TKPK public schools vs. AUP/Tenleytown/Friendship Heights public schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids went through TKPK schools here's the low down.

TPES (K-2) had the only ES magnet in MCPS. They still have enriched math unlike other ES in the county. It is a focus school so class sizes can run as low as 16 students but are more often 18-20.

PBES (3-6) has a local CES also a fine school. If you go by GS ratings it's a 10 for my kid's demographic cohort which is to say anyone can get a great education there.

TPMS (6-8) hosts the county's STEM magnet program. There is an in-boudnary set aside of 25 seats for the magnet. I think the school has a rating of 10/10 for test score averages but not sure that matters. It also offers the enriched classes like all other MCPS MS.

Blair (9-12) the largest HS in the county. It is also very diverse in a balanced way. It hosts the HS STEM magnet and CAP. You also can do great there just taking APs. Given its size, there's a lot of opportunities to find your niche. Bethesda Beat has a list of college admissions from local HSs. Blair does well. It also often wins things like "It's Academic" for the region and has students in both the US Math and Physics Olympiad.

NP-- a couple of notes.

TPES is not a magnet-- a magnet is thus named because it draws kids from elsewhere. It is a "gifted" program or whatever you want to call it, though, for kids in zone.

FOCUS schools have a class size limit of 18 at the beginning of the school year for the lower grades, but can add a couple during the year if kids move in or whatever.

OP-- It really does sound like you started with Great Schools. Please know that GS is bunk. It's exactly why two schools with literally the same cohort and similar admins can have different GS scores. And their new diversity/equity metrics do a terrible job of what they want them to do, and inevitably and invariably penalize schools like Blair for existing. The primary purpose of the creation of the magnets at Blair (30 years ago) was to draw kids from the county at large (whiter, and now more Asian American) to a school that was disproportionately Black and Latino. By making it a very academically selective program, you end up with high achieving students who are disproportionately-- as compared to the natural cohort-- white and Asian. GS equity score compares the achievement of white and Asian students to Black and Latino. If the school had just its natural cohort, the differences would be much less stark-- it's less that most Black and Latino students are getting a bad education and more that half or more of the white and Asian students attend the school because they were selected for high test scores in the first place, and get an even (arguably) better education. (Blair absolutely has white and Asian students within its boundaries, by the way-- it's just a matter of proportion.)

And 30 years later Blair seems to be doing well. There was a post I saw here a while back that listed average SATs by HS and demographic cohort. For my kid's cohort Blair was 60+ higher than any W.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PBES, TPMS, and Blair are all good at the regular level (non-magnet). PBES offers enriched math for all kids 4th and up (same math as the magnet kids, actually, which gets them through 6th by the end of 5th grade). I believe about half the kids at PBES did this accelerated math when we were there a year ago.

TPMS is a great, community-oriented, welcoming school. You'll read more about the magnet, but the school is largely just regular kids.

I am comfortable with these schools in and of themselves. Am not at Blair yet, but it also seems good. Neighbors like it (most in the regular program, some in CAP, some in other special programs). The kids we know who attend Blair in our Takoma Park neighborhood are good, smart, nice kids.

For what it is worth, every MCPS school offers enriched math for grades 4 and up. That's not unique to PBES.

TPES though unlike other schools offers it for grades 1 & 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blech to this thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-urban-moms-school-segregation-study/2021/03/31/8320b6e4-9160-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html [/quote

Someone has a case of Blair envy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blech to this thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-urban-moms-school-segregation-study/2021/03/31/8320b6e4-9160-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html [/quote

Someone has a case of Blair envy.

Although they won't come out and say it, many parents on these forums are afraid of diversity and Blair is one of the more diverse schools in the state. Ironic, that these same people fall all over themselves trying to get their children into Blair.

[Anonymous]

As new parents, I wouldn't get too hung up on what the current magnet or gifted programs are at the Takoma Park schools--it's just too far down the road, and things change. See which area you like better, especially looking at what you can get for your money. You posted in the MCPS forum, so there's a lot of responses about the Takoma Park schools and very little on the DC schools you're looking at.

A PP is spot on that the TPES feeds directly to PBES, there's no change in student population. MCPS generally is not great at teaching reading in the early grades, including at TPES, but it doesn't show up in test scores until third grade and the kids are at PBES.

TPES and PBES are big schools, with 9-10 classes per grade, which can be hard when kids end up not having friends from their prior class in their current class. Blair is also huge. I'm not sure how all that compares with the DC schools you're looking at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As new parents, I wouldn't get too hung up on what the current magnet or gifted programs are at the Takoma Park schools--it's just too far down the road, and things change. See which area you like better, especially looking at what you can get for your money. You posted in the MCPS forum, so there's a lot of responses about the Takoma Park schools and very little on the DC schools you're looking at.

A PP is spot on that the TPES feeds directly to PBES, there's no change in student population. MCPS generally is not great at teaching reading in the early grades, including at TPES, but it doesn't show up in test scores until third grade and the kids are at PBES.

TPES and PBES are big schools, with 9-10 classes per grade, which can be hard when kids end up not having friends from their prior class in their current class. Blair is also huge. I'm not sure how all that compares with the DC schools you're looking at.

OP here. I cross-posted in the DC Public Schools forum, but the thread was taken down as duplicative. Speaking of this point, however, anyone have any thoughts on how Takoma Park schools compare to those West of the Park in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As new parents, I wouldn't get too hung up on what the current magnet or gifted programs are at the Takoma Park schools--it's just too far down the road, and things change. See which area you like better, especially looking at what you can get for your money. You posted in the MCPS forum, so there's a lot of responses about the Takoma Park schools and very little on the DC schools you're looking at.

A PP is spot on that the TPES feeds directly to PBES, there's no change in student population. MCPS generally is not great at teaching reading in the early grades, including at TPES, but it doesn't show up in test scores until third grade and the kids are at PBES.

TPES and PBES are big schools, with 9-10 classes per grade, which can be hard when kids end up not having friends from their prior class in their current class. Blair is also huge. I'm not sure how all that compares with the DC schools you're looking at.

OP here. I cross-posted in the DC Public Schools forum, but the thread was taken down as duplicative. Speaking of this point, however, anyone have any thoughts on how Takoma Park schools compare to those West of the Park in DC?

It depends on the WOTP school. But, speaking in generalities, here is why I chose Takoma Park over a WOTP DCPS school for my kids at the time when we were buying a house:

* Neighborhood schools. Most kids in TKPK and MCPS in general attend their local neighborhood school for ES. Because we don't have charter schools, the options are pretty much your local school or maybe language immersion if you "won" the lottery, but most TKPK kids go to TKPK schools. This makes the elementary school the center of the neighborhood if you have young children, which is nice.

* Similarly, most TKPK kids go to the same middle school. From my child's class, a handful of kids were selected for the Eastern Humanities magnet, but the vast majority of his peers went from PBES to TPMS. No one is applying out in 4th grade to get on the charter school track the way they do in DC.

* There are options for acceleration and differentiation within the public schools, starting in 1st grade for math at TPES. With the exception of dyslexia, which we've established no MCPS school does well, there are really excellent specialized programs for special needs, including an Asperger's Program at a nearby school, and a 2E program that a lot of bright kids with learning disabilities are able to access.

* We wanted the diversity of a Takoma Park school. This may be the biggest difference between the WOTP school listed in the OP (Janney in particular) and TPES/PBES. Janney is predominantly white. Deal isn't, but that's because Deal brings together a handful of predominantly white schools and some predominantly Black schools, creating an integrated middle school. TKPK schools are integrated from the start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blech to this thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-urban-moms-school-segregation-study/2021/03/31/8320b6e4-9160-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html [/quote

Someone has a case of Blair envy.

How did this become Blair-envy? Wasn't the Washington Post article a discussion of this report? The report is about DC schools - not even Montgomery County specifically and does not mention Blair by name at all?

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Discussions_DC_public_school_options_online_forum_Brookings-Report.pdf

MCPS artificially only offers certain classes (ex. math) at Blair HS and has to bus in kids from around the county to attend those classes. If you remove the bussed-in kids and the extra money MCPS pours into the school because of them, not sure what there is to really be envious about?

Those kids and extra funding could be distributed to other schools (ex. the new Crown HS) in a heartbeat to relieve the overcrowding problem at Blair, right? That way there is more equity in the special programs, since more of the county could access them versus catering to the "Blair crowd"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blech to this thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-urban-moms-school-segregation-study/2021/03/31/8320b6e4-9160-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html [/quote

Someone has a case of Blair envy.

How did this become Blair-envy? Wasn't the Washington Post article a discussion of this report? The report is about DC schools - not even Montgomery County specifically and does not mention Blair by name at all?

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Discussions_DC_public_school_options_online_forum_Brookings-Report.pdf

MCPS artificially only offers certain classes (ex. math) at Blair HS and has to bus in kids from around the county to attend those classes. If you remove the bussed-in kids and the extra money MCPS pours into the school because of them, not sure what there is to really be envious about?

Those kids and extra funding could be distributed to other schools (ex. the new Crown HS) in a heartbeat to relieve the overcrowding problem at Blair, right? That way there is more equity in the special programs, since more of the county could access them versus catering to the "Blair crowd"?

Blair envy is a common malady that most often afflicts W parents. Blair proves the whole notion that their segregated schools are somehow better when they fail in any credible comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blair envy is a common malady that most often afflicts W parents. Blair proves the whole notion that their segregated schools are somehow better when they fail in any credible comparison.

Good lord, that Brookings report slamming DCUM for racism rears it's head again!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blech to this thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-urban-moms-school-segregation-study/2021/03/31/8320b6e4-9160-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html [/quote

Someone has a case of Blair envy.

How did this become Blair-envy? Wasn't the Washington Post article a discussion of this report? The report is about DC schools - not even Montgomery County specifically and does not mention Blair by name at all?

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Discussions_DC_public_school_options_online_forum_Brookings-Report.pdf

MCPS artificially only offers certain classes (ex. math) at Blair HS and has to bus in kids from around the county to attend those classes. If you remove the bussed-in kids and the extra money MCPS pours into the school because of them, not sure what there is to really be envious about?

Those kids and extra funding could be distributed to other schools (ex. the new Crown HS) in a heartbeat to relieve the overcrowding problem at Blair, right? That way there is more equity in the special programs, since more of the county could access them versus catering to the "Blair crowd"?

Blair envy is a common malady that most often afflicts W parents. Blair proves the whole notion that their segregated schools are somehow better when they fail in any credible comparison.

So why are a handful of east county white parents in such a hurry to usher in busing? It sounds like you believe they'd be best served at their current schools. And if W school parents believe the same thing, perhaps the BOE should leave everyone where they are and only make moves to relieve overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blair envy is a common malady that most often afflicts W parents. Blair proves the whole notion that their segregated schools are somehow better when they fail in any credible comparison.

Good lord, that Brookings report slamming DCUM for racism rears it's head again!

I love this line “When privileged parents choose, they tend to choose segregation.” That includes parents of color as well. It's almost like race has nothing to do with it and it's purely a class issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blair envy is a common malady that most often afflicts W parents. Blair proves the whole notion that their segregated schools are somehow better when they fail in any credible comparison.

Good lord, that Brookings report slamming DCUM for racism rears it's head again!

I love this line “When privileged parents choose, they tend to choose segregation.” That includes parents of color as well. It's almost like race has nothing to do with it and it's purely a class issue.

Not exactly. Studies show that white families tend to choose schools that have the largest number of people "like them" and will choose a lower-performing school if it has more white kids. Black families will choose the higher performing school even if it means their child is in a small minority.

Because MCPS is so residentially segregated, schools with higher test scores are richer and whiter. But in DCPS, because of the charter system, you have high performing schools that are majority Black and white parents won't go anywhere near them. They prefer to tell themselves that "their" school doesn't teach to the test, and that's why scores are lower. They can't imagine a world in which a school could be both better and Blacker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blair envy is a common malady that most often afflicts W parents. Blair proves the whole notion that their segregated schools are somehow better when they fail in any credible comparison.

Good lord, that Brookings report slamming DCUM for racism rears it's head again!

I love this line “When privileged parents choose, they tend to choose segregation.” That includes parents of color as well. It's almost like race has nothing to do with it and it's purely a class issue.

Not exactly. Studies show that white families tend to choose schools that have the largest number of people "like them" and will choose a lower-performing school if it has more white kids. Black families will choose the higher performing school even if it means their child is in a small minority.

Because MCPS is so residentially segregated, schools with higher test scores are richer and whiter. But in DCPS, because of the charter system, you have high performing schools that are majority Black and white parents won't go anywhere near them. They prefer to tell themselves that "their" school doesn't teach to the test, and that's why scores are lower. They can't imagine a world in which a school could be both better and Blacker.

Even in MCPS a schools composite test average isn't reflective of the school's inherent opportunities to learn. It's just an average that tends to favor schools with fewer poor kids.

For example, some might benefit by attending a focus school with smaller classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blair envy is a common malady that most often afflicts W parents. Blair proves the whole notion that their segregated schools are somehow better when they fail in any credible comparison.

Good lord, that Brookings report slamming DCUM for racism rears it's head again!

I love this line “When privileged parents choose, they tend to choose segregation.” That includes parents of color as well. It's almost like race has nothing to do with it and it's purely a class issue.

Not exactly. Studies show that white families tend to choose schools that have the largest number of people "like them" and will choose a lower-performing school if it has more white kids. Black families will choose the higher performing school even if it means their child is in a small minority.

Because MCPS is so residentially segregated, schools with higher test scores are richer and whiter. But in DCPS, because of the charter system, you have high performing schools that are majority Black and white parents won't go anywhere near them. They prefer to tell themselves that "their" school doesn't teach to the test, and that's why scores are lower. They can't imagine a world in which a school could be both better and Blacker.

WTF? Seriously? Do you have a source for this? Because I'd love to see it and share it with people. Because if this is true, those parents are STOOPID.