My tween is... clueless? Rude? Needs help?

[Anonymous]

This may be out of left field, but here’s a thought. He seems kind of bored about school and social interactions, would he be into acting classes or improv for teens or doing his own comedy on YouTube? I mean, he thinks things a lot of people would relate to but just wouldn’t say. Maybe through acting and comedy he can gain perspective in a less earnest and lame way. I also think SEL and DEI trainings are LAME, but I do my eye rolls inwardly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like he has problems with perspective taking. It is a lagging social skill, he's not being rude on purpose. He just doesn't understand the other person's perspective and resulting consequences.

You have to explicitly teach him perspective taking....

Give him scenarios and ask him how different players are feeling (don't make the scenarios personal).

Read children's books with an emotional component (like the chicken soup for the soul series) and ask him to identify people's feelings.

Check out stuff by Michelle Garcia Winner. Two of her books that can help are "You Too Can be a Social Detective" and "Social Fortune or Social Fate". Also check out Ryan Wexelblatt's youtube channel for videos on perspective taking. BTW, this social skills stuff is targeted at kids with ADHD or autism because they very commonly have lagging social skills, but I think it's fair to say a lot of young boys have lagging social skills even if they're not in one of these groups.

Garcia's framework - which you have to explicitly teach him - is basically that when you do what's expected, people have good thoughts about you. When you do what's unexpected, people have bad thoughts about you. For example, when someone says hi to you, they expect you to say hi back. When you don't, that's unexpected. and will cause the other person to have weird/bad thoughts about you. They will remember these negative feelings the next time they see you. When you write someone a birthday card, it's expected that you write happy birthday. When you write a joke, that's unexpected, and will cause the other person to have negative/bad thoughts, etc...

When these situations happen in real life, instead of saying "that's rude," say, "I bet so and so didn't expect that, I wonder if they're having bad thoughts about you now." Keep modeling and doing this over and over in real life.

Not sure if you are an educator but thank you-not the OP but I have a 12 year old boy and I have noticed this rudeness this year in virtual. I somehow missed this when he is around me but wow when I am not. My son gives one word answers to teachers over computer. Ex If a teacher aka “how are you doing”-he will just say fine and just be silent after and looks distracted and not say” I am fine and how are you with a happy tone ?”—I cringe at the rudeness. I am going to look this suggested stuff up. FYI my son doesn’t have adhd but I think this year being home he has become immature. He needs to be in school and around people. I could cry what this pandemic has done to all these kids who have been stuck at home. This is a second pandemic.

[Anonymous]

You could be describing my child at that age, OP. He’s a teenager now, and while still awkward, he understands how to converse politely and refrains from that brutal honesty. He has ADHD, with presentation strongly skewed toward the lack of impulsivity. I believe learning about that was helpful in developing a filter. As long as you don’t think he is trying to hurt feelings with his comments, I think you should continue to teach him and it’ll get better!

[Anonymous]

You are describing my whole country. The barb wire was removed over 30 years ago, but still long way to go. Younger people are much better at socializing and conversations. Older folks who grew up in bubble are still speechless in social situations.
As a kid, I could just stand there looking at a grown-up and have nothing to say. Never saw it modeled and the language has far less words than English.
How do his friends talk? Can he keep up with them or is he the odd one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like he has problems with perspective taking. It is a lagging social skill, he's not being rude on purpose. He just doesn't understand the other person's perspective and resulting consequences.

You have to explicitly teach him perspective taking....

Give him scenarios and ask him how different players are feeling (don't make the scenarios personal).

Read children's books with an emotional component (like the chicken soup for the soul series) and ask him to identify people's feelings.

Check out stuff by Michelle Garcia Winner. Two of her books that can help are "You Too Can be a Social Detective" and "Social Fortune or Social Fate". Also check out Ryan Wexelblatt's youtube channel for videos on perspective taking. BTW, this social skills stuff is targeted at kids with ADHD or autism because they very commonly have lagging social skills, but I think it's fair to say a lot of young boys have lagging social skills even if they're not in one of these groups.

Garcia's framework - which you have to explicitly teach him - is basically that when you do what's expected, people have good thoughts about you. When you do what's unexpected, people have bad thoughts about you. For example, when someone says hi to you, they expect you to say hi back. When you don't, that's unexpected. and will cause the other person to have weird/bad thoughts about you. They will remember these negative feelings the next time they see you. When you write someone a birthday card, it's expected that you write happy birthday. When you write a joke, that's unexpected, and will cause the other person to have negative/bad thoughts, etc...

When these situations happen in real life, instead of saying "that's rude," say, "I bet so and so didn't expect that, I wonder if they're having bad thoughts about you now." Keep modeling and doing this over and over in real life.

Not sure if you are an educator but thank you-not the OP but I have a 12 year old boy and I have noticed this rudeness this year in virtual. I somehow missed this when he is around me but wow when I am not. My son gives one word answers to teachers over computer. Ex If a teacher aka “how are you doing”-he will just say fine and just be silent after and looks distracted and not say” I am fine and how are you with a happy tone ?”—I cringe at the rudeness. I am going to look this suggested stuff up. FYI my son doesn’t have adhd but I think this year being home he has become immature. He needs to be in school and around people. I could cry what this pandemic has done to all these kids who have been stuck at home. This is a second pandemic.

+1

I am a teacher and I think virtual learning has set some kids back in terms of maturity and socialization. Once kids are in school a lot of the policing over mature behavior can happen among peers. I've heard or seen other kids (in MS) call out a kid who is 'rude' or not want to talk with them/work with them. For many kids that is enough to help them make different choices in their responses to adults/peers.

[Anonymous]

https://www.socialthinking.com/Products/should-i-or-shouldnt-i-middle-school-high-school-edition

This card game might be helpful too. It's for up to age 18, so there are a few that might be age inappropriate for a 12 year old, but most are good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still working on basic manners with my 11yr old--look in the eyes when an adult is talking to you and asking you questions; dont just "good" when asked how you are; say 'thank you' when you leave someone's care (playdates etc); say "thank you" to the coach at the end of practice etc

This seems completely normal and age-appropriate to me. Sounds like your 11 yo is not being rude. It's just that he/she is not yet comfortable with the affirmative responses that constitute good manners in our society. Again, completely age-appropriate and what we're seeing around here with DCs' 10-13 yo cohort.

But what OP is describing goes a step or two further, so I understand his/her concern. Their DS's responses and behaviors look more like active rejection of social norms -- not that it's necessarily their DS's intention -- but it shows up as being dismissive or issuing a "take down" of sorts in situations where it's not appropriate.

FWIW, I don't think OP's son's behaviors are a huge deal -- we're seeing it in many of DS's peers, too. Sacrasm and snark are huge with tweens, and they have their place, of course. The kids see so much of it on TV and in social media, and it's usually played for a laugh or seen as a huge positive.

So . . . we've been working on context - reminding DS that his thoughts and ideas are always valid and appropriate in his head. BUT it's not always valid or appropriate to share them with others. That decision really depends on the context - who he's talking with, what the situation and expectations are (school vs. friends vs. home vs. grandparents), how that person might feel (the perspective-taking mentioned above) etc.

These concepts are easy for some kids to grasp, and harder for others. Just keep noticing and instructing. SO much of this is modeling appropriate behavior. Good luck, OP!

Thank you so much, PP. I do work on it but it just makes me very riled up and his resistance (“but honesty is the best policy!”) makes me want to smack him hard. But I do think of it as some sort of deficiency rather than spite.

Highly suggest you have a neuropsych evaluation. He either has adhd and social anxiety or high functioning autism
.this isn't age appropriate at all.

[Anonymous]

Although I don't necessarily agree your son has to have ADHD or HFA to show these behaviors, you mention both your father and your ex have similar behaviors. Do a little research on ADHD and HFA, but instead of trying to diagnose your son, ask yourself if you think your father or ex have either of these conditions. If they do, there's your answer. And even if not... it could still be a genetic. predisposition.