In this forum we typically hear from the young person who cut off their parent, sibling, or IL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

It’s not always so black and white. Our DD cut us off b/c she thought our rules that drugs may not enter our home was unreasonable. She also thought that dating a twice convicted drug dealer was acceptable and that bringing that individual into our home, when we were not home was acceptable. Worse, she brought this creep around her minor brother & sister, while we were out of town. She opted to leave, drop out of college & cut us off because these behaviors were not acceptable in our home. When I say drugs, I’m referring to pills & LSD. It’s horrid and sad but she refuses help & therapy. She is her own worst enemy. As parents, we have to protect all of our kids, particularly the minors. As she’s over 18, we can’t do much except offer help, therapy & support.

DP. It is black and white. Adults get to choose who is in their life and who isn't. Your DD can no more impose her choices on you than you can impose your choices on her. If either party determines those choices are not acceptable, they are entitled to end the relationship. No one is 'owed' a relationship.

The parent/child relationship is not simply two adults who get to decide who is in their lives. Parents are expected to love their children unconditionally which is not something expected of adult friendships. See the Dr Dre thread where multiple people are saying no matter what, would never cut off a mooching adult child who can't stand on their own two feet and would never allow them to become homeless, would support them at all costs. It's not an even playing field between parent/child. Although adult children are not expected to stand by and love their parents unconditionally in the same way. They are allowed, and sometimes encouraged to cut off imperfect parents for minor infractions, much like you would a casual friend or acquaintance. Why are the bonds so easily broken when it comes to children and their parents, but not the other way around?

Do all parents really love and accept their children unconditionally? They’re expected to, sure, but many don’t. I don’t know anyone who has cut parents off, but lots of us end up having to set some serious boundaries or be treated like we are still dependent children.

Well, it's often the adult children who initiate the cutting of ties. And this is a rather new phenomenon. But is it really better?

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/01/why-parents-and-kids-get-estranged/617612/

"Both sides often fail to recognize how profoundly the rules of family life have changed over the past half century. “Never before have family relationships been seen as so interwoven with the search for personal growth, the pursuit of happiness, and the need to confront and overcome psychological obstacles,” the historian Stephanie Coontz, the director of education and research for the Council on Contemporary Families, told me in an email. “For most of history, family relationships were based on mutual obligations rather than on mutual understanding. Parents or children might reproach the other for failing to honor/acknowledge their duty, but the idea that a relative could be faulted for failing to honor/acknowledge one’s ‘identity’ would have been incomprehensible.”

...
"Deciding which people to keep in or out of one’s life has become an important strategy to achieve that happiness. While there’s nothing especially modern about family conflict or a desire to feel insulated from it, conceptualizing the estrangement of a family member as an expression of personal growth as it is commonly done today is almost certainly new."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

OP here. I have never cut anyone off, nor has anyone done it to me. I’ve seen it happen among my friends though.

Same here, and so many of my friends. Unbelievable reactions to simple misunderstandings or actions deemed "toxic."

Here's some examples:
1. Parents bought a doll for a grandbaby. They were not asked not to, so they had no idea that son and daughter inlaw would become incensed about their choice of a patriarchal,heteronormative, gender stereotypical toy. Upon profuse apology, they were told that they would have to do more than that! Damage was done and now they know what parents must be thinking about how this child should be raised.

2. Son in law, age 29, started an actual fist fight with wife's sibling because of an argument over interest rate projections and impact on types of student loans He put the 17 year old in a headlock on floor. Daughter complained that her parents supported their own child and not her husband when they pulled him off of teen. Teen's nose was bleeding and shirt ripped.

3. Grandma put a store bought diaper rash paste, on baby when babysitting over a long weekend, as there was none packed. Daughter was hysterical claiming baby should have been seen by a doctor. Mom explained that she used the same paste
on her kids, which daughter interpreted as a
judgement of her parenting. Rash was gone, and so was relationship.

4. Parents didn’t attend soccer play offs of grandchild, even though they had attended many games. Banned from all future events.

5. Parents gave their 33 year old their used car, about 12 years old but in good working condition. 33 year old lost job as chef in pandemic. Since job loss, has worked itinerant jobs to keep cash coming in. Received some stimulus. Other child, 37, claimed favoritism. Other child is a lawyer. Not kidding! Not talking to parents, not allowing contact with grandchildren.

And everyone knows if you have one side of the story you know everything that happened and are ready to judge everyone involved. I am sure these offenses were the first and only time any of these parents ever did anything the children slightly disagreed with and we’re otherwise Mr. Rogers level model parents. /s/

See, none of these are actual offenses. That's the point. And, no, it's not one sided.

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah? So in each case you are close to both parties? I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah? So in each case you are close to both parties? I doubt it.

That poster likely needs as much help as their "innocent" friends do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah? So in each case you are close to both parties? I doubt it.

That poster likely needs as much help as their "innocent" friends do.

NP here but these scenarios aren’t all hard to believe. At least once a week, someone starts a thread “should I be mad at my [insert relative]?” about something silly. Posters often gang up on OP for being so ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah? So in each case you are close to both parties? I doubt it.

That poster likely needs as much help as their "innocent" friends do.

NP here but these scenarios aren’t all hard to believe. At least once a week, someone starts a thread “should I be mad at my [insert relative]?” about something silly. Posters often gang up on OP for being so ridiculous.

Being mad is so different than cutting off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

It’s not always so black and white. Our DD cut us off b/c she thought our rules that drugs may not enter our home was unreasonable. She also thought that dating a twice convicted drug dealer was acceptable and that bringing that individual into our home, when we were not home was acceptable. Worse, she brought this creep around her minor brother & sister, while we were out of town. She opted to leave, drop out of college & cut us off because these behaviors were not acceptable in our home. When I say drugs, I’m referring to pills & LSD. It’s horrid and sad but she refuses help & therapy. She is her own worst enemy. As parents, we have to protect all of our kids, particularly the minors. As she’s over 18, we can’t do much except offer help, therapy & support.

DP. It is black and white. Adults get to choose who is in their life and who isn't. Your DD can no more impose her choices on you than you can impose your choices on her. If either party determines those choices are not acceptable, they are entitled to end the relationship. No one is 'owed' a relationship.

The parent/child relationship is not simply two adults who get to decide who is in their lives. Parents are expected to love their children unconditionally which is not something expected of adult friendships. See the Dr Dre thread where multiple people are saying no matter what, would never cut off a mooching adult child who can't stand on their own two feet and would never allow them to become homeless, would support them at all costs. It's not an even playing field between parent/child. Although adult children are not expected to stand by and love their parents unconditionally in the same way. They are allowed, and sometimes encouraged to cut off imperfect parents for minor infractions, much like you would a casual friend or acquaintance. Why are the bonds so easily broken when it comes to children and their parents, but not the other way around?

Do all parents really love and accept their children unconditionally? They’re expected to, sure, but many don’t. I don’t know anyone who has cut parents off, but lots of us end up having to set some serious boundaries or be treated like we are still dependent children.

Well, it's often the adult children who initiate the cutting of ties. And this is a rather new phenomenon. But is it really better?........

It's not really a 'new phenomenon'. It's only become more apparent. It's only within relatively recent memory that it's been so easy, and so cheap, to remain in contact with people living far from you. Not so long ago, if I wanted to cut you off, all I would have to do is move to a different part of the country. Do you not remember the days before email and when you had to pay by the minute for long distance calls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

It’s not always so black and white. Our DD cut us off b/c she thought our rules that drugs may not enter our home was unreasonable. She also thought that dating a twice convicted drug dealer was acceptable and that bringing that individual into our home, when we were not home was acceptable. Worse, she brought this creep around her minor brother & sister, while we were out of town. She opted to leave, drop out of college & cut us off because these behaviors were not acceptable in our home. When I say drugs, I’m referring to pills & LSD. It’s horrid and sad but she refuses help & therapy. She is her own worst enemy. As parents, we have to protect all of our kids, particularly the minors. As she’s over 18, we can’t do much except offer help, therapy & support.

DP. It is black and white. Adults get to choose who is in their life and who isn't. Your DD can no more impose her choices on you than you can impose your choices on her. If either party determines those choices are not acceptable, they are entitled to end the relationship. No one is 'owed' a relationship.

The parent/child relationship is not simply two adults who get to decide who is in their lives. Parents are expected to love their children unconditionally which is not something expected of adult friendships. See the Dr Dre thread where multiple people are saying no matter what, would never cut off a mooching adult child who can't stand on their own two feet and would never allow them to become homeless, would support them at all costs. It's not an even playing field between parent/child. Although adult children are not expected to stand by and love their parents unconditionally in the same way. They are allowed, and sometimes encouraged to cut off imperfect parents for minor infractions, much like you would a casual friend or acquaintance. Why are the bonds so easily broken when it comes to children and their parents, but not the other way around?

Do all parents really love and accept their children unconditionally? They’re expected to, sure, but many don’t. I don’t know anyone who has cut parents off, but lots of us end up having to set some serious boundaries or be treated like we are still dependent children.

Well, it's often the adult children who initiate the cutting of ties. And this is a rather new phenomenon. But is it really better?........

It's not really a 'new phenomenon'. It's only become more apparent. It's only within relatively recent memory that it's been so easy, and so cheap, to remain in contact with people living far from you. Not so long ago, if I wanted to cut you off, all I would have to do is move to a different part of the country. Do you not remember the days before email and when you had to pay by the minute for long distance calls?

+1

I have an aunt who cut off the whole family in the 1970s. She moved to California and just didn't stay in touch. On the other side, I have an uncle who cut off his siblings (but not his parents) in the 1980s.

Come to think of it, I have a great uncle who moved away from his family as a teen in the 1940s and never spoke to any of them again. Apparently he got beat up every day, so he left and moved far away, started his own family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

It’s not always so black and white. Our DD cut us off b/c she thought our rules that drugs may not enter our home was unreasonable. She also thought that dating a twice convicted drug dealer was acceptable and that bringing that individual into our home, when we were not home was acceptable. Worse, she brought this creep around her minor brother & sister, while we were out of town. She opted to leave, drop out of college & cut us off because these behaviors were not acceptable in our home. When I say drugs, I’m referring to pills & LSD. It’s horrid and sad but she refuses help & therapy. She is her own worst enemy. As parents, we have to protect all of our kids, particularly the minors. As she’s over 18, we can’t do much except offer help, therapy & support.

DP. It is black and white. Adults get to choose who is in their life and who isn't. Your DD can no more impose her choices on you than you can impose your choices on her. If either party determines those choices are not acceptable, they are entitled to end the relationship. No one is 'owed' a relationship.

The parent/child relationship is not simply two adults who get to decide who is in their lives. Parents are expected to love their children unconditionally which is not something expected of adult friendships. See the Dr Dre thread where multiple people are saying no matter what, would never cut off a mooching adult child who can't stand on their own two feet and would never allow them to become homeless, would support them at all costs. It's not an even playing field between parent/child. Although adult children are not expected to stand by and love their parents unconditionally in the same way. They are allowed, and sometimes encouraged to cut off imperfect parents for minor infractions, much like you would a casual friend or acquaintance. Why are the bonds so easily broken when it comes to children and their parents, but not the other way around?

You're being disingenuous. Children will never have the power over their parents that parents have over children. Literally, even prior to birth, the actions of a parent will have life-long, unchangeable impacts on the child. The parent's choices and 'conditioning' set the direction of a child's development for good or for bad. It is an unbalanced power dynamic until that child is old/strong enough to make choices about how much s/he wants that parent in her/his life. If a casual friend/acquaintance behaves in such a way that you believe you're better off without them in your life, why would you allow a parent with the same behaviors to remain in yours? You assert that these bonds are 'easily' broken but I think that 'easy' is relative. It's easier to deal with the fallout of a relationship if there is no relationship but getting to that point and maintaining boundaries is not easy at all.

I don't know why you think it's easier for a child to cut off a parent than a parent to cut off a child. I don't know anyone for whom it's been easy even when it's been the best choice. I can't comment on the Dr. Dre situation but there are always people (parents and children) who make poor/wrong choices. Just because you can't imagine doing something or wouldn't do something doesn't mean others wouldn't. Sometimes it's the right choice, sometimes it's the wrong choice. MYOB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

It’s not always so black and white. Our DD cut us off b/c she thought our rules that drugs may not enter our home was unreasonable. She also thought that dating a twice convicted drug dealer was acceptable and that bringing that individual into our home, when we were not home was acceptable. Worse, she brought this creep around her minor brother & sister, while we were out of town. She opted to leave, drop out of college & cut us off because these behaviors were not acceptable in our home. When I say drugs, I’m referring to pills & LSD. It’s horrid and sad but she refuses help & therapy. She is her own worst enemy. As parents, we have to protect all of our kids, particularly the minors. As she’s over 18, we can’t do much except offer help, therapy & support.

DP. It is black and white. Adults get to choose who is in their life and who isn't. Your DD can no more impose her choices on you than you can impose your choices on her. If either party determines those choices are not acceptable, they are entitled to end the relationship. No one is 'owed' a relationship.

The parent/child relationship is not simply two adults who get to decide who is in their lives. Parents are expected to love their children unconditionally which is not something expected of adult friendships. See the Dr Dre thread where multiple people are saying no matter what, would never cut off a mooching adult child who can't stand on their own two feet and would never allow them to become homeless, would support them at all costs. It's not an even playing field between parent/child. Although adult children are not expected to stand by and love their parents unconditionally in the same way. They are allowed, and sometimes encouraged to cut off imperfect parents for minor infractions, much like you would a casual friend or acquaintance. Why are the bonds so easily broken when it comes to children and their parents, but not the other way around?

Do all parents really love and accept their children unconditionally? They’re expected to, sure, but many don’t. I don’t know anyone who has cut parents off, but lots of us end up having to set some serious boundaries or be treated like we are still dependent children.

Well, it's often the adult children who initiate the cutting of ties. And this is a rather new phenomenon. But is it really better?........

It's not really a 'new phenomenon'. It's only become more apparent. It's only within relatively recent memory that it's been so easy, and so cheap, to remain in contact with people living far from you. Not so long ago, if I wanted to cut you off, all I would have to do is move to a different part of the country. Do you not remember the days before email and when you had to pay by the minute for long distance calls?

+1

I have an aunt who cut off the whole family in the 1970s. She moved to California and just didn't stay in touch. On the other side, I have an uncle who cut off his siblings (but not his parents) in the 1980s.

Come to think of it, I have a great uncle who moved away from his family as a teen in the 1940s and never spoke to any of them again. Apparently he got beat up every day, so he left and moved far away, started his own family.

Same here. I and my spouse have older relatives with similar stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

It’s not always so black and white. Our DD cut us off b/c she thought our rules that drugs may not enter our home was unreasonable. She also thought that dating a twice convicted drug dealer was acceptable and that bringing that individual into our home, when we were not home was acceptable. Worse, she brought this creep around her minor brother & sister, while we were out of town. She opted to leave, drop out of college & cut us off because these behaviors were not acceptable in our home. When I say drugs, I’m referring to pills & LSD. It’s horrid and sad but she refuses help & therapy. She is her own worst enemy. As parents, we have to protect all of our kids, particularly the minors. As she’s over 18, we can’t do much except offer help, therapy & support.

DP. It is black and white. Adults get to choose who is in their life and who isn't. Your DD can no more impose her choices on you than you can impose your choices on her. If either party determines those choices are not acceptable, they are entitled to end the relationship. No one is 'owed' a relationship.

The parent/child relationship is not simply two adults who get to decide who is in their lives. Parents are expected to love their children unconditionally which is not something expected of adult friendships. See the Dr Dre thread where multiple people are saying no matter what, would never cut off a mooching adult child who can't stand on their own two feet and would never allow them to become homeless, would support them at all costs. It's not an even playing field between parent/child. Although adult children are not expected to stand by and love their parents unconditionally in the same way. They are allowed, and sometimes encouraged to cut off imperfect parents for minor infractions, much like you would a casual friend or acquaintance. Why are the bonds so easily broken when it comes to children and their parents, but not the other way around?

Do all parents really love and accept their children unconditionally? They’re expected to, sure, but many don’t. I don’t know anyone who has cut parents off, but lots of us end up having to set some serious boundaries or be treated like we are still dependent children.

Well, it's often the adult children who initiate the cutting of ties. And this is a rather new phenomenon. But is it really better?........

It's not really a 'new phenomenon'. It's only become more apparent. It's only within relatively recent memory that it's been so easy, and so cheap, to remain in contact with people living far from you. Not so long ago, if I wanted to cut you off, all I would have to do is move to a different part of the country. Do you not remember the days before email and when you had to pay by the minute for long distance calls?

+1

I have an aunt who cut off the whole family in the 1970s. She moved to California and just didn't stay in touch. On the other side, I have an uncle who cut off his siblings (but not his parents) in the 1980s.

Come to think of it, I have a great uncle who moved away from his family as a teen in the 1940s and never spoke to any of them again. Apparently he got beat up every day, so he left and moved far away, started his own family.

Same here. I and my spouse have older relatives with similar stories.

To add, it's my understanding that they were also abusive situations.

[Anonymous]

When the bonds are broken, the bonds were not strong. If the bond wasn't strong, the parents played an outsize role in that. I know people who cut off parents, and it was agonizing for them, even when their parents were objectively horrible. I would say that no one does it lightly, but I'm sure there are exceptions, because there are always exceptions, and there are crazy people out there! But no way is that how it usually goes.

I do not like that Atlantic article that frames estrangements as adult children choosing "personal growth" like a yoga retreat or clean eating or something. I'd say the adult children are choosing "survival" or maybe just "living my own life without getting dragged down," but it's not just like an optional luxury life improvement.

[Anonymous]

It’s a whole different world when you grow up in an abusive or mentally ill alcoholic family. There’s only so much you can take/ deserve to take. Also there are acts that while you might forgive the person, they don’t forgive themselves or you. So by default it’s an estrangement. You can bang your head on a wall or you can let it go. It’s not as if you have a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When the bonds are broken, the bonds were not strong. If the bond wasn't strong, the parents played an outsize role in that. I know people who cut off parents, and it was agonizing for them, even when their parents were objectively horrible. I would say that no one does it lightly, but I'm sure there are exceptions, because there are always exceptions, and there are crazy people out there! But no way is that how it usually goes.

I do not like that Atlantic article that frames estrangements as adult children choosing "personal growth" like a yoga retreat or clean eating or something. I'd say the adult children are choosing "survival" or maybe just "living my own life without getting dragged down," but it's not just like an optional luxury life improvement.

Isn't it though? In the past, families did rely on themselves more for survival. The more hands on deck, the better the farm could be run. It seems a recent luxury where people can only focus on themselves or the nuclear family without needing the extended family as much. So it's easier to cut people off, like your parents, if you're now an independent adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to impose into anyone else’s life so by definition the people doing the cutting off are always on the “right side”. The attitude that your adult children owe you something is exactly what leads to estrangement.

OP here. I have never cut anyone off, nor has anyone done it to me. I’ve seen it happen among my friends though.

Same here, and so many of my friends. Unbelievable reactions to simple misunderstandings or actions deemed "toxic."

Here's some examples:
1. Parents bought a doll for a grandbaby. They were not asked not to, so they had no idea that son and daughter inlaw would become incensed about their choice of a patriarchal,heteronormative, gender stereotypical toy. Upon profuse apology, they were told that they would have to do more than that! Damage was done and now they know what parents must be thinking about how this child should be raised.

2. Son in law, age 29, started an actual fist fight with wife's sibling because of an argument over interest rate projections and impact on types of student loans He put the 17 year old in a headlock on floor. Daughter complained that her parents supported their own child and not her husband when they pulled him off of teen. Teen's nose was bleeding and shirt ripped.

3. Grandma put a store bought diaper rash paste, on baby when babysitting over a long weekend, as there was none packed. Daughter was hysterical claiming baby should have been seen by a doctor. Mom explained that she used the same paste
on her kids, which daughter interpreted as a
judgement of her parenting. Rash was gone, and so was relationship.

4. Parents didn’t attend soccer play offs of grandchild, even though they had attended many games. Banned from all future events.

5. Parents gave their 33 year old their used car, about 12 years old but in good working condition. 33 year old lost job as chef in pandemic. Since job loss, has worked itinerant jobs to keep cash coming in. Received some stimulus. Other child, 37, claimed favoritism. Other child is a lawyer. Not kidding! Not talking to parents, not allowing contact with grandchildren.

And everyone knows if you have one side of the story you know everything that happened and are ready to judge everyone involved. I am sure these offenses were the first and only time any of these parents ever did anything the children slightly disagreed with and we’re otherwise Mr. Rogers level model parents. /s/

See, none of these are actual offenses. That's the point. And, no, it's not one sided.

I know a few examples of low/no contact that fit the typical mold. But I also know all players in a situation where child cut off parents, including access to grandchildren, because parents took in a young girl with a rough family life as a teen to help her out. Two “real” children were fine with this until they were all adults, and then when parents gave this girl a modest sum of money to help with her wedding, one child flipped out about it. (She had gotten a wedding at 10x the amount, but that didn’t matter.) child thought that all parents money should eventually go to her and sibling only. But she had always been a narcissist, and a spoiled one at that. This may have been the first time she didn’t get what she wanted.