons.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

New York as a whole did not put the kibash on it. Only NYC public schools did. All the New York City private schools have a 9/1 cutoff. the NY public schools in the suburbs are generally 12/31, but allow redshirting. The private schools in the suburbs have varying cutoffs.

What this means in NYC is that any parent who wants to redshirt a fall child will go the private school route if they have the means to do so. The data in NYC is exactly the same: kids with birthdays in the last two months before the cut off are diagnosed with learning disabilities at higher rates. https://ny.chalkbeat.org/2020/2/4/21178551/your-child-s-birth-month-matters-nyc-students-born-in-november-and-december-are-classified-with-lear?_amp=true

The youngest kids in the grade will always be more likely to he at a disadvantage. The data clearly shows this, and shows that classrooms don’t accommodate the full 12-14 month range of its students, pariticwlry the younger ones. Some young kids won’t be impacted, and some will. It is fair to let the parents decide what to do with a child who falls into this range.

In my sons current 4s class with a 12/31 cutoff, there are 11 kids- 5 kids are young with fall bd days. 2 have decided to do jr k (including us) and 3 decided to have their kids move on to K because they felt they were ready. In addition, his class also has 2 current redshirts repeating 4s who turned 5 last fall. It’s pretty common, and if redshirting gives some kids the time they need to mature to cooperate better in the classroom that decision should be up to the school and parents.

Infuriating.

It is. It is why NYC is such an outlier in not allowing redshirting, and why very few other districts nationally have taken such a rigid and problematic approach.

Why is it infuriating? If the conclusion is that classrooms can't accommodate the youngest in a room with a 12-14 month range, what does redshirting solve? There will always be kids who are youngest in class. With red shirting, the potential range within the same class is even wider, making it even harder to teach to both ends of the age spectrum represented.

Fwiw my dd has a late November birthday and is thriving in her NYC public elementary school despite turning five several months into kindergarten. She's in older ES now.

Why would that be the case is the private schools in NYC are handling it just fine, and other public districts across the country are handling it just fine as well?

Lol.

You mean private schools with 16 students per lower school class can better differentiate than public schools with 25 students per classroom elementary school?

And 30 in middle school classrooms…
And 35 in HS classrooms…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give you a different perspective - my DS is a late summer birthday and we did not redshirt him. He has always done well academically and we could tell when he was in preschool that he could handle a full day of kindergarten. He was ready. And he was tall for his age. So we didn 't redshirt. Well, now he's in high school, and it turns out he really likes sports, and he is the youngest and smallest on teams. We really do wish that we had redshirted him. Being the youngest can be socially awkward with friends too -- everyone gets licenses and hits physical milestones ahead of you in general. If you're even considering redshirting than I encourage you to just do it. Also, if you go the private school route, everyone with a summer birthday is held for the following year. Another thing I wish we'd realized. Fortunately, he's done absolutely fine academically and he's tall for his age.

I have no regrets not holding my child back. Their sport is by age so it does not matter what grade they are in and academics for us are the priority. Who cares if they get the license first. Mine got into advanced music and the sports team no issue as the youngest.

Yeah you’ve posted 27 times on this thread, *we know* your perspective.

No different from those pushing everyone to hold back their kids to make them better and stronger for sports.

No one is doing that.

Why are you so offended that some people made a different decision for their kids than you did? What impact does it make on you or your kid?

Everyone in CA, TX and FL does it for those reasons. Biggest kid makes the varsity team. Oldest kid is more confident and organized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give you a different perspective - my DS is a late summer birthday and we did not redshirt him. He has always done well academically and we could tell when he was in preschool that he could handle a full day of kindergarten. He was ready. And he was tall for his age. So we didn 't redshirt. Well, now he's in high school, and it turns out he really likes sports, and he is the youngest and smallest on teams. We really do wish that we had redshirted him. Being the youngest can be socially awkward with friends too -- everyone gets licenses and hits physical milestones ahead of you in general. If you're even considering redshirting than I encourage you to just do it. Also, if you go the private school route, everyone with a summer birthday is held for the following year. Another thing I wish we'd realized. Fortunately, he's done absolutely fine academically and he's tall for his age.

I have no regrets not holding my child back. Their sport is by age so it does not matter what grade they are in and academics for us are the priority. Who cares if they get the license first. Mine got into advanced music and the sports team no issue as the youngest.

Yeah you’ve posted 27 times on this thread, *we know* your perspective.

No different from those pushing everyone to hold back their kids to make them better and stronger for sports.

No one is doing that.

Why are you so offended that some people made a different decision for their kids than you did? What impact does it make on you or your kid?

DP here. I have a child with an August birthday that started K on time. There are kids that redshirted and are a full year older than him. I do resent that they have an easier time with some of the academics and are better in sports because they are older and taller. My kid does pretty well especially considering his age, but I have to remind him that other kids are older, so he can’t always compare his abilities to theirs directly.

And there it is, the zero-sum blood sport approach to education. Not everyone approaches education and parenting as this vicious cage match.

Thank goodness those other families “got theirs” and redshirted their kids so those kids would be oldest and leaders in the class! Zero sum game indeed. Take what’s yours!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give you a different perspective - my DS is a late summer birthday and we did not redshirt him. He has always done well academically and we could tell when he was in preschool that he could handle a full day of kindergarten. He was ready. And he was tall for his age. So we didn 't redshirt. Well, now he's in high school, and it turns out he really likes sports, and he is the youngest and smallest on teams. We really do wish that we had redshirted him. Being the youngest can be socially awkward with friends too -- everyone gets licenses and hits physical milestones ahead of you in general. If you're even considering redshirting than I encourage you to just do it. Also, if you go the private school route, everyone with a summer birthday is held for the following year. Another thing I wish we'd realized. Fortunately, he's done absolutely fine academically and he's tall for his age.

It’s a hard decision. You should not kick yourself. I am sure your kid is going to thrive, he’s got a thoughtful parent!

It’s also a hard decision because down the road is when many students’ learning disabilities or ADHD/ASD symptoms emerge. But being 12 months older doing the material, or class schedule, or workload doesn’t necessarily help them figure out how to manage those symptoms. Specific coaching, medicine, and/or a smaller class size w attentive teachers does.

So redshirting a 6 yo or later in school isn’t really the solution there. Don’t beat yourself up that you should have done that. SN kids can by a mystery for a while and a heavier lift.

In the context of ADHD it can really help, though. ADHD clinicians have a concept of relative brain age with respect to neurotypical kids. It is simply not true that additional time can’t help with symptom management: it is known and accepted that it does in some cases. It isn’t going to work for all kids with ADHD but it will definitely help some.

It is no surprise that the one country in the world that systematically gives parents a great deal of leeway in deciding K entrance age is also the one country that doesn’t show the relative age issue with ADHD diagnoses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give you a different perspective - my DS is a late summer birthday and we did not redshirt him. He has always done well academically and we could tell when he was in preschool that he could handle a full day of kindergarten. He was ready. And he was tall for his age. So we didn 't redshirt. Well, now he's in high school, and it turns out he really likes sports, and he is the youngest and smallest on teams. We really do wish that we had redshirted him. Being the youngest can be socially awkward with friends too -- everyone gets licenses and hits physical milestones ahead of you in general. If you're even considering redshirting than I encourage you to just do it. Also, if you go the private school route, everyone with a summer birthday is held for the following year. Another thing I wish we'd realized. Fortunately, he's done absolutely fine academically and he's tall for his age.

I have no regrets not holding my child back. Their sport is by age so it does not matter what grade they are in and academics for us are the priority. Who cares if they get the license first. Mine got into advanced music and the sports team no issue as the youngest.

Yeah you’ve posted 27 times on this thread, *we know* your perspective.

No different from those pushing everyone to hold back their kids to make them better and stronger for sports.

No one is doing that.

Why are you so offended that some people made a different decision for their kids than you did? What impact does it make on you or your kid?

Everyone in CA, TX and FL does it for those reasons. Biggest kid makes the varsity team. Oldest kid is more confident and organized.

Jeff needs to ban the anti-redshirt crazies again, I see.

[Anonymous]

August birthday son with dyslexia. So so glad we redshirted. He needed the extra year to help him learn to read. It also helps that he’s not a big/tall guy. He is in the middle of the group height wise at 9. Fits right in. I can’t imagine him being with the 4th graders this year. He’d be tiny compared to them and since he is still working on reading and writing, behind.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

New York as a whole did not put the kibash on it. Only NYC public schools did. All the New York City private schools have a 9/1 cutoff. the NY public schools in the suburbs are generally 12/31, but allow redshirting. The private schools in the suburbs have varying cutoffs.

What this means in NYC is that any parent who wants to redshirt a fall child will go the private school route if they have the means to do so. The data in NYC is exactly the same: kids with birthdays in the last two months before the cut off are diagnosed with learning disabilities at higher rates. https://ny.chalkbeat.org/2020/2/4/21178551/your-child-s-birth-month-matters-nyc-students-born-in-november-and-december-are-classified-with-lear?_amp=true

The youngest kids in the grade will always be more likely to he at a disadvantage. The data clearly shows this, and shows that classrooms don’t accommodate the full 12-14 month range of its students, pariticwlry the younger ones. Some young kids won’t be impacted, and some will. It is fair to let the parents decide what to do with a child who falls into this range.

In my sons current 4s class with a 12/31 cutoff, there are 11 kids- 5 kids are young with fall bd days. 2 have decided to do jr k (including us) and 3 decided to have their kids move on to K because they felt they were ready. In addition, his class also has 2 current redshirts repeating 4s who turned 5 last fall. It’s pretty common, and if redshirting gives some kids the time they need to mature to cooperate better in the classroom that decision should be up to the school and parents.

Infuriating.

It is. It is why NYC is such an outlier in not allowing redshirting, and why very few other districts nationally have taken such a rigid and problematic approach.

Why is it infuriating? If the conclusion is that classrooms can't accommodate the youngest in a room with a 12-14 month range, what does redshirting solve? There will always be kids who are youngest in class. With red shirting, the potential range within the same class is even wider, making it even harder to teach to both ends of the age spectrum represented.

Fwiw my dd has a late November birthday and is thriving in her NYC public elementary school despite turning five several months into kindergarten. She's in older ES now.

DP. It's infuriating because it is totally inequitable and frankly unfair to certain kids regardless of where they fall on the social-economic spectrum. Every kid is different, but some kids come to school with challenges, whether that involves coming from poverty or a family that does not speak English or never having had high-quality pre-school, or having ADHD or whatever reason, starting school with those challenges puts kids at a disadvantage and is compounded by being the youngest (especially in NYC where kids are only 4). It is well established that the youngest in the grade are more likely to be diagnosed with learning disabilities or ADHD. Lower-income families have fewer resources to address those issues. A rigid cutoff that includes 4-year-olds in kindergarten is setting way too many kids up to fail. Are you aware that there's a world out there that doesn't just revolve around your superstar elementary schooler with a November birthday? This isn't about gaining an advantage; it's about being realistic about where kids are developmentally and whether they are able to be successful when they start school.

Yes, well said.

There isn’t much evidence that supports the idea that rigid cutoffs benefit any kids, and there is evidence extrapolated from the ADHD studies that flexibility can help. Anti-redshirt posters take the idea of rigid cutoffs being the best as some sort of gospel truth, but can never come up with any hard evidence that shows why they view that rigidity as so beneficial. And NYC has been this rigid and this much of an outlier for years: if a rigid approach to redshirting was so educationally good, and led to better outcomes, we should have the comparative data to show it by now. There should be several piles of data showing NYC is right. But we have nothing.

There is a reason NYC is such an outlier and it doesn’t reflect well on the NYC school system.

I have strong feelings about making individual decisions about redshirting regardless of the jurisdiction. However, in the case of NYC schools, this issue demonstrates a perfect example of why I loathe so many "equity' based policies. As with many other issues, "equity' is addressed not by removing barriers faced by marginalized populations but by trying to ensure that other populations don't get ahead. There is a reason families with higher incomes can redshirt their kids - they can pay for childcare or send them to private school. They do that if they have concerns about their kids being ready for kindergarten (although some do it for an advantage). Instead of prohibiting redshirting, why not give families who can't afford it the resources they need to delay kindergarten for a year until their young for the grade child (especially boys) is more likely to be successful? As a parent of a child who was once a young, immature, ADHD youngest for the grade kid, keeping him home for a year would have been much easier than dealing with evaluations, conferences, 504s, and other measures he needed. It's a benefit to everyone - teachers, other students, and families that kids start school when they are ready. Once a kid feels like a failure and starts hating school, there is no going back.

Well said. I think the answer should be more flexibility for everyone and supports for any kids that might benefit from extra time. The NYC fake rigidity is an inequitable disaster of a policy.

Redshirting happens because the school system is failing the younger kids in classes. We see this with the ADHD studies. I don’t blame parents for taking matters into their own hands where the system fails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

New York as a whole did not put the kibash on it. Only NYC public schools did. All the New York City private schools have a 9/1 cutoff. the NY public schools in the suburbs are generally 12/31, but allow redshirting. The private schools in the suburbs have varying cutoffs.

What this means in NYC is that any parent who wants to redshirt a fall child will go the private school route if they have the means to do so. The data in NYC is exactly the same: kids with birthdays in the last two months before the cut off are diagnosed with learning disabilities at higher rates. https://ny.chalkbeat.org/2020/2/4/21178551/your-child-s-birth-month-matters-nyc-students-born-in-november-and-december-are-classified-with-lear?_amp=true

The youngest kids in the grade will always be more likely to he at a disadvantage. The data clearly shows this, and shows that classrooms don’t accommodate the full 12-14 month range of its students, pariticwlry the younger ones. Some young kids won’t be impacted, and some will. It is fair to let the parents decide what to do with a child who falls into this range.

In my sons current 4s class with a 12/31 cutoff, there are 11 kids- 5 kids are young with fall bd days. 2 have decided to do jr k (including us) and 3 decided to have their kids move on to K because they felt they were ready. In addition, his class also has 2 current redshirts repeating 4s who turned 5 last fall. It’s pretty common, and if redshirting gives some kids the time they need to mature to cooperate better in the classroom that decision should be up to the school and parents.

Infuriating.

It is. It is why NYC is such an outlier in not allowing redshirting, and why very few other districts nationally have taken such a rigid and problematic approach.

Why is it infuriating? If the conclusion is that classrooms can't accommodate the youngest in a room with a 12-14 month range, what does redshirting solve? There will always be kids who are youngest in class. With red shirting, the potential range within the same class is even wider, making it even harder to teach to both ends of the age spectrum represented.

Fwiw my dd has a late November birthday and is thriving in her NYC public elementary school despite turning five several months into kindergarten. She's in older ES now.

DP. It's infuriating because it is totally inequitable and frankly unfair to certain kids regardless of where they fall on the social-economic spectrum. Every kid is different, but some kids come to school with challenges, whether that involves coming from poverty or a family that does not speak English or never having had high-quality pre-school, or having ADHD or whatever reason, starting school with those challenges puts kids at a disadvantage and is compounded by being the youngest (especially in NYC where kids are only 4). It is well established that the youngest in the grade are more likely to be diagnosed with learning disabilities or ADHD. Lower-income families have fewer resources to address those issues. A rigid cutoff that includes 4-year-olds in kindergarten is setting way too many kids up to fail. Are you aware that there's a world out there that doesn't just revolve around your superstar elementary schooler with a November birthday? This isn't about gaining an advantage; it's about being realistic about where kids are developmentally and whether they are able to be successful when they start school.

+1. And people like the PP almost always have a daughter they are gloating about being so mature and ahead of the others when they are young when the data clearly shows that boys are at risk.

What are the unique risks for boys? Is it being smaller for sports? Or are there some other issues?

Much more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD, much more likely to drop out.

Sounds like NCLB and Common Core testing really made school worse for everyone.

Tons of testing to get on a certain track and prove to the govt something. Too much material to cover too quickly in k-8. Took away daily gym class and two recessed. Art is only once a week. Math is 90 minutes a day half w screens; same for reading.

Thus worried parents ramp up the redshirting and tutoring and grooming.
Kids aren’t learning, just going through material and tests at breakneck speeds.
Worse is they may never slow down enough to figure out what they really enjoy doing or studying.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll give you a different perspective - my DS is a late summer birthday and we did not redshirt him. He has always done well academically and we could tell when he was in preschool that he could handle a full day of kindergarten. He was ready. And he was tall for his age. So we didn 't redshirt. Well, now he's in high school, and it turns out he really likes sports, and he is the youngest and smallest on teams. We really do wish that we had redshirted him. Being the youngest can be socially awkward with friends too -- everyone gets licenses and hits physical milestones ahead of you in general. If you're even considering redshirting than I encourage you to just do it. Also, if you go the private school route, everyone with a summer birthday is held for the following year. Another thing I wish we'd realized. Fortunately, he's done absolutely fine academically and he's tall for his age.

I have no regrets not holding my child back. Their sport is by age so it does not matter what grade they are in and academics for us are the priority. Who cares if they get the license first. Mine got into advanced music and the sports team no issue as the youngest.

Yeah you’ve posted 27 times on this thread, *we know* your perspective.

No different from those pushing everyone to hold back their kids to make them better and stronger for sports.

No one is doing that.

Why are you so offended that some people made a different decision for their kids than you did? What impact does it make on you or your kid?

Everyone in CA, TX and FL does it for those reasons. Biggest kid makes the varsity team. Oldest kid is more confident and organized.

This only matters to the subset of parents who care if their kids make the varsity team or not. Most parents don't care about this.

We didn't redshirt our kid, even though he has a birthday 2 days before the cutoff. But we did have him repeat 8th grade, after his middle school years were such a dumpster fire during covid. Nothing to do with sports, and it was the best decision we could have made for him.