Parents can't agree on downsizing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your post makes me so sad because I could have written it word for word. Our situations were nearly identical. Here’s what happened in a short summary. Years of talking and frustration for everyone. My parents started arguing more. We, the grown children and spouses, tried to “step up” as PP suggested and then they’d both turn on us and scream. None of us were local and we would take off of work and go for long periods of time to try and help with decluttering, cleaning, or try to put things in place to help with day to day. Our father increasingly wanted to sell and our mother dug her heels in worse. The fighting increased and the house became so cluttered it was difficult to stay there with the grandkids when we visited.

Everything changed overnight with a series of very serious medical conditions. Surgeries and ongoing treatments started. The stairs became too much and she couldn’t get up the stairs. Overnight she agreed to sell and they did. Without telling us, they put the house on the market and hired a service to simply get rid of everything. They now live in a manageable apartment.

This is a good lesson... stay out of it... and likely they’ll be able to deal with it when the time comes. Or you know, they won’t. But there are always options... for example, there are companies that will buy houses and dispose of the “junk.” Obviously, you get pennies on the dollar compared to what you’d get fixing up and decluttering yourself. On the other hand, some people can’t take weeks/months of leave from work and their own children to accomplish this. It’s a trade off for sure. But there are always options.

That junk could have the keys to identity theft. Ask me how I know.

Help mom get on board and get them dealing with their stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You must take sides here and I am usually a big advocate of staying out of things. MOM needs to get over it and move. It is a living hell when they age in place with a bunch of crap.It can take siblings who like eachother and turn them into mortal enemies. You can end up rensenting your parents during a time you want to be focused on loving them and helping them. When the shit hits the fan and they end up in the hospital and you are scrambling for residential care and dealing with your own kids and spouse the LAST thing you want to do is sort through their junk heap and deal or hire a company. If they are like my parents there are taxes going back decades and you need to shred that shit before someone from a company you hire steels the ss#. Mom needs to get with the program. Somehow gently or firmly get her there.

They don't need to move. They need help inside the house and to make it senior friendly. The issue is OP wants to dictate things and not help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stay out of it! Don’t let them unload on you. That’s totally inappropriate. Tell them youu will help execute their decision, once they make it. Maybe suggest a couple sessions with a counselor just to help them have the conversation (it’s about far more than living space) but otherwise, keep repeating that it’s up to them.

You either come from a family with unusually evolved elderly parents, or you have never been through this. I have with my own parents and with many friends and in every case suggesting a counselor is like telling them to expose themselves to the Coronavirus from Wuhan! Seriously, my mother was downright mentally ill from dealing with dad and you could not get her mental health help, but that is another story.

Normally you stay out of stuff, but there is a good chance something is up with mom. The early stages of things like dementia can really be a whole host of things from increased rigidity to hoarding to increased anxiety. Too often it's not "just aging." Dad is wise here and even if mom is just locked in by her own emotional stuff, she is not being rational. If they both had a full deck of cards, you star out of it, but here you are trying to stop a potential train wreck. Things go bad in a blind of an eye. You are one bad fall away from having to deal with their mess for them. It is well worth the effort to help dad out here even if it's just the peace of mind that you tried everything to avoid the nightmare that is dealing with your parents clutter while they have severe medical needs and potentially your worklife explodes and your own family needs you more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You must take sides here and I am usually a big advocate of staying out of things. MOM needs to get over it and move. It is a living hell when they age in place with a bunch of crap.It can take siblings who like eachother and turn them into mortal enemies. You can end up rensenting your parents during a time you want to be focused on loving them and helping them. When the shit hits the fan and they end up in the hospital and you are scrambling for residential care and dealing with your own kids and spouse the LAST thing you want to do is sort through their junk heap and deal or hire a company. If they are like my parents there are taxes going back decades and you need to shred that shit before someone from a company you hire steels the ss#. Mom needs to get with the program. Somehow gently or firmly get her there.

I respectfully disagree with this advice. Well, I agree that everything poster says about how hard it can be on the kids to have to do the work is true, but I don't think it trumps a person's desire to stay home. I've seen people pretty much be forced to move and live unhappily for their last years. I say this as someone whose mom was borderline hoarder. I just couldn't see forcing her to move out before she felt ready. You don't have to go and shred everything or sell it - if someone steals their ss#, so be it. If they are staying in their home without help from you, I say let them do it. It's not really your say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must take sides here and I am usually a big advocate of staying out of things. MOM needs to get over it and move. It is a living hell when they age in place with a bunch of crap.It can take siblings who like eachother and turn them into mortal enemies. You can end up rensenting your parents during a time you want to be focused on loving them and helping them. When the shit hits the fan and they end up in the hospital and you are scrambling for residential care and dealing with your own kids and spouse the LAST thing you want to do is sort through their junk heap and deal or hire a company. If they are like my parents there are taxes going back decades and you need to shred that shit before someone from a company you hire steels the ss#. Mom needs to get with the program. Somehow gently or firmly get her there.

They don't need to move. They need help inside the house and to make it senior friendly. The issue is OP wants to dictate things and not help.

Team OP! OP is being realistic. You sound naive. My parents spend endless thousands of dollars to senior proof and in the blind of an eye, a medical issue makes it no longer senior proof enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stay out of it! Don’t let them unload on you. That’s totally inappropriate. Tell them youu will help execute their decision, once they make it. Maybe suggest a couple sessions with a counselor just to help them have the conversation (it’s about far more than living space) but otherwise, keep repeating that it’s up to them.

You either come from a family with unusually evolved elderly parents, or you have never been through this. I have with my own parents and with many friends and in every case suggesting a counselor is like telling them to expose themselves to the Coronavirus from Wuhan! Seriously, my mother was downright mentally ill from dealing with dad and you could not get her mental health help, but that is another story.

Normally you stay out of stuff, but there is a good chance something is up with mom. The early stages of things like dementia can really be a whole host of things from increased rigidity to hoarding to increased anxiety. Too often it's not "just aging." Dad is wise here and even if mom is just locked in by her own emotional stuff, she is not being rational. If they both had a full deck of cards, you star out of it, but here you are trying to stop a potential train wreck. Things go bad in a blind of an eye. You are one bad fall away from having to deal with their mess for them. It is well worth the effort to help dad out here even if it's just the peace of mind that you tried everything to avoid the nightmare that is dealing with your parents clutter while they have severe medical needs and potentially your worklife explodes and your own family needs you more.

Mom doesn't need to move to make OP's life easier. And it's not dementia to not want to move out of your home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must take sides here and I am usually a big advocate of staying out of things. MOM needs to get over it and move. It is a living hell when they age in place with a bunch of crap.It can take siblings who like eachother and turn them into mortal enemies. You can end up rensenting your parents during a time you want to be focused on loving them and helping them. When the shit hits the fan and they end up in the hospital and you are scrambling for residential care and dealing with your own kids and spouse the LAST thing you want to do is sort through their junk heap and deal or hire a company. If they are like my parents there are taxes going back decades and you need to shred that shit before someone from a company you hire steels the ss#. Mom needs to get with the program. Somehow gently or firmly get her there.

They don't need to move. They need help inside the house and to make it senior friendly. The issue is OP wants to dictate things and not help.

Team OP! OP is being realistic. You sound naive. My parents spend endless thousands of dollars to senior proof and in the blind of an eye, a medical issue makes it no longer senior proof enough.

So what? It's their call. It's their money. It's their risk to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your post makes me so sad because I could have written it word for word. Our situations were nearly identical. Here’s what happened in a short summary. Years of talking and frustration for everyone. My parents started arguing more. We, the grown children and spouses, tried to “step up” as PP suggested and then they’d both turn on us and scream. None of us were local and we would take off of work and go for long periods of time to try and help with decluttering, cleaning, or try to put things in place to help with day to day. Our father increasingly wanted to sell and our mother dug her heels in worse. The fighting increased and the house became so cluttered it was difficult to stay there with the grandkids when we visited.

Everything changed overnight with a series of very serious medical conditions. Surgeries and ongoing treatments started. The stairs became too much and she couldn’t get up the stairs. Overnight she agreed to sell and they did. Without telling us, they put the house on the market and hired a service to simply get rid of everything. They now live in a manageable apartment.

I think this is exactly probably the most realistic scenario. That, or one dies while they are still living there, and the other than moves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stay out of it! Don’t let them unload on you. That’s totally inappropriate. Tell them youu will help execute their decision, once they make it. Maybe suggest a couple sessions with a counselor just to help them have the conversation (it’s about far more than living space) but otherwise, keep repeating that it’s up to them.

You either come from a family with unusually evolved elderly parents, or you have never been through this. I have with my own parents and with many friends and in every case suggesting a counselor is like telling them to expose themselves to the Coronavirus from Wuhan! Seriously, my mother was downright mentally ill from dealing with dad and you could not get her mental health help, but that is another story.

Normally you stay out of stuff, but there is a good chance something is up with mom. The early stages of things like dementia can really be a whole host of things from increased rigidity to hoarding to increased anxiety. Too often it's not "just aging." Dad is wise here and even if mom is just locked in by her own emotional stuff, she is not being rational. If they both had a full deck of cards, you star out of it, but here you are trying to stop a potential train wreck. Things go bad in a blind of an eye. You are one bad fall away from having to deal with their mess for them. It is well worth the effort to help dad out here even if it's just the peace of mind that you tried everything to avoid the nightmare that is dealing with your parents clutter while they have severe medical needs and potentially your worklife explodes and your own family needs you more.

Mom doesn't need to move to make OP's life easier. And it's not dementia to not want to move out of your home.

OK Bo0mer!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must take sides here and I am usually a big advocate of staying out of things. MOM needs to get over it and move. It is a living hell when they age in place with a bunch of crap.It can take siblings who like eachother and turn them into mortal enemies. You can end up rensenting your parents during a time you want to be focused on loving them and helping them. When the shit hits the fan and they end up in the hospital and you are scrambling for residential care and dealing with your own kids and spouse the LAST thing you want to do is sort through their junk heap and deal or hire a company. If they are like my parents there are taxes going back decades and you need to shred that shit before someone from a company you hire steels the ss#. Mom needs to get with the program. Somehow gently or firmly get her there.

They don't need to move. They need help inside the house and to make it senior friendly. The issue is OP wants to dictate things and not help.

Team OP! OP is being realistic. You sound naive. My parents spend endless thousands of dollars to senior proof and in the blind of an eye, a medical issue makes it no longer senior proof enough.

So what? It's their call. It's their money. It's their risk to take.

If they expect their adult children with jobs and families of their own to drop everything and move them out, find the right care and provide support the second it all goes to shit then the adult children should have input. if they expect to miraculously be self-reliant and don't expect help from anyone then have at it. It is selfish and entitled to expect everyone to clean up your 6,000square foot mess, while getting you top notch care and providing support and dealing with everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stay out of it! Don’t let them unload on you. That’s totally inappropriate. Tell them youu will help execute their decision, once they make it. Maybe suggest a couple sessions with a counselor just to help them have the conversation (it’s about far more than living space) but otherwise, keep repeating that it’s up to them.

You either come from a family with unusually evolved elderly parents, or you have never been through this. I have with my own parents and with many friends and in every case suggesting a counselor is like telling them to expose themselves to the Coronavirus from Wuhan! Seriously, my mother was downright mentally ill from dealing with dad and you could not get her mental health help, but that is another story.

Normally you stay out of stuff, but there is a good chance something is up with mom. The early stages of things like dementia can really be a whole host of things from increased rigidity to hoarding to increased anxiety. Too often it's not "just aging." Dad is wise here and even if mom is just locked in by her own emotional stuff, she is not being rational. If they both had a full deck of cards, you star out of it, but here you are trying to stop a potential train wreck. Things go bad in a blind of an eye. You are one bad fall away from having to deal with their mess for them. It is well worth the effort to help dad out here even if it's just the peace of mind that you tried everything to avoid the nightmare that is dealing with your parents clutter while they have severe medical needs and potentially your worklife explodes and your own family needs you more.

Mom doesn't need to move to make OP's life easier. And it's not dementia to not want to move out of your home.

OK Bo0mer!

I'm actually GenX. I don't have a problem with Millenials and I think the generational wars are pretty silly. However, it is stereotypically entitled to think that people in their mid 70's (with maybe 20 years left to go!) should structure their lives in ways they don't want in order to make their kids' lives easier.

And yes, if they don't take their kids' opinions into account, then they should understand that very well may lead to less help later. Again, it's their choice.

[Anonymous]

Help them stay in their house. They will be happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think if you ALL decide that moving your parents is a decision that needs to be implemented now, your mother will not be able to fight it.

So do that.

Wow. That is a truly horrible thing to do. OP’s mom seems lucid and just values her correct residence. Forcing her out is basically treating her like a child. Op and her siblings should meet with her parents and help facilitate the conversation. Maybe there is a middle ground. They coukd hire a service to help clean out some of the clutter and/or reconfigure the house to live in a portion of it so dad does not need to use so many stairs. Or maybe mom is more afraid no one will visit if they move and the kids could ease her concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stay out of it! Don’t let them unload on you. That’s totally inappropriate. Tell them youu will help execute their decision, once they make it. Maybe suggest a couple sessions with a counselor just to help them have the conversation (it’s about far more than living space) but otherwise, keep repeating that it’s up to them.

You either come from a family with unusually evolved elderly parents, or you have never been through this. I have with my own parents and with many friends and in every case suggesting a counselor is like telling them to expose themselves to the Coronavirus from Wuhan! Seriously, my mother was downright mentally ill from dealing with dad and you could not get her mental health help, but that is another story.

Normally you stay out of stuff, but there is a good chance something is up with mom. The early stages of things like dementia can really be a whole host of things from increased rigidity to hoarding to increased anxiety. Too often it's not "just aging." Dad is wise here and even if mom is just locked in by her own emotional stuff, she is not being rational. If they both had a full deck of cards, you star out of it, but here you are trying to stop a potential train wreck. Things go bad in a blind of an eye. You are one bad fall away from having to deal with their mess for them. It is well worth the effort to help dad out here even if it's just the peace of mind that you tried everything to avoid the nightmare that is dealing with your parents clutter while they have severe medical needs and potentially your worklife explodes and your own family needs you more.

Mom doesn't need to move to make OP's life easier. And it's not dementia to not want to move out of your home.

OK Bo0mer!

I'm actually GenX. I don't have a problem with Millenials and I think the generational wars are pretty silly. However, it is stereotypically entitled to think that people in their mid 70's (with maybe 20 years left to go!) should structure their lives in ways they don't want in order to make their kids' lives easier.

And yes, if they don't take their kids' opinions into account, then they should understand that very well may lead to less help later. Again, it's their choice.

This is all very easy to say until your adult child is the situation where due to your choices she has to drop everything to save you in an emergency and deal with your house and deal with job stress and family stuff. My friend had a heart attack in this situation. Another friend got downsized after taking off so much time and did not want to go through a legal battle over why she was let go after family leave or whatever it was. For me, it did me in. It's not easy to decide when the time comes to let your parent literally kill themselves due to their poor decisions. Not to mention the parent who says she will find a way to deal, calls you sobbing and uses every bit of ammunition they have to get you to drop everything.

Honestly, to those who say "let it go" I actually don't hope you experience what I did, because I don't wish that on anyone. I don't want anyone to be in a position that led to my friend's heart attack. On the other hand, I do hope you can better understand just through reading other people's accounts. If not, I do hope you don't have to learn the hard way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Help them stay in their house. They will be happier.

This is BS. DH and I were very reluctant to move, but could see friends in distress b/c of need to move on short notice.

Once we moved - we couldn't be happier. So much easier.

--Not a boomer, actually a pre-boomer.