Started working at an elementary school last week. Shocked and sad. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

This. It's not money, it's how it's used. DC spends about 2x the national average per student. Compared to other states, only NY spends more per student, and that's likely due to high real estate and labor costs in NYC.

My 2nd grade DD is in an all-girls private. I volunteer there at lunch time. The kids are well-mannered and well-behaved, asking me if they can get up for another serving or go to the bathroom. Everyone complies with the requirement to wash your hands before eating.

Our private spends about the same per student in operating costs than public school (public school funding does not include capital expenditures). The difference is privates can pick their students, so they choose the ones who are motivated. I think single-gender education helps too. Our DD complained about boys disrupting class when she was in public.

Lol. My DS complained about the girls poking him with pencils, taking pictures of him and calling him “stupid” when the teacher was distracted. Now, DS is at an all-boys school away from that toxic femininity.

"My 2nd grade DD is in an all-girls private. I volunteer there at lunch time. The kids are well-mannered and well-behaved, "

over 90% of the really badly behaved kids at my school are male. 100% of the egregiously behaved kids at my school are male. I'm surprised, given that they haven't hit puberty and I keep hearing testosterone and social conditioning are why males are most prone to outbursts and violence, but there you go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

This. It's not money, it's how it's used. DC spends about 2x the national average per student. Compared to other states, only NY spends more per student, and that's likely due to high real estate and labor costs in NYC.

My 2nd grade DD is in an all-girls private. I volunteer there at lunch time. The kids are well-mannered and well-behaved, asking me if they can get up for another serving or go to the bathroom. Everyone complies with the requirement to wash your hands before eating.

Our private spends about the same per student in operating costs than public school (public school funding does not include capital expenditures). The difference is privates can pick their students, so they choose the ones who are motivated. I think single-gender education helps too. Our DD complained about boys disrupting class when she was in public.

Lol. My DS complained about the girls poking him with pencils, taking pictures of him and calling him “stupid” when the teacher was distracted. Now, DS is at an all-boys school away from that toxic femininity.

"My 2nd grade DD is in an all-girls private. I volunteer there at lunch time. The kids are well-mannered and well-behaved, "

over 90% of the really badly behaved kids at my school are male. 100% of the egregiously behaved kids at my school are male. I'm surprised, given that they haven't hit puberty and I keep hearing testosterone and social conditioning are why males are most prone to outbursts and violence, but there you go.

I would never send my girls to an all girls school. So much cattiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

It’s really gross that some posters keep trying to insist that having violent or highly verbally disruptive kids in the classroom is the same thing as having a child in a wheel chair sitting there or good forbid a black child (?!!) in the classroom. There’s something really wrong with you if you honestly think that.

The distinction is clear - when the teacher has to literally stop classes to reprimand someone, try to keep them on task, chase them because they ran outside, evacuate all tye other kids in the classroom because a child is screaming or destroying things. Those kids clearly do not belong in the classroom. Kids who stop the teachers from teaching do not belong in the classroom. They are the kids we’re talking about.

No one is saying they are the same. I am a PP who made an analogy to kids with physical disabilities earlier. Obviously they are not the same, but there are parallels. There are shades of gray but the FACT is disabled kids have protections, which is a good thing. And disabilities present in more ways than physical. So it is a fine line and no one size fits all approach as to which setting any particular kid should be in. What I can tell you is a parent ad hoc volunteering in a classroom is NOT the best arbiter of all kids and where they should be placed. There is an entire process for that involving the school, parents, and specialists. Is it perfect?? NO. But life is not perfect.

What’s disgusting is prior posters saying kids should be shipped off to special separate schools, and given “instruction” in their homes because god forbid (!)they be in the presence of other kids. Gues what. These kids will be adults one day and all live in a world together.

I am an adult, and no one throws chairs in my world. Not at home, not at work.

This is silly. Probably no one wets their pants or throws tantrums either. Children are different front adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

It’s really gross that some posters keep trying to insist that having violent or highly verbally disruptive kids in the classroom is the same thing as having a child in a wheel chair sitting there or good forbid a black child (?!!) in the classroom. There’s something really wrong with you if you honestly think that.

The distinction is clear - when the teacher has to literally stop classes to reprimand someone, try to keep them on task, chase them because they ran outside, evacuate all tye other kids in the classroom because a child is screaming or destroying things. Those kids clearly do not belong in the classroom. Kids who stop the teachers from teaching do not belong in the classroom. They are the kids we’re talking about.

No one is saying they are the same. I am a PP who made an analogy to kids with physical disabilities earlier. Obviously they are not the same, but there are parallels. There are shades of gray but the FACT is disabled kids have protections, which is a good thing. And disabilities present in more ways than physical. So it is a fine line and no one size fits all approach as to which setting any particular kid should be in. What I can tell you is a parent ad hoc volunteering in a classroom is NOT the best arbiter of all kids and where they should be placed. There is an entire process for that involving the school, parents, and specialists. Is it perfect?? NO. But life is not perfect.

What’s disgusting is prior posters saying kids should be shipped off to special separate schools, and given “instruction” in their homes because god forbid (!)they be in the presence of other kids. Gues what. These kids will be adults one day and all live in a world together.

I am an adult, and no one throws chairs in my world. Not at home, not at work.

This is silly. Probably no one wets their pants or throws tantrums either. Children are different front adults.

DP here. But these troubled kids don't magically become untroubled adults. However, what changes is the fact that there are consequences to their behavior and employers and business establishments aren't forced to let them stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child has special needs and I volunteered extensively at his Bethesda elementary. I saw a couple of children with very disruptive needs that impacted instructional time. These kids needed non-mainstream placement, but either the parents refused it, or there was no room in the right MCPS special program, or, MCPS did not wish to pay for SN private school outplacement, for the most severe cases.

It’s sad. However, all my kids have good memories of this school, and the Principal and IEP teams did their level best with the resources they had.

Oh god

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has special needs and I volunteered extensively at his Bethesda elementary. I saw a couple of children with very disruptive needs that impacted instructional time. These kids needed non-mainstream placement, but either the parents refused it, or there was no room in the right MCPS special program, or, MCPS did not wish to pay for SN private school outplacement, for the most severe cases.

It’s sad. However, all my kids have good memories of this school, and the Principal and IEP teams did their level best with the resources they had.

Oh god

Something to remember also, it’s not always that MCPS won’t pay for it, sometimes it’s about availability of space in a SN private school. The school has to be willing to take the child and have both space and resources to support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

It’s really gross that some posters keep trying to insist that having violent or highly verbally disruptive kids in the classroom is the same thing as having a child in a wheel chair sitting there or good forbid a black child (?!!) in the classroom. There’s something really wrong with you if you honestly think that.

The distinction is clear - when the teacher has to literally stop classes to reprimand someone, try to keep them on task, chase them because they ran outside, evacuate all tye other kids in the classroom because a child is screaming or destroying things. Those kids clearly do not belong in the classroom. Kids who stop the teachers from teaching do not belong in the classroom. They are the kids we’re talking about.

No one is saying they are the same. I am a PP who made an analogy to kids with physical disabilities earlier. Obviously they are not the same, but there are parallels. There are shades of gray but the FACT is disabled kids have protections, which is a good thing. And disabilities present in more ways than physical. So it is a fine line and no one size fits all approach as to which setting any particular kid should be in. What I can tell you is a parent ad hoc volunteering in a classroom is NOT the best arbiter of all kids and where they should be placed. There is an entire process for that involving the school, parents, and specialists. Is it perfect?? NO. But life is not perfect.

What’s disgusting is prior posters saying kids should be shipped off to special separate schools, and given “instruction” in their homes because god forbid (!)they be in the presence of other kids. Gues what. These kids will be adults one day and all live in a world together.

I am an adult, and no one throws chairs in my world. Not at home, not at work.

Exactly. Because unlike at school, you aren’t allowed to be violent or disorderly in public without consequence. Someone will call the police.

Plus those people who act like that as adults aren't exactly employable people. They end up in prison or dead, not going to work with the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All these posts are making me want to check out my kid’s elementary school. He is in kindergarten through 5th. How would you as a parent even know if these kinds of behaviors are going on? How can I find out about what’s going on at the middle and high school his elementary feeds into?

Do you talk to your kid? Ask? I didn’t understand what he meant the first time he talked about evacuating the room.

[Anonymous]

This is why my well-behaved child with intellectual disability have spent a day in public schools. Before school age I saw the public school kids and parents on the playgrounds. Their behavior is horrible.

I didn’t see how logically a teacher could teach kids like that and handle some students with IEP’s too. My neighbor was a SPED in the self-contained classroom. She told me what really goes on there and how her job is extremely difficult.

The level of violence that goes on at school now is insane. I wouldn’t let my daughter have a play date at a home like that. God help me to keep affording to be a homeschool mom. I count my blessings. As long as we can afford it, I’m not going to send into that kind of environment daily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why my well-behaved child with intellectual disability has not spent a day in public schools. Before school age I saw the public school kids and parents on the playgrounds. Their behavior is horrible.

I didn’t see how logically a teacher could teach kids like that and handle some students with IEP’s too. My neighbor was a SPED teacher in a self-contained classroom. She told me what really goes on there and how her job is extremely difficult.

The level of violence that goes on at school now is insane. I wouldn’t let my daughter have a play date at a home like that. God help me to keep affording to be a homeschool mom. I count my blessings. As long as we can afford it, I’m not going to send into that kind of environment daily.

My phone butchered some of that. Anyway, I don’t think anyone is out of line for saying disruptive kids, SN or not, need to be in a different environment. It should be with the goal of returning them to mainstream after intervention.

The only parents I know are SN parents too. Some of their kids are the disruptive kids. They generally agree their child doesn’t belong in a mainstreamed class. It would be nice but it’s not practical. I’ve seen some fantastic SN’s only schools like St. Colette’s. They only take severe needs though. It seems like there is not a good place for all kids with needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

They can start by getting all the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and back into special facilities that are equipped (no scissors, yes metal detectors, yes guards) and trained (staff with personal defense training plus deescalation techniques etc plus aides floating around) to handle them.

The problem is the students and the parents. Not the schools. Schools don’t need more money or more anything. They need less of the thing that’s destroying them, which is disruptive students.

I'm from Europe. Part of the reason why I stayed here for good (or until I retire, at least) is that my first child was born with special needs and I knew my home country's education system had nothing for him. NOTHING. Parents of autistic kids in my country often become indigent because they cannot go to work because their kids cannot go to school!!! Please let that sink in. OF COURSE PUBLIC EDUCATION COSTS ARE LOWER WHEN YOU DON'T ACCOMMODATE THE CHILDREN WHO NEED MORE CARE. European public school systems are narrowly focused on the middle range of achievers. There is no gifted education. No special needs education. Teachers are rigid and expect children to adapt to their teaching style. Here in America it's the opposite, where teachers are trained to adapt to children's learning styles. It's a completely different philosophy. If only we could have the best of both worlds: European educational rigor, with American child-centered focus and attention paid to both extremes of development.

Americans do not realize how economically-sound their public school system really is, thanks to IDEA. It allows parents of kids with special needs to place them safely where there is the least likelihood of abuse (institutions and special schools are notorious for that), harbor some hope they will progress and become independent one day, and it allows them to contribute to the economy and maintain a certain level of dignity. I am incredibly grateful for that federal law, its particular implementation in Montgomery County, and our professional ability to get visas to stay here. We pay all of our taxes in the US, thanks to an agreement between my home country and the USA, so we are stakeholders too, despite not being citizens. We pay into the system just like you.

Now does the current system always work? No. I have witnessed massive disruption to classes when one child has behaviors that stop instruction and bother other children. The push for LRE is misguided. I know many parents of kids with special needs WHO DO NOT WANT LEAST RESTRICTIVE EDUCATION. It is applied to the extreme in cases where a child could never hope to gain anything from a mainstream classroom, because it is the least expensive option. I personally know parents who have fought their public school system to place their kids in more restrictive environments, but there are limited in seats and some are very expensive for the County, if they need specialized private schools that the County pays for. Some reasonably well-off parents choose to homeschool instead.

The American philosophy of meeting each child where they are is in my mind the pinnacle of a civilized society. You should be proud of your country in that regard. No other country in the world has pushed as far as the USA to include every child in its public education effort. It has lifted many families out of poverty because they could finally go to work, and it has trained children who might otherwise never had received a degree to be functional and employable. PLEASE FACTOR THIS INTO YOUR FINANCIAL CALCULATIONS.

We just need to tweak it. Surely we can do that.

It's very true that the US educational system is great compared to most others when it comes to significant disabilities, like autism. However, that's a pretty small subset of children, and you need to understand that serving special needs populations as well as we do results in negative effects for the majority of other children.

Surely you're intelligent enough to understand that the inclusion of all children benefits more than the autistic subset. We're talking about all sorts of developmental delays, the giant ADHD group, the dyslexics, dyscalculics, dysgraphics, the kids with impaired hearing or impaired sight, those in wheelchairs, the giant anxiety group, those with depression, bipolar disorders, and other psychiatric ailments. There are a kids with chronic physical diseases whose treatment needs perturb their education, there are kids with cancer, particularly around NIH, because their families have the right to enroll their kids in nearby MCPS schools while their child is being treated there. I knew of a child with a specific short-term memory issue. There are so many children with varying needs!!!

Please realize that special needs come in all sorts of future options: there are kids with mild special needs who will go on to be very traditionally successful; those with moderate needs that can be perfectly functional and independent as adults; and those that will never be independent but who can be socialized and taught to advocate for themselves in some measure to make their lives safer (always a critical issue with the latter cohort). The range of functionality and futures runs the gamut!

Educating these children is making sure they are not a burden, or as light a burden as possible, to YOUR children when they're all adults and paying taxes. You've got to stop being so short-sighted and selfish, PP.

I completely agree with you that the current system can be detrimental to certain kids if they're unlucky enough to be in the class with a habitual disrupter. My kids have been in those classes. But despite one of them having an IEP himself, my kids are both functional enough to power through and be successful no matter who is in their class. The burden they bear is NOTHING compared to the burden the disrupter bears.

I support efforts to change the system just enough that children and teachers can be protected and shielded from the worse behaviors of certain perturbed children - everyone in that situation deserves better, most of all, the perturbed child themselves!

But DO NOT imply that our society should stop including and helping the immense numbers of children with special needs. One of them might cure your cancer one day. They are not all cognitively impaired, you know. Some of them are very bright indeed. My husband has ADHD/Asperger's, he has an MD and a PhD and works in cancer research. I know what I'm talking about.

I strongly disagree that kids with anxiety or adhd benefit by having kids with autism or other highly disruptive or explosive behaviors in the classroom. On the contrary, they benefit from a calm and orderly environment with strong expectations. And absolutely nobody is talking about kids with hearing aids. They aren’t the ones stopping an entire generation of kids from learning.

+1

[Anonymous]

What a bunch of dishonest fear mongering. I'm a mom who volunteers a lot in my kids schools. One of my kids has learning disabilities, they are mild. In 1st grade there was a mom who was so angry that a child with disabilities would be in her child's class, that she pulled her daughter out to homeschool her. She told me to my face that her kid shouldn't have to be in class with mine. My kid isn't intellectually disabled and doesn't have behavior issues. That shouldn't matter any way. You all are that mom.

You people who hate kids with disabilities need therapy.

[Anonymous]

The Federal Govt. doesn't agree with your discriminatory and ignorant opinions. Public schools are for all children, even the ones who you think have differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Federal Govt. doesn't agree with your discriminatory and ignorant opinions. Public schools are for all children, even the ones who you think have differences.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am concerned that some of these posts seem to be attributing these behaviors to minority and poor kids. I attended a minority majority school in a small Southern town--my graduating class was 72% black, we had socioeconomic diversity ranging from rich kids to kids on welfare, and there was a literal orphanage in my town. We absolutely did not have issues like what I witnessed in my kids' ES, like kids eloping from the school and rolling around on the floor of the classroom. The main differences were cohesive communities (church attendance and community involvement meant people knew each other), small class sizes, and discipline. I don't believe in corporal punishment, but misbehavior was addressed immediately. More spending might help if it results in smaller classes, but schools here are at capacity and building new ones takes forever.

I don't know what the answer is.

Why? Do you associate chair throwing and behavior special needs with minorities and impoverished children? Because I’ve read every post here and you are the only one who has mentioned these groups is you. And you ain’t the only one here from a poor, minority southern town.