Top Christian Rock singer abandons his faith

[Anonymous]

Now we get to tell others what they believe? Awesome! Hey Christians, you believe Jesus was a cheese maker who lived in Kansas who was god’s pet hamster.

This is fun!

/atheists lack a begin gods. End period.

[Anonymous]

Good for him! I hope he and his wife have supportive people around them and can find peace now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of us have turned from organized religion to a spiritual practice - basically leaving organized religious dogma aside and developing a relationship with God through personal spiritual practice. There are many forms of community available.

And some of us have moved from a nebulous "spiritual practice" to fairly strict Christian sects! To each her own.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

But agnostics also claim that they don't know definitively in the existence of a god whereas atheists claim that they know there is no god. If they claim they don't know because it's unknowable, then they would be an agnostic.

This is my DH. He said he's an atheist, then we started talking about it more, and he said that he didn't really know, to which I then said, "then wouldn't that make you an agnostic rather than an atheist?", and he said, "I guess so".

IMO, those are two separate belief systems.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

Perhaps you don't like to think of your DH as being an atheist, so have concocted this idea of not knowing vs not believing. But if DH doesn't believe in God, he is an atheist -- and can still be a nice guy.

Oh, he's a great guy. That's why we are still married

But it's true that most people confuse the two terms, and he said he doesn't know that there is a god or not, not that he doesn't believe that there is no god. Again, two different things.

Right. He is exactly like nearly all the other atheists. It’s a highly reasonable position that makes no definitive claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

Thank you for that analysis. It was very Christ-like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes you wonder how other "faith leaders" feel or if it is just an act.

Sounds like he did not have a mentor or teacher in the faith to guide him and answer questions.

Seriously, Osmbund, Falwell, all just actors and showman in it for money. They are like the antithesis of how Jesus lived.

+1

And all the money they make off of religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

But agnostics also claim that they don't know definitively in the existence of a god whereas atheists claim that they know there is no god. If they claim they don't know because it's unknowable, then they would be an agnostic.

This is my DH. He said he's an atheist, then we started talking about it more, and he said that he didn't really know, to which I then said, "then wouldn't that make you an agnostic rather than an atheist?", and he said, "I guess so".

IMO, those are two separate belief systems.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

Perhaps you don't like to think of your DH as being an atheist, so have concocted this idea of not knowing vs not believing. But if DH doesn't believe in God, he is an atheist -- and can still be a nice guy.

Oh, he's a great guy. That's why we are still married

But it's true that most people confuse the two terms, and he said he doesn't know that there is a god or not, not that he doesn't believe that there is no god. Again, two different things.

It can get pretty confusing. Believing there is no god is different from claiming to know there is no god.

Your husband may well be an agnostic only (not knowing and presumably not thinking about what he believes) but most if not all atheists will say they are agnostic AND atheist (not knowing and not believing) but some may choose to identify primarily as atheist because they know that they don't believe. Others choose agnostic, in some cases because it sounds less harsh than "atheist."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts?

https://loudwire.com/hawk-nelson-jon-steingard-no-longer-believe-in-god

Young people need to be trained in apologetics.

Most high profile Christians (pastors, singers) don't reject their faith for intellectual reasons, but for moral ones. Wait awhile and you'll hear about an affair, a struggle with porn, coming out as gay, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

Thank you for that analysis. It was very Christ-like.

Your sarcasm is noted, but it's also misplaced. There's nothing un-Christlike about criticizing someone like Jon Steingard. The Bible doesn't have anything good to say about false preachers like this, either.

Steingard's Instagram post is self-centered and self-serving. He admits he's been exploiting actual Christians for personal gain for quite awhile now. And instead of just quitting it, he uses his platform as a means to deliver a sermon of apostasy to the very people who have supported him for years. It's nothing but a big eff you aimed directly at people he apparently holds in contempt. He's been pretending he's something he's not, and, oh, look at that, he made money and fame doing it.

And he thinks he's being honest? I'm sure he's enjoying all the new adulation for his supposed bravery and honesty. He's so refreshing.

This is nauseating. In addition to poser and coward, I'll add opportunist. What a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

Thank you for that analysis. It was very Christ-like.

Your sarcasm is noted, but it's also misplaced. There's nothing un-Christlike about criticizing someone like Jon Steingard. The Bible doesn't have anything good to say about false preachers like this, either.

Steingard's Instagram post is self-centered and self-serving. He admits he's been exploiting actual Christians for personal gain for quite awhile now. And instead of just quitting it, he uses his platform as a means to deliver a sermon of apostasy to the very people who have supported him for years. It's nothing but a big eff you aimed directly at people he apparently holds in contempt. He's been pretending he's something he's not, and, oh, look at that, he made money and fame doing it.

And he thinks he's being honest? I'm sure he's enjoying all the new adulation for his supposed bravery and honesty. He's so refreshing.

This is nauseating. In addition to poser and coward, I'll add opportunist. What a joke.

Has it occurred to you that he didn't go from Christian to non-believer overnight? That he had doubts, as many Christians do, for a long time before finally realizing that the doubts had turned to disbelief? That he fought his doubts, as Christians are taught to do, until he lost the battle against them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

Thank you for that analysis. It was very Christ-like.

Your sarcasm is noted, but it's also misplaced. There's nothing un-Christlike about criticizing someone like Jon Steingard. The Bible doesn't have anything good to say about false preachers like this, either.

Steingard's Instagram post is self-centered and self-serving. He admits he's been exploiting actual Christians for personal gain for quite awhile now. And instead of just quitting it, he uses his platform as a means to deliver a sermon of apostasy to the very people who have supported him for years. It's nothing but a big eff you aimed directly at people he apparently holds in contempt. He's been pretending he's something he's not, and, oh, look at that, he made money and fame doing it.

And he thinks he's being honest? I'm sure he's enjoying all the new adulation for his supposed bravery and honesty. He's so refreshing.

This is nauseating. In addition to poser and coward, I'll add opportunist. What a joke.

Has it occurred to you that he didn't go from Christian to non-believer overnight? That he had doubts, as many Christians do, for a long time before finally realizing that the doubts had turned to disbelief? That he fought his doubts, as Christians are taught to do, until he lost the battle against them?

That's irrelevant. My problem with this isn't that he had his doubts; my problem is that while he was thinking he didn't believe, while he didn't like going to church and reading the Bible, he still maintained a false Christian persona because it brought him the things he wanted. And my huge problem with him is that once he decided in his heart there is no God, he then attacked those people who gave him everything he had with those doubts. That stupid "no sweater needed" at the end of his long, self-serving post was a big, smarmy middle finger to all the Christians who liked the music he was mendaciously singing to them for however many years. And I'm sure he's eating up all the "You're so brave. You're so honest" responses he's been getting from other non-believers, because it validates their own rejection of Christianity. He's the furthest thing from honest, and he's an opportunist, not brave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts?

https://loudwire.com/hawk-nelson-jon-steingard-no-longer-believe-in-god

Young people need to be trained in apologetics.

Most high profile Christians (pastors, singers) don't reject their faith for intellectual reasons, but for moral ones. Wait awhile and you'll hear about an affair, a struggle with porn, coming out as gay, etc.

DP.. that doesn't mean that they don't believe in God. Christians are humans. They are just as sinful as everyone else, and that's why Christians should be humble about sin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

Thank you for that analysis. It was very Christ-like.

Your sarcasm is noted, but it's also misplaced. There's nothing un-Christlike about criticizing someone like Jon Steingard. The Bible doesn't have anything good to say about false preachers like this, either.

Steingard's Instagram post is self-centered and self-serving. He admits he's been exploiting actual Christians for personal gain for quite awhile now. And instead of just quitting it, he uses his platform as a means to deliver a sermon of apostasy to the very people who have supported him for years. It's nothing but a big eff you aimed directly at people he apparently holds in contempt. He's been pretending he's something he's not, and, oh, look at that, he made money and fame doing it.

And he thinks he's being honest? I'm sure he's enjoying all the new adulation for his supposed bravery and honesty. He's so refreshing.

This is nauseating. In addition to poser and coward, I'll add opportunist. What a joke.

Has it occurred to you that he didn't go from Christian to non-believer overnight? That he had doubts, as many Christians do, for a long time before finally realizing that the doubts had turned to disbelief? That he fought his doubts, as Christians are taught to do, until he lost the battle against them?

That's irrelevant. My problem with this isn't that he had his doubts; my problem is that while he was thinking he didn't believe, while he didn't like going to church and reading the Bible, he still maintained a false Christian persona because it brought him the things he wanted. And my huge problem with him is that once he decided in his heart there is no God, he then attacked those people who gave him everything he had with those doubts. That stupid "no sweater needed" at the end of his long, self-serving post was a big, smarmy middle finger to all the Christians who liked the music he was mendaciously singing to them for however many years. And I'm sure he's eating up all the "You're so brave. You're so honest" responses he's been getting from other non-believers, because it validates their own rejection of Christianity. He's the furthest thing from honest, and he's an opportunist, not brave.

For most people who go through faith conversions, it’s a process. Usually a complicated process. One doesn’t lose their qualification as a Christian if they have doubts or don’t enjoy going to church.

Who really thinks that an unexamined, unquestioned faith is a stronger one? Doubts don’t make a person a false Christian.

[Anonymous]

I’m with the poster who believes there was a fundamental element of dishonesty here. He did not just sing Christian songs to make a living. You don’t have to be a believer to sing catchy songs with words you don’t believe. But these types of artists go on Christian radio and go to churches and talk about faith and spirituality and what they do is considered a form of ministry. But he never had a spiritual practice- he didn’t want to go to church or read the Bible or pray. That’s absolutely fine. Then why did he choose this career and all that it entails? Was he active in promoting himself in churches... and lying about his relationship with God? He grew up in the church, he knew what he was signing up for. Why didn’t he get any mentorship or guidance about his spiritual life? I don’t understand any of this and I don’t know why he didn’t back out of his career FIRST when he realized he was having these issues. But I can’t judge his doubting his faith, that is something everyone goes through at one point, and we are all allowed to come to our own conclusions. I just wonder what he was going out and tell people during this entire period as someone who actually had a ministry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

Thank you for that analysis. It was very Christ-like.

Your sarcasm is noted, but it's also misplaced. There's nothing un-Christlike about criticizing someone like Jon Steingard. The Bible doesn't have anything good to say about false preachers like this, either.

Steingard's Instagram post is self-centered and self-serving. He admits he's been exploiting actual Christians for personal gain for quite awhile now. And instead of just quitting it, he uses his platform as a means to deliver a sermon of apostasy to the very people who have supported him for years. It's nothing but a big eff you aimed directly at people he apparently holds in contempt. He's been pretending he's something he's not, and, oh, look at that, he made money and fame doing it.

And he thinks he's being honest? I'm sure he's enjoying all the new adulation for his supposed bravery and honesty. He's so refreshing.

This is nauseating. In addition to poser and coward, I'll add opportunist. What a joke.

Has it occurred to you that he didn't go from Christian to non-believer overnight? That he had doubts, as many Christians do, for a long time before finally realizing that the doubts had turned to disbelief? That he fought his doubts, as Christians are taught to do, until he lost the battle against them?

That's irrelevant. My problem with this isn't that he had his doubts; my problem is that while he was thinking he didn't believe, while he didn't like going to church and reading the Bible, he still maintained a false Christian persona because it brought him the things he wanted. And my huge problem with him is that once he decided in his heart there is no God, he then attacked those people who gave him everything he had with those doubts. That stupid "no sweater needed" at the end of his long, self-serving post was a big, smarmy middle finger to all the Christians who liked the music he was mendaciously singing to them for however many years. And I'm sure he's eating up all the "You're so brave. You're so honest" responses he's been getting from other non-believers, because it validates their own rejection of Christianity. He's the furthest thing from honest, and he's an opportunist, not brave.

For most people who go through faith conversions, it’s a process. Usually a complicated process. One doesn’t lose their qualification as a Christian if they have doubts or don’t enjoy going to church.

Who really thinks that an unexamined, unquestioned faith is a stronger one? Doubts don’t make a person a false Christian.

I'm not sure what you mean. He didn't lose his qualification as a Christian because he had doubts. He lost his qualification as a Christian because he doesn't believe in God. And the Bible itself says that once you put your faith in Christ, God Himself will root and establish you in your faith and keep you close to Him, even when you doubt. If you reject that faith, it means you never actually had it (again, read 1 John 2:19). Yes, pretty much all Christians have times when they question what's going on, but if you are an actual believer, there are mature ways to seek answers to those questions, and the LORD will keep you through them. But if you reject Him entirely, you're not willing to learn. Read Steingard's Instagram post: His questions weren't questions -- they were his own answers in themselves. He presented the questions themselves as their own evidence for his disbelief. Steingard wasn't going through a "faith conversion." He was going through a faith denial, and that he felt a need to use the platform that Christians gave him to sow seeds of doubt and distrust among them says all you need to know about where his heart is.