Sibling Has Sadly Low Expectations for Nephew

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MYOB. It sounds like they are doing evidence based therapy to deal with aggressive behavior - which absolutely would involve praising incremental improvements like voluntarily giving back items without hitting.

That is very helpful to know. I was not aware of that.

DP. I’m sure it is hard and unpleasant to spend time with your nephew, but do understand that the current recommended practice for modifying behavior like this in kids with many kids of special needs is to ignore bad behavior (literally) and praise good behavior. This method works, but it takes time and is incremental and incredibly frustrating for everyone. It also looks an awful lot like terrible parenting from the outside, which can be a heavy and lonely load for parents to carry. That your sibling is presumably using this method indicates your nephew has a diagnosis of some sort and they are getting professional guidance. I’d offer them as much love and support as you can.

As for your own kids, I’d take them aside and say something like “what Johnny said was not nice. It hurt your feelings. Maybe he’ll say sorry later. He must be having really big feelings right now, so let’s leave him alone for a while.” Language age dependent, of course. But in private reiterate your belief that unkindness isn’t okay, express concern for your own kid’s feelings, and give a little window into the fact that your nephew doesn’t enjoy feeling like this - believe me, he doesn’t. Good luck!

This is OP. I appreciate this thoughtful response. Do you also have recommendations for the smaller "bad" or unkind behavior that the parents might be ignoring as part of their practice but still causes my kids to get upset? I truly want to be supportive of what they are dealing with and the approach they are taking but still have to deal with my kid/the conflict that the behavior creates. I have talked with my kids about only being able to control themselves, being responsible for their own happiness, having empathy for the other kid's feelings, etc... but that doesn't necessarily help in the moment.

It’s hard, isn’t it! Sounds like you are doing a lovely job. I think I’d try to make a distinction in my mind between your sibling parenting their kid and you parenting yours. They should praise your nephew for incremental progress, but that doesn’t need you also need to. If he is mean to your kid, your kid doesn’t need to play with him. If he yells, your kid might need some time away doing something nice with you. Etc. It will mean approaching time with your nephew not as relaxing time to hang out, but work. Remember than every moment for your sibling with your nephew is this kind of work, though. It is unutterably exhausting. You mention in another post that your sibling is always pushing to get the kids together. That is because your nephew needs the practice. He needs to practice getting frustrated and reacting with flexibility and controlling his behavior. Keeping him away from other kids won’t help him develop skills. And of course friends don’t have to put up with bad behavior and so your nephew probably doesn’t have many. So you are their go-to. If you can, accept all the invitations to get together you can. But make them short, and end them if things get unpleasant...with a calm “sorry today was a rough day. We’ll see you again soon.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some people who cannot have my SN child in their home (in my case. Child is messy and destructive, not aggressive)

& that's fine. We meet outside. They also have to act with consideration.

Can you please stick to the topic? Destructive is being aggressive. I have a SN child and years ago we were friendly with another family with a child who was destructive and it greatly upset my child and we had to stop having that child over as the cost of the destructive behavior in terms of replacing and repairs and my child getting upset was not worth it.

Aggressive means hurting others directly. Destructive means hurting objects. It is not the same thing. My child is fine and easy to deal with outside.

Again, you have to do what is right for your child. But destructive and aggressive are totally different things. A child can hit or insultothers yet play nicely with toys, while an intensely sensory seeking, impulsive and clumsy child might mean well but cause damage wherever he goes.

[Anonymous]

Also as a parent of this destructive SN child, I talk to my other kids about it. For example my other kids each have special toys that we keep hidden from this child. Most of our toys as a family are unbreakable.

I explain to my children that he has a different brain, e are trying to help him and need to be patient, but they each have their private things that are just for them as well.

[Anonymous]

PP again. How old are the kids? You say 6 years different. The words you described sound like fairly normal “mean” 8 year old words. Is this an 8 year old and a 6 year old, or a 12 year old and a 6 year old? When my kid was small I found older kids shockingly rude, reckless, and mean to my 2-3 year old. And then my kid got older and he was a jerk to little kids. By 12, though, they have generally matured enough to treat small kids with tolerance. My kid is now 14 is a huge sweetheart with small kids. Your nephew sounds like he is having challenges, for sure, but the age difference may be making things more difficult, too.

[Anonymous]

Sorry. Adding again. I think it's just as important to show empathy for the other kids as for the SN kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it sound like they don't think you are a good place to share all of the circumstances they face.

I would think about why they aren't viewing you as an advocate and why they are viewing you as a judge.

This this this.

This is OP. I have thought about this and think there are a lot of things that contribute to the difficulties communicating about this. But through this all, they have pushed and pushed for our kids to spend a lot of time together. I have felt frustrated, but I have also tried to discuss it with them in the most empathetic, positive and productive way I know how. If they aren't clue me in beyond basically saying you're lucky he's not hitting your kid, but they still want the kids to be together a lot, that puts me in a pretty tough position.

Hi OP. Well, I see your point. But if I were you, I would reread your original post and the title of this thread. I was expecting something very, very different from the situation you claim to face based on "sadly" and "low expectations." You are talking about something completely different.

So I would think again about what you said when you were the most empathetic, positive and productive you knew how to be.

Look. I'm doing my best. Before I started this thread, I didn't know that there were evidence-based practices that would support what I called "low expectations." I can't go back in time, but I am doing my best to move forward and to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP again. How old are the kids? You say 6 years different. The words you described sound like fairly normal “mean” 8 year old words. Is this an 8 year old and a 6 year old, or a 12 year old and a 6 year old? When my kid was small I found older kids shockingly rude, reckless, and mean to my 2-3 year old. And then my kid got older and he was a jerk to little kids. By 12, though, they have generally matured enough to treat small kids with tolerance. My kid is now 14 is a huge sweetheart with small kids. Your nephew sounds like he is having challenges, for sure, but the age difference may be making things more difficult, too.

11 and 5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MYOB. It sounds like they are doing evidence based therapy to deal with aggressive behavior - which absolutely would involve praising incremental improvements like voluntarily giving back items without hitting.

That is very helpful to know. I was not aware of that.

DP. I’m sure it is hard and unpleasant to spend time with your nephew, but do understand that the current recommended practice for modifying behavior like this in kids with many kids of special needs is to ignore bad behavior (literally) and praise good behavior. This method works, but it takes time and is incremental and incredibly frustrating for everyone. It also looks an awful lot like terrible parenting from the outside, which can be a heavy and lonely load for parents to carry. That your sibling is presumably using this method indicates your nephew has a diagnosis of some sort and they are getting professional guidance. I’d offer them as much love and support as you can.

As for your own kids, I’d take them aside and say something like “what Johnny said was not nice. It hurt your feelings. Maybe he’ll say sorry later. He must be having really big feelings right now, so let’s leave him alone for a while.” Language age dependent, of course. But in private reiterate your belief that unkindness isn’t okay, express concern for your own kid’s feelings, and give a little window into the fact that your nephew doesn’t enjoy feeling like this - believe me, he doesn’t. Good luck!

This is OP. I appreciate this thoughtful response. Do you also have recommendations for the smaller "bad" or unkind behavior that the parents might be ignoring as part of their practice but still causes my kids to get upset? I truly want to be supportive of what they are dealing with and the approach they are taking but still have to deal with my kid/the conflict that the behavior creates. I have talked with my kids about only being able to control themselves, being responsible for their own happiness, having empathy for the other kid's feelings, etc... but that doesn't necessarily help in the moment.

It’s hard, isn’t it! Sounds like you are doing a lovely job. I think I’d try to make a distinction in my mind between your sibling parenting their kid and you parenting yours. They should praise your nephew for incremental progress, but that doesn’t need you also need to. If he is mean to your kid, your kid doesn’t need to play with him. If he yells, your kid might need some time away doing something nice with you. Etc. It will mean approaching time with your nephew not as relaxing time to hang out, but work. Remember than every moment for your sibling with your nephew is this kind of work, though. It is unutterably exhausting. You mention in another post that your sibling is always pushing to get the kids together. That is because your nephew needs the practice. He needs to practice getting frustrated and reacting with flexibility and controlling his behavior. Keeping him away from other kids won’t help him develop skills. And of course friends don’t have to put up with bad behavior and so your nephew probably doesn’t have many. So you are their go-to. If you can, accept all the invitations to get together you can. But make them short, and end them if things get unpleasant...with a calm “sorry today was a rough day. We’ll see you again soon.”

Thanks for this. I think that mindset switch is a good one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MYOB. It sounds like they are doing evidence based therapy to deal with aggressive behavior - which absolutely would involve praising incremental improvements like voluntarily giving back items without hitting.

That is very helpful to know. I was not aware of that.

DP. I’m sure it is hard and unpleasant to spend time with your nephew, but do understand that the current recommended practice for modifying behavior like this in kids with many kids of special needs is to ignore bad behavior (literally) and praise good behavior. This method works, but it takes time and is incremental and incredibly frustrating for everyone. It also looks an awful lot like terrible parenting from the outside, which can be a heavy and lonely load for parents to carry. That your sibling is presumably using this method indicates your nephew has a diagnosis of some sort and they are getting professional guidance. I’d offer them as much love and support as you can.

As for your own kids, I’d take them aside and say something like “what Johnny said was not nice. It hurt your feelings. Maybe he’ll say sorry later. He must be having really big feelings right now, so let’s leave him alone for a while.” Language age dependent, of course. But in private reiterate your belief that unkindness isn’t okay, express concern for your own kid’s feelings, and give a little window into the fact that your nephew doesn’t enjoy feeling like this - believe me, he doesn’t. Good luck!

This is OP. I appreciate this thoughtful response. Do you also have recommendations for the smaller "bad" or unkind behavior that the parents might be ignoring as part of their practice but still causes my kids to get upset? I truly want to be supportive of what they are dealing with and the approach they are taking but still have to deal with my kid/the conflict that the behavior creates. I have talked with my kids about only being able to control themselves, being responsible for their own happiness, having empathy for the other kid's feelings, etc... but that doesn't necessarily help in the moment.

It’s hard, isn’t it! Sounds like you are doing a lovely job. I think I’d try to make a distinction in my mind between your sibling parenting their kid and you parenting yours. They should praise your nephew for incremental progress, but that doesn’t need you also need to. If he is mean to your kid, your kid doesn’t need to play with him. If he yells, your kid might need some time away doing something nice with you. Etc. It will mean approaching time with your nephew not as relaxing time to hang out, but work. Remember than every moment for your sibling with your nephew is this kind of work, though. It is unutterably exhausting. You mention in another post that your sibling is always pushing to get the kids together. That is because your nephew needs the practice. He needs to practice getting frustrated and reacting with flexibility and controlling his behavior. Keeping him away from other kids won’t help him develop skills. And of course friends don’t have to put up with bad behavior and so your nephew probably doesn’t have many. So you are their go-to. If you can, accept all the invitations to get together you can. But make them short, and end them if things get unpleasant...with a calm “sorry today was a rough day. We’ll see you again soon.”

Thanks for this. I think that mindset switch is a good one.

This PP had really good advice and points to understand. OP thank you for trying you are absolutely doing the right thing. There are so many who would just move on and say we will distance ourselves from them (even though they are family-especially the DCUM crowd)

[Anonymous]

Is he asking for your input? Then don’t say anything.

Are you seeing something CPS needs to know about? Then call CPS.

Spend less time with them if you’re concerned for the well being of your kids.

This feels like concern trolling. Worry about your side of the street and your own kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is he asking for your input? Then don’t say anything.

Are you seeing something CPS needs to know about? Then call CPS.

Spend less time with them if you’re concerned for the well being of your kids.

This feels like concern trolling. Worry about your side of the street and your own kids.

What are you talking about? This is OP's family. OP says the sibling wants the kids to get together. If this was a post about some random kid at the park, your comments might make sense.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have an 11 year old boy. He is at a very different place in his childhood than your kid is. Honestly, kids at this "middle school" age regularly say rude things to each other and to younger children. They are testing out social dynamics and a lot of this playground talk is way different than what a 5 yo would say.

I would not really encourage them to play together. It's just too different in age. I am frankly surprised your nephew will play with your child at all. My 11 yo has no interest in 5 year olds at all. He isn't mean to them, he just ignores them completely. He'd rather go read or find someone to play video games with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he asking for your input? Then don’t say anything.

Are you seeing something CPS needs to know about? Then call CPS.

Spend less time with them if you’re concerned for the well being of your kids.

This feels like concern trolling. Worry about your side of the street and your own kids.

What are you talking about? This is OP's family. OP says the sibling wants the kids to get together. If this was a post about some random kid at the park, your comments might make sense.

I’m the PP. I come from a family of gossips and busy bodies who all operate under the auspices of “concern” and “love”, but really just want an excuse to talk smack about each other.

Not saying that’s the OP, but I will say most of the time someone is “concerned” about someone else’s parenting, there is zero that can be done and it’s best to just be supportive and up beat.

I’m also the mom of a kid with special needs and feel like OP has NO IDEA what her brother is facing and how hard it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP again. How old are the kids? You say 6 years different. The words you described sound like fairly normal “mean” 8 year old words. Is this an 8 year old and a 6 year old, or a 12 year old and a 6 year old? When my kid was small I found older kids shockingly rude, reckless, and mean to my 2-3 year old. And then my kid got older and he was a jerk to little kids. By 12, though, they have generally matured enough to treat small kids with tolerance. My kid is now 14 is a huge sweetheart with small kids. Your nephew sounds like he is having challenges, for sure, but the age difference may be making things more difficult, too.

11 and 5

Hmm. Yes, 11 year old has challenges if he is actively mean to 5 year old (which clearly he is). But most 11 year old boys have zero desire to play with 5 year olds. Many can be rude and have to be parented into being good human beings to young kids. So while his behavior is not age-appropriate, the lack of harmonious play is pretty common. Still, they are cousins and hopefully will have life long relationships, so keeping short, positive family interaction is important. But I wouldn’t expect them to play together unless a grown up is facilitating it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have an 11 year old boy. He is at a very different place in his childhood than your kid is. Honestly, kids at this "middle school" age regularly say rude things to each other and to younger children. They are testing out social dynamics and a lot of this playground talk is way different than what a 5 yo would say.

I would not really encourage them to play together. It's just too different in age. I am frankly surprised your nephew will play with your child at all. My 11 yo has no interest in 5 year olds at all. He isn't mean to them, he just ignores them completely. He'd rather go read or find someone to play video games with.

I have a middle schooler. If anything is even remotely rude we correct it. Parenting doesn't stop at middle school.