Ralph Yarl: Sweet, young teen shot trying to pick up siblings

[Anonymous]

Yeah there's no doubt he's going to get off because prosecutors have to prove that he was not scared. Okay, try to prove that any case. Any stand your ground laws? You can pretty much kill anyone for any reason and just say you were scared

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Lots of people lamenting the racism of the homeowner hete, but I guarantee that not a single one of the white or Asian people living in a wealthy DC suburb would have opened the door if they saw Ralph Yarl on the other side of it. Not one of you would have. You lament the racism but you are as racist as this homeowner was.

I'm betting that Yarl would have preferred an unopened door to being shot over. Your statement makes no sense.

+1. I'd advise my elderly parents to not open the door to a stranger. It wouldn't occur to me to advise them to shoot the person for ringing the doorbell.

This poster is being disingenuous to pretend the guy had only one option. And the sick thing is, so many people especially gun nuts, will actually take this argument and run with it.

+2
Sure, let’s play that out: No one answers the door.
Kid calls his mom and says ‘mom no one answering door.’
She says ‘that’s weird are you at the house with the concrete steps?’
He says ‘no…wait what’s that address again?’ He gets back in his car and finds the right house.

This is normal life. This is every other country. This is what everyone should expect to happen. Instead we are all now living in fear of guns around every corner. We need a ‘the only thing we have to fear is fear itself’ moment from our leadership to get this gun crisis under control. We are living in absurdity.

+1. Agreed.

I am not saying the shooter had only one option. But he claims that the victim was trying to open his door. The victim had left his cell phone at home. I don’t have a gun and would never fire a shot in this situation. I would, however, be terrified if someone was trying to open my door late at night. We recently had a home invasion/murder in our neighborhood and it puts you on edge.

From the NYT:

"Mr. Lester told a police officer after the shooting that he saw a Black male “pulling on the exterior storm door handle.” This was one of the few areas of disagreement: When interviewed by a detective, Ralph said that he only rang the doorbell and did not pull on the door. Within moments, Mr. Lester began shooting through the glass of the exterior storm door, afraid that a break-in was in progress, he told the police."

Trying to open an exterior storm door--if that happened--is different than trying to open the main door. I have an exterior storm door and people often open it to knock directly on my main door.

Also, the criminal complaint (linked to earlier in this thread) says that two DNA samples were taken from the exterior door. They seem to exclude both the homeowner and the person who's DNA was found on the porch (presumably Ralph).

+1 If you push the button to ring the bell and can’t hear if it actually rang, the next step would be to open the screen door to reach the door knocker or knock on the door.

+1

Whichever PP keeps talking about ‘being terrified someone opens your storm door’ pay attention when you ring someone’s doorbell that has a storm door. If you can’t hear it or they don’t come to the door, I bet you will instinctively try to storm door to knock on the actual door. But you probably won’t be shot since you aren’t a black teenage boy. That’s the only difference in this equation.

I really think the fact that it was 10pm at night is a huge factor that no one is mentioning.

+1 plus, the guy is so old -- dementia, etc on top of any racist views. We would not open our door if anyone knocked or rang the doorbell at night. We would call 911.

Old demented people should not be driving or allowed to have firearms.

PP here. I agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people lamenting the racism of the homeowner hete, but I guarantee that not a single one of the white or Asian people living in a wealthy DC suburb would have opened the door if they saw Ralph Yarl on the other side of it. Not one of you would have. You lament the racism but you are as racist as this homeowner was.

I'm betting that Yarl would have preferred an unopened door to being shot over. Your statement makes no sense.

+1. I'd advise my elderly parents to not open the door to a stranger. It wouldn't occur to me to advise them to shoot the person for ringing the doorbell.

This poster is being disingenuous to pretend the guy had only one option. And the sick thing is, so many people especially gun nuts, will actually take this argument and run with it.

+2
Sure, let’s play that out: No one answers the door.
Kid calls his mom and says ‘mom no one answering door.’
She says ‘that’s weird are you at the house with the concrete steps?’
He says ‘no…wait what’s that address again?’ He gets back in his car and finds the right house.

This is normal life. This is every other country. This is what everyone should expect to happen. Instead we are all now living in fear of guns around every corner. We need a ‘the only thing we have to fear is fear itself’ moment from our leadership to get this gun crisis under control. We are living in absurdity.

+1. Agreed.

I am not saying the shooter had only one option. But he claims that the victim was trying to open his door. The victim had left his cell phone at home. I don’t have a gun and would never fire a shot in this situation. I would, however, be terrified if someone was trying to open my door late at night. We recently had a home invasion/murder in our neighborhood and it puts you on edge.

From the NYT:

"Mr. Lester told a police officer after the shooting that he saw a Black male “pulling on the exterior storm door handle.” This was one of the few areas of disagreement: When interviewed by a detective, Ralph said that he only rang the doorbell and did not pull on the door. Within moments, Mr. Lester began shooting through the glass of the exterior storm door, afraid that a break-in was in progress, he told the police."

Trying to open an exterior storm door--if that happened--is different than trying to open the main door. I have an exterior storm door and people often open it to knock directly on my main door.

Also, the criminal complaint (linked to earlier in this thread) says that two DNA samples were taken from the exterior door. They seem to exclude both the homeowner and the person who's DNA was found on the porch (presumably Ralph).

+1 If you push the button to ring the bell and can’t hear if it actually rang, the next step would be to open the screen door to reach the door knocker or knock on the door.

+1

Whichever PP keeps talking about ‘being terrified someone opens your storm door’ pay attention when you ring someone’s doorbell that has a storm door. If you can’t hear it or they don’t come to the door, I bet you will instinctively try to storm door to knock on the actual door. But you probably won’t be shot since you aren’t a black teenage boy. That’s the only difference in this equation.

I really think the fact that it was 10pm at night is a huge factor that no one is mentioning.

+1 plus, the guy is so old -- dementia, etc on top of any racist views. We would not open our door if anyone knocked or rang the doorbell at night. We would call 911.

If you are an actually scared, not evil and brainwashed, human being, this is a totally normal response. Don't answer the door. And if you're really scared, call 911.
You don't shoot someone just because they knock on your door, even at 10pm

[Anonymous]

From what his ex-wife says, he was abusive toward her. Unless you know that she is black, I think you are applying racism to this terrible tragedy. Pleas stop causing further division by crying "RASCIST" at every turn. It is not helpful. It divides. And it does help people who are actual victims of racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what his ex-wife says, he was abusive toward her. Unless you know that she is black, I think you are applying racism to this terrible tragedy. Pleas stop causing further division by crying "RASCIST" at every turn. It is not helpful. It divides. And it does help people who are actual victims of racism.

The prosecutor said the crime has a racial component. Take it up with him.

[Anonymous]

Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

The division is already there--has always been there. We are a nation that was founded with violence, including the near-destruction of the native population and the horrific slave trade. Trying to paper over all of that doesn't make it better. We need to understand who we are, deal with systemic issues that keep different groups of people down, and then try to move forward together. I have hope that the younger generations will eventually get there. But we're not there yet and not talking about it isn't going to magically make the issues go away.

[Anonymous]

Talking about the various issue is good. rewriting history or ;looking at a very narrow section of history while ignoring other sections is dangerous. Are you aware that slave trading occurred in. most countries? Are you aware that many different colored people were sold into slavery? Including whites? Are you aware that the Africans sold other Africans? So please, I hear that you have subscribed to what is currently being taught in colleges and now lower schools as well. But if you believe yourself to be intellectual at all, which you seem to present yourself that way . . . then aren't you one that talks about the importance of truth and tolerance? Do you homework and read from original sources to see about slavery, the founding of the America and world history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talking about the various issue is good. rewriting history or ;looking at a very narrow section of history while ignoring other sections is dangerous. Are you aware that slave trading occurred in. most countries? Are you aware that many different colored people were sold into slavery? Including whites? Are you aware that the Africans sold other Africans? So please, I hear that you have subscribed to what is currently being taught in colleges and now lower schools as well. But if you believe yourself to be intellectual at all, which you seem to present yourself that way . . . then aren't you one that talks about the importance of truth and tolerance? Do you homework and read from original sources to see about slavery, the founding of the America and world history.

Why are you trying to minimize the racist history our country has?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what his ex-wife says, he was abusive toward her. Unless you know that she is black, I think you are applying racism to this terrible tragedy. Pleas stop causing further division by crying "RASCIST" at every turn. It is not helpful. It divides. And it does help people who are actual victims of racism.

In case you missed this in the last page, the shooter is racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what his ex-wife says, he was abusive toward her. Unless you know that she is black, I think you are applying racism to this terrible tragedy. Pleas stop causing further division by crying "RASCIST" at every turn. It is not helpful. It divides. And it does help people who are actual victims of racism.

I think you have a very limited view of what racism is. Did this guy hate black people and want to harm them? Most likely no. Were his responses to this kid based on the color of this kid’s skin? Most likely yes. He saw a black kid on his doorstep who objectively looks like every other slightly dorky band kid ever (I know - I have one). What did he see? A criminal. It is hard to believe there was no implicit bias there. He saw what he was conditioned to believe - that black men are a threat and so he needed to protect himself.

Trying to eliminate these biases is why we talk about the state of racism in the country. But apparently talking about unconscious biases or institutional racism is “CRT” or “woke” or something. We need to get better if we want to prevent race from being a factor in things like this. And currently, the people who don’t want to be made uncomfortable are pushing back on us thinking about our own societal biases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

The division is already there--has always been there. We are a nation that was founded with violence, including the near-destruction of the native population and the horrific slave trade. Trying to paper over all of that doesn't make it better. We need to understand who we are, deal with systemic issues that keep different groups of people down, and then try to move forward together. I have hope that the younger generations will eventually get there. But we're not there yet and not talking about it isn't going to magically make the issues go away.

Please tell us which nations don't have a similar history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah there's no doubt he's going to get off because prosecutors have to prove that he was not scared. Okay, try to prove that any case. Any stand your ground laws? You can pretty much kill anyone for any reason and just say you were scared

I think the stand your ground laws say that it has to be “reasonable” to use deadly force under the circumstances. No jury is going to find that it is reasonable to shoot a person who rang your doorbell, without more.

But I don’t think there will be a trial here. There will be some plea deal and this guy will be left to live out his miserable life under house arrest or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what his ex-wife says, he was abusive toward her. Unless you know that she is black, I think you are applying racism to this terrible tragedy. Pleas stop causing further division by crying "RASCIST" at every turn. It is not helpful. It divides. And it does help people who are actual victims of racism.

His grandson said he was racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the procecutor is saying that. . . . Listen, I'm not defending this man's actions. I'm just urging people here and elsewhere to stop jumping to conclusions. Don't parrot the voices on TV and in DC that seem to love to push this narrative. No nuance. No discussion. No evidence before being called tone of the most vile thing a person can be called. The elite media and elite politicians do not care. Let's blindly allow them to lead us to more division.

The division is already there--has always been there. We are a nation that was founded with violence, including the near-destruction of the native population and the horrific slave trade. Trying to paper over all of that doesn't make it better. We need to understand who we are, deal with systemic issues that keep different groups of people down, and then try to move forward together. I have hope that the younger generations will eventually get there. But we're not there yet and not talking about it isn't going to magically make the issues go away.

Please tell us which nations don't have a similar history.

There are many that don't--not all countries have been empires or part of empires. That being said, we were supposed to be different. We were supposed to be the giant "melting pot," the haven for the religiously persecuted, the politically persecuted, the poor, the downtrodden etc. We are literally founded on the notion of giving people a second chance in life. Or at least that's what many of us have been led to believe. So we should be better than we are. We should always strive to be better.