S/o: Men, is chivalry dead?

[Anonymous]

I personally don’t mind traditional family structures in civilized societies where men and women have different roles but abuses of power are discouraged by the community. However we are simply shifting now, can’t stop the train. The modern world and especially the nature of work in the modern, which is equally suitable to both men and women, calls for egalitarian family schemes. Chivalry just doesn’t make sense in this context.

The modern man who embraces egalitarianism will be more of a daily partner to his wife on the household front but less inclined to “rescue” her from situations where she doesn’t actually need help just for emotional reasons (just like an egalitarian woman is less likely to make her husband lunches to bring to work because he enjoys the feeling of it). Equal partner is just too big of a mindset shift to take turns selectively infantilizing each other.

I don’t view this as pure progress personally but just a shifting of trade offs. It is what it is, really.

[Anonymous]

Nope
My car broke down in a shopping center, cars just drove by, no one helped me, maybe because I’m non-white, maybe cuz it was NOVA. That was sad. Felt like shit but it happens I suppose. Not everyone has husbands to call on or AAA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outside of the DMV, people do stop and help and make kindness a way of life. Here people glare at you if you dare to even say good morning to a stranger.

They smile and say good morning. You just have to say it first.

Not alway darling, not always. Don’t say hi to me, I’ll give you a “who are you” face.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Outside of the DMV, people do stop and help and make kindness a way of life. Here people glare at you if you dare to even say good morning to a stranger.

Not my experience at all. Plenty of friendly people who smile and say good morning. Not everyone's an uptight, self-important UMC person.

In my experience, plenty of people (of both sexes) still hold doors (for people of both sexes), which strikes me as basic manners not related to chivalry. You should hold the door for someone behind you, not just go through and let it close in their face.

I've also seen people (of both sexes) offer to help someone who is clearly struggling with something or looks lost. Which, again, basic politeness.

The roadside thing is tricky -- as a woman, if my car is dead on the side of the road, and some strange man stops, I'm going to be in my car, doors locked, windows up. At most, you could ask if the police or AAA has already been called.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. I don’t want a man to help me if he wouldn’t do the exact same thing for a man in my situation. I also try to be “chivalrous” and will stop to help people, hold doors open for men and women, etc.

To me it’s less about men helping women, and more about all of us helping each other.

+1

I don't need help *because* I'm a woman; but we all need help sometimes, and the world is a nicer place when we are considerate of each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t stop and help me. I’ll be in my car with the doors locked waiting for roadside assistance. The last thing I want is a strange man approaching... I would be uncomfortable. Sorry. I know you mean well but keep on driving.

isn't the dude roadside assistance called also a stranger?

[Anonymous]

I have stopped for accidents and held doors open for others. But it didn’t matter to me if they were male or female. It was just the right thing to do.

[Anonymous]

Oh please. I'm a middle aged white guy and have lived here most of my life. For me, chivalry means stopping to help someone in need, holding a door open for the next person, introducing people to each other when you know them both and being a good host by paying for a meal/event if you invite people.

Chivalry also means respecting their voice when someone says they don't want your help right now. It also includes stopping (or leaving) the conversation when the group talks about someone as a sex object and sticking your neck out to report sexual harassment when it happens.

[Anonymous]

Yes: chivalry IS dead. Man here, raised with traditional values, used to aspire to be chivalrous. But no more. That all changed thanks to radical Feminism and #metoo and just general perception by women that any kindness means I "expect sex in return" . I treat women EXACTLY as I would some random joe.

Is this not what you wanted ladies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will help either sex, hold doors whatever. I do not stop to help anyone on the side of the road unless I witnessed it. Then I will stop and make sure they are ok

x2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I personally don’t mind traditional family structures in civilized societies where men and women have different roles but abuses of power are discouraged by the community. However we are simply shifting now, can’t stop the train. The modern world and especially the nature of work in the modern, which is equally suitable to both men and women, calls for egalitarian family schemes. Chivalry just doesn’t make sense in this context.

The modern man who embraces egalitarianism will be more of a daily partner to his wife on the household front but less inclined to “rescue” her from situations where she doesn’t actually need help just for emotional reasons (just like an egalitarian woman is less likely to make her husband lunches to bring to work because he enjoys the feeling of it). Equal partner is just too big of a mindset shift to take turns selectively infantilizing each other.

I don’t view this as pure progress personally but just a shifting of trade offs. It is what it is, really.

Chivalric ideals are incredibly classist. Which women deserve protection, and which are fair game for abuse and exploitation, is very much based on class (and in this country, race). Lower class women were expected to do a lot of very hard labor; they were definitely not protected and coddled. And upper-class women were severely constrained in their behavior -- the wrong choices could remove them from the sphere of protection.

And that traditional family structure enables a lot of abuse -- where women are discouraged from paid employment, they are economically dependent on the man, and so more vulnerable to abuse. "Abuses of power" might be officially discouraged, but where the community relies on a certain family structure, there is a strong tendency to look the other way, and to side with the more powerful against the less powerful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes: chivalry IS dead. Man here, raised with traditional values, used to aspire to be chivalrous. But no more. That all changed thanks to radical Feminism and #metoo and just general perception by women that any kindness means I "expect sex in return" . I treat women EXACTLY as I would some random joe.

Is this not what you wanted ladies?

You could start helping random joes as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes: chivalry IS dead. Man here, raised with traditional values, used to aspire to be chivalrous. But no more. That all changed thanks to radical Feminism and #metoo and just general perception by women that any kindness means I "expect sex in return" . I treat women EXACTLY as I would some random joe.

Is this not what you wanted ladies?

Oh no. Please. Stop. We're terrified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes: chivalry IS dead. Man here, raised with traditional values, used to aspire to be chivalrous. But no more. That all changed thanks to radical Feminism and #metoo and just general perception by women that any kindness means I "expect sex in return" . I treat women EXACTLY as I would some random joe.

Is this not what you wanted ladies?

You could start helping random joes as well.

He sounds like the type of guy who says "Equality? Does that mean I can punch women now too?" No, it means you shouldn't be punching anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t stop and help me. I’ll be in my car with the doors locked waiting for roadside assistance. The last thing I want is a strange man approaching... I would be uncomfortable. Sorry. I know you mean well but keep on driving.

isn't the dude roadside assistance called also a stranger?

But (1) you asked that person to help, and (2) there is a record of that person and their interaction with you -- roadside assistance and the tow company know who they dispatched. The person you ask for help is generally less likely to harm you that the person who offers you help, unasked.