Middle of divorce and job loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

No my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

Why should he agree that his RSU's are marital property? He got a new job after the date of separation - usually it is the move out date, not the filing date but it depends on the state. You do not have a right to his stock if it was earned after the marriage ended. You may have a claim to his pension but it depends on the state and you wouldn't get the pension until he collects it. You both need to split your retirement plans in 1/2 - anything you earned during the marriage he is also entitled to 1/2.

You are not entitled to future help. Sounds like money is a huge issue and maybe your child would be better off with Dad.

You are going to war with him and demanding what isn't yours.

You need to focus on getting a job vs. sticking it to him. Any job at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

ion my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

You are not going to agree on the date of separation to be after he was granted the RSUs. Think logically.

At this point let go of the discussion on his retirement. You are entitled to half that he earned when married, NOT half of what he has. Remember right now his retirement account is circling the drain. You need to wait for the market to bounce back. This buys you time since you don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer right now.

For insurance, get the child on your exes plan. You do not go on the plan. Continue your COBRA. If he’s vindictive you don’t want to be at his mercy to him dropping your coverage on a whim.

For now your #1 priority is getting a job. Focus on that. Bide you’re time on the financial settlement.

NP here and this shouldn't technically matter. Get a QDRO, split the shares and roll your shares over into an IRA. Yours and his will both bounce back when the market does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

ion my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

You are not going to agree on the date of separation to be after he was granted the RSUs. Think logically.

At this point let go of the discussion on his retirement. You are entitled to half that he earned when married, NOT half of what he has. Remember right now his retirement account is circling the drain. You need to wait for the market to bounce back. This buys you time since you don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer right now.

For insurance, get the child on your exes plan. You do not go on the plan. Continue your COBRA. If he’s vindictive you don’t want to be at his mercy to him dropping your coverage on a whim.

For now your #1 priority is getting a job. Focus on that. Bide you’re time on the financial settlement.

NP here and this shouldn't technically matter. Get a QDRO, split the shares and roll your shares over into an IRA. Yours and his will both bounce back when the market does.

She also needs to give him half of her retirement too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

ion my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

You are not going to agree on the date of separation to be after he was granted the RSUs. Think logically.

At this point let go of the discussion on his retirement. You are entitled to half that he earned when married, NOT half of what he has. Remember right now his retirement account is circling the drain. You need to wait for the market to bounce back. This buys you time since you don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer right now.

For insurance, get the child on your exes plan. You do not go on the plan. Continue your COBRA. If he’s vindictive you don’t want to be at his mercy to him dropping your coverage on a whim.

For now your #1 priority is getting a job. Focus on that. Bide you’re time on the financial settlement.

NP here and this shouldn't technically matter. Get a QDRO, split the shares and roll your shares over into an IRA. Yours and his will both bounce back when the market does.

She also needs to give him half of her retirement too.

You don’t typically do that. With OP being the lower earning spouse her retirement is probably less. So the amount she would give him from her account is usually offset from what she would get from his. 1 transaction versus 2.

And the other PP is correct about the value not really mattering except that many women cash out the retirement because they need the money right away. OP has mentioned money being tight especially with her being laid off. If that was her plan, then now is not the best time to move forward.

[Anonymous]

OP here: no, I was not going to cash out.
It's just dragging on and on: first, stbx does not have his grant agreement and doesn't want to ask HR, so I would need to pay for the employment record subpoena (stbx is strangely ok with being subpoenaed).
then, there would be some valuation process for the shares (which I can theoretically do myself as per formula) - but it takes time.
then there is the preparation of agreement and judgement documents (about 4 hrs of lawyer time)
then negotiations start, stbx does not have a lawyer yet and I think we can avoid it, but that will be a drawn out process I think (at least 2 hrs)
I mean, we are looking at about 7 hrs x 350 here... If I were employed, I would go for it. As it is, I am not sure if I should proceed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: no, I was not going to cash out.
It's just dragging on and on: first, stbx does not have his grant agreement and doesn't want to ask HR, so I would need to pay for the employment record subpoena (stbx is strangely ok with being subpoenaed).
then, there would be some valuation process for the shares (which I can theoretically do myself as per formula) - but it takes time.
then there is the preparation of agreement and judgement documents (about 4 hrs of lawyer time)
then negotiations start, stbx does not have a lawyer yet and I think we can avoid it, but that will be a drawn out process I think (at least 2 hrs)
I mean, we are looking at about 7 hrs x 350 here... If I were employed, I would go for it. As it is, I am not sure if I should proceed.

None of that matters since you’re not entitled to those RSUs.

You’re going to spend a heck of a lot more than 7 hours of legal time since you will not accept that. Makes the lawyer rich and you even more poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: no, I was not going to cash out.
It's just dragging on and on: first, stbx does not have his grant agreement and doesn't want to ask HR, so I would need to pay for the employment record subpoena (stbx is strangely ok with being subpoenaed).
then, there would be some valuation process for the shares (which I can theoretically do myself as per formula) - but it takes time.
then there is the preparation of agreement and judgement documents (about 4 hrs of lawyer time)
then negotiations start, stbx does not have a lawyer yet and I think we can avoid it, but that will be a drawn out process I think (at least 2 hrs)
I mean, we are looking at about 7 hrs x 350 here... If I were employed, I would go for it. As it is, I am not sure if I should proceed.

None of that matters since you’re not entitled to those RSUs.

You’re going to spend a heck of a lot more than 7 hours of legal time since you will not accept that. Makes the lawyer rich and you even more poor.

How are you entitled to them as he moved out and you were legally separated per your filing in court before he got the job and awarded the RSU's? It may count in child support but stop being greedy. It also may not be that much as if he got his first award so you may spend more in attorney fees than you'd get. If you make $60K, when you work, how are you affording all these attorney fees? This was not earned during marriage. This was earned after. You choose to divorce. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

ion my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

You are not going to agree on the date of separation to be after he was granted the RSUs. Think logically.

At this point let go of the discussion on his retirement. You are entitled to half that he earned when married, NOT half of what he has. Remember right now his retirement account is circling the drain. You need to wait for the market to bounce back. This buys you time since you don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer right now.

For insurance, get the child on your exes plan. You do not go on the plan. Continue your COBRA. If he’s vindictive you don’t want to be at his mercy to him dropping your coverage on a whim.

For now your #1 priority is getting a job. Focus on that. Bide you’re time on the financial settlement.

NP here and this shouldn't technically matter. Get a QDRO, split the shares and roll your shares over into an IRA. Yours and his will both bounce back when the market does.

She also needs to give him half of her retirement too.

You don’t typically do that. With OP being the lower earning spouse her retirement is probably less. So the amount she would give him from her account is usually offset from what she would get from his. 1 transaction versus 2.

And the other PP is correct about the value not really mattering except that many women cash out the retirement because they need the money right away. OP has mentioned money being tight especially with her being laid off. If that was her plan, then now is not the best time to move forward.

Hers will be offset with his but she isn't offering half of hers to him. She wants half of everything of his, including what she's not entitled to and wants to keep everything she has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

ion my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

You are not going to agree on the date of separation to be after he was granted the RSUs. Think logically.

At this point let go of the discussion on his retirement. You are entitled to half that he earned when married, NOT half of what he has. Remember right now his retirement account is circling the drain. You need to wait for the market to bounce back. This buys you time since you don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer right now.

For insurance, get the child on your exes plan. You do not go on the plan. Continue your COBRA. If he’s vindictive you don’t want to be at his mercy to him dropping your coverage on a whim.

For now your #1 priority is getting a job. Focus on that. Bide you’re time on the financial settlement.

NP here and this shouldn't technically matter. Get a QDRO, split the shares and roll your shares over into an IRA. Yours and his will both bounce back when the market does.

She also needs to give him half of her retirement too.

PP here and I assumed they would net it out and I, perhaps mistakenly, assumed his retirement was larger. Presumably they are invested in relatively similar funds such as a target date retirement fund.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: no, I was not going to cash out.
It's just dragging on and on: first, stbx does not have his grant agreement and doesn't want to ask HR, so I would need to pay for the employment record subpoena (stbx is strangely ok with being subpoenaed).
then, there would be some valuation process for the shares (which I can theoretically do myself as per formula) - but it takes time.
then there is the preparation of agreement and judgement documents (about 4 hrs of lawyer time)
then negotiations start, stbx does not have a lawyer yet and I think we can avoid it, but that will be a drawn out process I think (at least 2 hrs)
I mean, we are looking at about 7 hrs x 350 here... If I were employed, I would go for it. As it is, I am not sure if I should proceed.

Does your state not recognize the concept of a request for production of documents from the other party? We have such a thing in VA and it's different than a subpoena in that the receiving party cannot charge a fee for production of those documents. It is pretty wide-ranging and can cover things not in their possession but that they have access too (i.e. bank statements, pay stubs, etc.). Does your state not recognize interrogatories? You could get that information this way as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: no, I was not going to cash out.
It's just dragging on and on: first, stbx does not have his grant agreement and doesn't want to ask HR, so I would need to pay for the employment record subpoena (stbx is strangely ok with being subpoenaed).
then, there would be some valuation process for the shares (which I can theoretically do myself as per formula) - but it takes time.
then there is the preparation of agreement and judgement documents (about 4 hrs of lawyer time)
then negotiations start, stbx does not have a lawyer yet and I think we can avoid it, but that will be a drawn out process I think (at least 2 hrs)
I mean, we are looking at about 7 hrs x 350 here... If I were employed, I would go for it. As it is, I am not sure if I should proceed.

Does your state not recognize the concept of a request for production of documents from the other party? We have such a thing in VA and it's different than a subpoena in that the receiving party cannot charge a fee for production of those documents. It is pretty wide-ranging and can cover things not in their possession but that they have access too (i.e. bank statements, pay stubs, etc.). Does your state not recognize interrogatories? You could get that information this way as well.

I know this sounds weird but it is easier and quicker for me to get the docs from his employer than from him (he is going to drag it on, and if I press him by legal means... it's just not how it works among us so far. We are amicable on the surface yet I need him to do something he doesn't want to do). It is more expensive, I realize that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: no, I was not going to cash out.
It's just dragging on and on: first, stbx does not have his grant agreement and doesn't want to ask HR, so I would need to pay for the employment record subpoena (stbx is strangely ok with being subpoenaed).
then, there would be some valuation process for the shares (which I can theoretically do myself as per formula) - but it takes time.
then there is the preparation of agreement and judgement documents (about 4 hrs of lawyer time)
then negotiations start, stbx does not have a lawyer yet and I think we can avoid it, but that will be a drawn out process I think (at least 2 hrs)
I mean, we are looking at about 7 hrs x 350 here... If I were employed, I would go for it. As it is, I am not sure if I should proceed.

Does your state not recognize the concept of a request for production of documents from the other party? We have such a thing in VA and it's different than a subpoena in that the receiving party cannot charge a fee for production of those documents. It is pretty wide-ranging and can cover things not in their possession but that they have access too (i.e. bank statements, pay stubs, etc.). Does your state not recognize interrogatories? You could get that information this way as well.

I know this sounds weird but it is easier and quicker for me to get the docs from his employer than from him (he is going to drag it on, and if I press him by legal means... it's just not how it works among us so far. We are amicable on the surface yet I need him to do something he doesn't want to do). It is more expensive, I realize that.

Why do you feel you are entitled to his earnings post separation? Why should he give anything post spermatozoon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

ion my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

You are not going to agree on the date of separation to be after he was granted the RSUs. Think logically.

At this point let go of the discussion on his retirement. You are entitled to half that he earned when married, NOT half of what he has. Remember right now his retirement account is circling the drain. You need to wait for the market to bounce back. This buys you time since you don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer right now.

For insurance, get the child on your exes plan. You do not go on the plan. Continue your COBRA. If he’s vindictive you don’t want to be at his mercy to him dropping your coverage on a whim.

For now your #1 priority is getting a job. Focus on that. Bide you’re time on the financial settlement.

NP here and this shouldn't technically matter. Get a QDRO, split the shares and roll your shares over into an IRA. Yours and his will both bounce back when the market does.

She also needs to give him half of her retirement too.

PP here and I assumed they would net it out and I, perhaps mistakenly, assumed his retirement was larger. Presumably they are invested in relatively similar funds such as a target date retirement fund.

His probably is bigger but he is still entitled to half of hers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: no, I was not going to cash out.
It's just dragging on and on: first, stbx does not have his grant agreement and doesn't want to ask HR, so I would need to pay for the employment record subpoena (stbx is strangely ok with being subpoenaed).
then, there would be some valuation process for the shares (which I can theoretically do myself as per formula) - but it takes time.
then there is the preparation of agreement and judgement documents (about 4 hrs of lawyer time)
then negotiations start, stbx does not have a lawyer yet and I think we can avoid it, but that will be a drawn out process I think (at least 2 hrs)
I mean, we are looking at about 7 hrs x 350 here... If I were employed, I would go for it. As it is, I am not sure if I should proceed.

None of that matters since you’re not entitled to those RSUs.

You’re going to spend a heck of a lot more than 7 hours of legal time since you will not accept that. Makes the lawyer rich and you even more poor.

How are you entitled to them as he moved out and you were legally separated per your filing in court before he got the job and awarded the RSU's? It may count in child support but stop being greedy. It also may not be that much as if he got his first award so you may spend more in attorney fees than you'd get. If you make $60K, when you work, how are you affording all these attorney fees? This was not earned during marriage. This was earned after. You choose to divorce. Move on.

The bolded is not true, I won't go into details. the separation date in the petition is after he was awarded stocks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we agree that separation date was after he received the RSUs - they are marital property. It doesn’t matter when they vest/have vested.

ion my stbx can’t be reasonable except for short periods of time and I still need to tread lightly.

He thinks I have no “moral right” to his stock or pension. This is just not true by law.
But that’s not what matters now.
If I don’t go to war with him, I might be able to negotiate being on his insurance for a while, plus maybe get some money for the child once he sells stock (maybe!)
If I put my foot down and demand everything divided as per the law, I risk setting him off.
When I was employed I could afford getting legal advice and all. Now it might be cheaper and easier to just let him have “his” 401k and RSUs and ask for a little extra monthly... but remain amicable and maybe he could help me out in the future.
That’s what I am trying to decide.

You are not going to agree on the date of separation to be after he was granted the RSUs. Think logically.

At this point let go of the discussion on his retirement. You are entitled to half that he earned when married, NOT half of what he has. Remember right now his retirement account is circling the drain. You need to wait for the market to bounce back. This buys you time since you don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer right now.

For insurance, get the child on your exes plan. You do not go on the plan. Continue your COBRA. If he’s vindictive you don’t want to be at his mercy to him dropping your coverage on a whim.

For now your #1 priority is getting a job. Focus on that. Bide you’re time on the financial settlement.

NP here and this shouldn't technically matter. Get a QDRO, split the shares and roll your shares over into an IRA. Yours and his will both bounce back when the market does.

She also needs to give him half of her retirement too.

PP here and I assumed they would net it out and I, perhaps mistakenly, assumed his retirement was larger. Presumably they are invested in relatively similar funds such as a target date retirement fund.

His probably is bigger but he is still entitled to half of hers.

PP you need to let it go. Mine is MUCH smaller than his. In essence he is giving me half of his (the offset is minuscule). OP