Top Christian Rock singer abandons his faith

[Anonymous]

Wish all these loudmouth proselytizers would give it up. The world would be a better place if religion was private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

[Anonymous]

Many of us have turned from organized religion to a spiritual practice - basically leaving organized religious dogma aside and developing a relationship with God through personal spiritual practice. There are many forms of community available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I've read this about his bravery and courage, too, but I don't see it. He explicitly says he felt it was a good time to drop this bomb on his fan base because they were no longer making any records or touring, i.e., no longer making money. Seems more like a coward to me. Now that his fans are no longer making any money, he probably has his eyes on a different crowd to make money from.

I was amused by his statement, "I hope this isn't the end of the conversation, but the beginning," but then later said, "I don't want a debate." He asks questions -- which are trite and superficial and have actual theological responses -- but doesn't want any answers.

This guy was never a Christian. Christians don't renounce their faith (1 John 2:19). He's been duping people for profit his entire professional career. By his own admission, he didn't like praying, didn't like going to church and didn't like reading the Bible. Christians like doing these things. He pretended because it brought him a certain amount of adulation and money and because he wanted to be a rock star.

As a Christian, this thing makes me angry. I hope he actually finds the LORD, but he has never been a believer, and now he wants to be held up as some kind of wise, enlightened post-Christian who can critique the faith. He has nothing to offer in this regard. He's a poser and a coward.

By your definition, you can’t be considered a Christian until you die without having renounced your faith. Sorry- it must be tough to have your own words come back to bite you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

This is not how most atheists think. Most require evidence to believe something and understand that you can’t prove a negative.

Lack of belief is exactly that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts?

https://loudwire.com/hawk-nelson-jon-steingard-no-longer-believe-in-god

Young people need to be trained in apologetics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

But agnostics also claim that they don't know definitively in the existence of a god whereas atheists claim that they know there is no god. If they claim they don't know because it's unknowable, then they would be an agnostic.

This is my DH. He said he's an atheist, then we started talking about it more, and he said that he didn't really know, to which I then said, "then wouldn't that make you an agnostic rather than an atheist?", and he said, "I guess so".

IMO, those are two separate belief systems.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

This is not how most atheists think. Most require evidence to believe something and understand that you can’t prove a negative.

Lack of belief is exactly that.

That's because most people are confused about the definition difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

But agnostics also claim that they don't know definitively in the existence of a god whereas atheists claim that they know there is no god. If they claim they don't know because it's unknowable, then they would be an agnostic.

This is my DH. He said he's an atheist, then we started talking about it more, and he said that he didn't really know, to which I then said, "then wouldn't that make you an agnostic rather than an atheist?", and he said, "I guess so".
IMO, those are two separate belief systems.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

No, atheists don't claim that they know there is no god. There is no way that they could know and they are aware of that. There is no proof of god, which is why religion depends on "faith" and "belief." Atheists just don't believe in God.

Plus neither agnosticism nor atheism is a "belief system" - they are just attitudes about God. Agnosticism puts the emphasis on not knowing and atheism puts the emphasis on not believing.

As a pp said, people often identify as both: Agnostic atheist -- they don't know and they don't believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

But agnostics also claim that they don't know definitively in the existence of a god whereas atheists claim that they know there is no god. If they claim they don't know because it's unknowable, then they would be an agnostic.

This is my DH. He said he's an atheist, then we started talking about it more, and he said that he didn't really know, to which I then said, "then wouldn't that make you an agnostic rather than an atheist?", and he said, "I guess so".

IMO, those are two separate belief systems.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

By the way, I looked up your definition and it says nothing about "belief systems" and nothing about atheists claiming to know there is no God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

But agnostics also claim that they don't know definitively in the existence of a god whereas atheists claim that they know there is no god. If they claim they don't know because it's unknowable, then they would be an agnostic.

This is my DH. He said he's an atheist, then we started talking about it more, and he said that he didn't really know, to which I then said, "then wouldn't that make you an agnostic rather than an atheist?", and he said, "I guess so".

IMO, those are two separate belief systems.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

Perhaps you don't like to think of your DH as being an atheist, so have concocted this idea of not knowing vs not believing. But if DH doesn't believe in God, he is an atheist -- and can still be a nice guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read his account on IG and quite frankly I admire his bravery. It has to be extraordinary daunting to come out as an atheist when you have built up a huge base of supporters who follow and support you strictly for your Christianity.

I don't think he's an atheist. I think he is an agnostic and grappling with the existence of God in a world filled with pain.

As you should know, you can be both agnostic and atheist, and nearly all atheists are so.

Then they are not real atheists. They are agnostics. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a god, while an agnostic does not know if one exists and believes that it cannot be proven either way. One belief is definite, while the other is not.

You can not believe in the existence of a god and also recognize that it can’t be proven either way.

But agnostics also claim that they don't know definitively in the existence of a god whereas atheists claim that they know there is no god. If they claim they don't know because it's unknowable, then they would be an agnostic.

This is my DH. He said he's an atheist, then we started talking about it more, and he said that he didn't really know, to which I then said, "then wouldn't that make you an agnostic rather than an atheist?", and he said, "I guess so".

IMO, those are two separate belief systems.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

Perhaps you don't like to think of your DH as being an atheist, so have concocted this idea of not knowing vs not believing. But if DH doesn't believe in God, he is an atheist -- and can still be a nice guy.

Oh, he's a great guy. That's why we are still married

But it's true that most people confuse the two terms, and he said he doesn't know that there is a god or not, not that he doesn't believe that there is no god. Again, two different things.