does this sound outside the range of "normal" 3-4yo behavior to you?

[Anonymous]

Not normal. Your son has a problem controlling his frustration. Getting a handle on this now will help him to not be the guy who punches his wife later.

[Anonymous]

He is communicating the only way he knows how that he needs a new environment he can thrive in.

[Anonymous]

This kind of behavior can be really stressful to other kids.

[Anonymous]

The teacher suggested OT for emotional regulation. There are some summer OT camps that bring preschool children together and emphasize working on these skills (my ds did skills on the hill’s program - it was great!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montessori is pretty rigid imho. That pedagogy might not be a good fit for your kid.

This. Sounds like they're not setting him up for success, but putting him in situations over and over again where he is unable to control his frustrations because "that's how it's done."

+1

It really sounds like Montessori isn't a good fit for him. The ripping up another kids stuff at least once a week is pretty outside the norm. I would really wonder about the level (or lack) of supervision if that behavior is happening so regularly, I would expect the teacher to see it coming and try to preempt or redirect him much more successfully.

[Anonymous]

Your kid is a bully and you are not sure if these behaviors are normal?
Once in a while yes, constantly bullying and doing exactly what the other kids asked him not to...
Who does similar at home?

[Anonymous]

I worked with 2 year olds. And none ripped someone else's art or a drawing.
Not in 3 years.

[Anonymous]

Some of it could have elements of sensory input seeking. Also perhaps not able to verbalize frustration?

OP, is there any turmoil at home? Do you model how to deal with frustration in some peaceful ways? Can your child label his emotions and in general is he speech delayed? How long has he been in this specific school?

Not enough info to go on, but I would consider a therapist or an evaluation and some sort of OT camp. Also, can change from Montessori to something else, but it sounds like the problems may be repeating themselves in a new daycare too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montessori is pretty rigid imho. That pedagogy might not be a good fit for your kid.

This. Sounds like they're not setting him up for success, but putting him in situations over and over again where he is unable to control his frustrations because "that's how it's done."

+1 You probably have a creative “thinks outside the box” kid who doesn’t fit with the Montessori philosophy. I agree with others who’ve said that he’d fit in much better (and have fewer behavioral issues) in a less-directed environment.

- A mom who’s been in your shoes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its not ok. But it could also be the product of his environment and what montessori style expects from him. Its not for everyone.

+1

The Montessori approach works well for my kids and they'd never rip up someone else's work. And if it was happening to them then I'd definitely be putting pressure on the school to encourage that child to find a more suitable preschool.

There's a lot of maturity expected from Montessori kids. Your child doesn't have it yet. That's okay, but it's not okay to keep him somewhere that isn't good for him or the other kids.

you'd want a child removed if your kid's art project got ripped up one time in the course of a year?

OP said it was about once a week. That’s not normal or okay.

[Anonymous]

There is no school for normally developed four year olds that will be okay with a child destroying another child’s art work once a week. Montessori may not be the right fit but no preschool is going to be the right fit if you think your kid’s behavior is within the realm of normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Preschool teacher here:
He sounds frustrated and like he struggles with impulse control. 1. If it’s a school/group behavior it can be addressed much more easily at school, and you can do a lot to help him voice his frustration at home 2. If the school doesn’t see it as something they can help him mature through then that is a problem. Montessori schools tend to have very high ratios of teachers to kids as part of the model - that makes it difficult to shadow him during transitions, which is what he needs. A teacher to interfere and help him with the words before he destroys work or knocks his work over.

It’s also not something that is fixed in a week or two - every kid starts where they are and learns what they need to
thrive...
To start I would: 1. Give him a very specific count down to the end of whatever activity - at this age just a finish up what you are doing and then it’s almost time to clean up
2. Focus only on using words - if he knocks over something in frustration stop and ask him to tell you what’s he’s trying to express - don’t worry about the thing
3. Have him only go to the teacher right now, not another student - and yea that is contrary to the Montessori method

I agree with a previous poster that this school may not be a good match for him

I teach at a play based preschool and this year it’s 7 kids to two teachers. We have a 4 year old who still snatches and knocks over other kids towers...however he has made so much progress this year and he can stop and talk to a friend and apologize, help fix it and move on. Next year he will have a whole extra year of impulse control, plus the skills to talk to a friend and resolve conflict

Another preschool teacher here. I agree with the above. A play-based preschool would be a better fit for your child, it sounds like he would benefit from a school that focuses on getting along with others and socialization. Some kids this age are more impulsive than others -- your child may just be taking a little longer to mature, which is in the range of "normal".

When I have a child who behaves this way in my class, we would assign the assistant teacher to be the child's shadow at key points of the day that are likely to be challenging, like transitions between activities. You need an adult close at hand to intervene with this kind of behavior. You also want the teachers to observe it carefully, note when it happens, what kinds of circumstances, and see what they can do to minimize those circumstances. Also, to coach the child on expressing his feelings in other ways, rather than messing up another child's project. Its OK to be mad, or upset that an activity is over, but its not OK to destroy someone's project is the message to be conveyed, and worked on with the child.

Could your OT visit your child at school? Then she could observe what he's doing at school and try to work on things with him that are relevant to better self-regulation at school. My preschool has OTs, other specialists come in to observe the child at school so they can give supportive services that are responsive to what is going on at school. Because of course, school demands different things of kids than being at home does.

I'm not so sure that OT is the right kind of specialist for this situation -- a special ed / social-emotional skills consultant would be good -- but using the OT you have to come in and advise what would help at school might be useful. See if your school will allow that. They should, it is how schools can support students. Sometimes the OT or other specialist can also advise the teachers what she is working on with that child, invite the teachers to use some of the same techniques with the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no school for normally developed four year olds that will be okay with a child destroying another child’s art work once a week. Montessori may not be the right fit but no preschool is going to be the right fit if you think your kid’s behavior is within the realm of normal.

+1

My kid with sensory issues did worse at play-based preschool than Montessori. All the group activities/songs/lining up were overwhelming and he didn’t handle it well.

This is a kid who needs help he isn’t getting but I am not sure the switch to play based will be silver bullet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son's montisorri school is acting in what feels like a very dramatic way to his behavior. Daily reports of how "difficult" he's been, implying his behavior is well outside the range of normal and he's the only child that does these things, pushing us hard to get him OT earlier in the year (which we did/do and the OT found nothing in her assessment at our home and fully based her recommendation for OT for the teachers' reported behaviors), and now having us meet with the school director and them to "discuss what is going on"

I fully own that we need to work on my almost 4yos behavior and totally acknowledge a lot of kids his age don't do the things they're reporting, but also feel like his behavior isn't wildly out of the range of normal (vs diagnosis needed / outside the realm of "normal) for his age. Either way we will work on it but I'm hoping for a gut check of whether this school / these teachers may also be a bad fit for him and their view of what's normal for his age.

Things they report are:
- Ripping up another kids project when the kid says he can't help with it
- Dumping over his own work (what montisorri calls their activities) if its time to wrap up and he's not done
- During times of a lot of noise and transition, getting too close to other students and bumping into them (he's never hurt anyone at school but does touch other kids)
- Doing things like purposefully splashing water on the floor at their little sink where they're supposed to wash their own dishes

There's usually one "incident" a week of him messing up another kids work....this isn't like a multiple times a day thing. For the more minor things like getting wound up at transition times, it tends to happen on days he hasn't slept well and is struggling a bit more with self control. Again obviously these are things we need to work on to help him continue to learn and grow as a person, but are they really that abnormal for an almost 4 year old?

Yes. Your child’s actions at nearly four are without question outside normal behavior.

I’m a preschool teacher with a masters in ECD and the weekly distraction of another child’s work is very serious and a huge red flag. You

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I wish I could give you a hug. I am the author of this thread from 2012: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/268691.page

My son is now in 7th grade and he is so calm and sweet and kind. He can't remember any of his crazy behavior from kindergarten and preschool.

My son was hitting kids every day in school. He also tore up art projects and threw blocks at kids. People also asked me what was going on at home to cause this. Parents looked at me as though I was the mom of a serial killer.

My son completely outgrew the behavior by first grade. He is a very anxious child and the anxiety now manifests in a different way. Of course, as a 12-year-old, he can express how he is feeling and we can work together on his anxiety.

Perhaps you should find a new preschool or maybe the teachers can work with you to manage the situation. My son had a lovely K teacher. She let him sit under her desk with a blanket thrown over it to calm him down. It could take some out-of-the box thinking like that to help.

Anyway, I know you are a good parent and you are doing your best. I promise that it will get better and you and your son will have a good laugh about it when he is in 7th grade!

Np. That's a really interesting perspective. The splashing water thing sounds like an impulse control issue, but the other scenarios do sound like situations that could trigger anxiety.