Divorce question - what is fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What he's proposing is not fair - it's meant to financially punish you for wanting to divorce. Get a lawyer and do everything by the book.

How is he screwing her? She wants more than 50%. They split everything equally including selling or buying out the other person with the house and done. He gets 50% time share when he's in the US or where ever he lives and pays child support if he makes more and when he's not in the country its adjusted for the time share change with Mom having more. She makes it sound like she wants child support and alimony despite she is working so she doesn't need alimony and more than 1/2 the assets especially the house.

OP here. Where did I say I want more than 50%?
It might make sense for us to divide in half overall, but not necessarily from each pot. For example, since he is leaving in 18 months for a a three year post, I will be doing most of taking care of the kids over the next few years no matter what. Therefore, it may make more sense (to me) to divide things in such a way that would allow me to purchase a slightly larger more comfortable home for the kids. Maybe that would mean letting him keep more of TSP. That’s just an example I’m throwing out there.

I have been able to return to work and received promotions in the last couple of years, now reached the point where I can support myself financially (I am very low maintenance, but living in DMV so housing costs are high no matter what) and likely won’t get significant, if any, spousal support. Kids are 9 and 12. On my own, without child support, I can afford a 3 bedroom apartment in a so-so school zone and live extremely frugally and kids will be latchkey and won’t be able to afford sports or activities. I’ve been poor before, including during parts of my marriage, and I know it will suck. DH admonishes me that I won’t be able to provide for them well and suggested that I leave, since he claims to be able to afford our current mortgage (3500) and costs on his own.

Wait, is he suggesting you leave and the kids stay with him? If so, absolutely do not do that, and get military divorce lawyer immediately. You need to act fast to protect yourself and your kids.

Its not clear if he's military or just working overseas. Either is a possibility. But, if he is military, he divorces he will lose the family allowance and she will lose the health insurance which is something to consider financially.

Give him the house. He can buy her out of her half and she can take that money to pay rent or buy a cheaper house. They must be living in a million dollar house with that mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What he's proposing is not fair - it's meant to financially punish you for wanting to divorce. Get a lawyer and do everything by the book.

How is he screwing her? She wants more than 50%. They split everything equally including selling or buying out the other person with the house and done. He gets 50% time share when he's in the US or where ever he lives and pays child support if he makes more and when he's not in the country its adjusted for the time share change with Mom having more. She makes it sound like she wants child support and alimony despite she is working so she doesn't need alimony and more than 1/2 the assets especially the house.

OP here. Where did I say I want more than 50%?
It might make sense for us to divide in half overall, but not necessarily from each pot. For example, since he is leaving in 18 months for a a three year post, I will be doing most of taking care of the kids over the next few years no matter what. Therefore, it may make more sense (to me) to divide things in such a way that would allow me to purchase a slightly larger more comfortable home for the kids. Maybe that would mean letting him keep more of TSP. That’s just an example I’m throwing out there.

I have been able to return to work and received promotions in the last couple of years, now reached the point where I can support myself financially (I am very low maintenance, but living in DMV so housing costs are high no matter what) and likely won’t get significant, if any, spousal support. Kids are 9 and 12. On my own, without child support, I can afford a 3 bedroom apartment in a so-so school zone and live extremely frugally and kids will be latchkey and won’t be able to afford sports or activities. I’ve been poor before, including during parts of my marriage, and I know it will suck. DH admonishes me that I won’t be able to provide for them well and suggested that I leave, since he claims to be able to afford our current mortgage (3500) and costs on his own.

You are asking to get more if you are saying you want the house or more money to buy the current house. You have your income and child support. You can move to a different area and a small house and have a $2K a month mortgage like some of us do. You are not extremely frugal living in a $3500 a month house and an aupair. You can agree to leave the house but he needs to buy you out of your half of the house. You can pay sports through child support and your income OR if you do 50/50 he can do then pay 50/50 sports as he has 50/50 custody. The 12 year old can watch the 9 year old after school. You just need child care in the summer.

Or, you continue to live together married and do your own thing.

I think you're misreading the OP. Just for easy numbers say the house was worth $100K and his TSP was worth $100K and no other assets. She's saying rather than divide every asset 50/50 give her the house and he can keep his TSP. For ease of the example assume the TSP is Roth so the dollars are all post-tax dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What he's proposing is not fair - it's meant to financially punish you for wanting to divorce. Get a lawyer and do everything by the book.

How is he screwing her? She wants more than 50%. They split everything equally including selling or buying out the other person with the house and done. He gets 50% time share when he's in the US or where ever he lives and pays child support if he makes more and when he's not in the country its adjusted for the time share change with Mom having more. She makes it sound like she wants child support and alimony despite she is working so she doesn't need alimony and more than 1/2 the assets especially the house.

OP here. Where did I say I want more than 50%?
It might make sense for us to divide in half overall, but not necessarily from each pot. For example, since he is leaving in 18 months for a a three year post, I will be doing most of taking care of the kids over the next few years no matter what. Therefore, it may make more sense (to me) to divide things in such a way that would allow me to purchase a slightly larger more comfortable home for the kids. Maybe that would mean letting him keep more of TSP. That’s just an example I’m throwing out there.

I have been able to return to work and received promotions in the last couple of years, now reached the point where I can support myself financially (I am very low maintenance, but living in DMV so housing costs are high no matter what) and likely won’t get significant, if any, spousal support. Kids are 9 and 12. On my own, without child support, I can afford a 3 bedroom apartment in a so-so school zone and live extremely frugally and kids will be latchkey and won’t be able to afford sports or activities. I’ve been poor before, including during parts of my marriage, and I know it will suck. DH admonishes me that I won’t be able to provide for them well and suggested that I leave, since he claims to be able to afford our current mortgage (3500) and costs on his own.

You do not need a larger home. $3500 is a big ass mortgage, IMO.

Not a larger home than the $3500 mortgage. Just larger than what I can afford on my salary alone without spousal or child support.

You make it sound like you are making $70K a year. If you can afford a $3500 mortgage, you are making $150-300K a year and soI am not seeing where you cannot afford things on your own without child support. You have no concept of frugal. You can easily live in a house for $2000-2500K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What he's proposing is not fair - it's meant to financially punish you for wanting to divorce. Get a lawyer and do everything by the book.

How is he screwing her? She wants more than 50%. They split everything equally including selling or buying out the other person with the house and done. He gets 50% time share when he's in the US or where ever he lives and pays child support if he makes more and when he's not in the country its adjusted for the time share change with Mom having more. She makes it sound like she wants child support and alimony despite she is working so she doesn't need alimony and more than 1/2 the assets especially the house.

OP here. Where did I say I want more than 50%?
It might make sense for us to divide in half overall, but not necessarily from each pot. For example, since he is leaving in 18 months for a a three year post, I will be doing most of taking care of the kids over the next few years no matter what. Therefore, it may make more sense (to me) to divide things in such a way that would allow me to purchase a slightly larger more comfortable home for the kids. Maybe that would mean letting him keep more of TSP. That’s just an example I’m throwing out there.

I have been able to return to work and received promotions in the last couple of years, now reached the point where I can support myself financially (I am very low maintenance, but living in DMV so housing costs are high no matter what) and likely won’t get significant, if any, spousal support. Kids are 9 and 12. On my own, without child support, I can afford a 3 bedroom apartment in a so-so school zone and live extremely frugally and kids will be latchkey and won’t be able to afford sports or activities. I’ve been poor before, including during parts of my marriage, and I know it will suck. DH admonishes me that I won’t be able to provide for them well and suggested that I leave, since he claims to be able to afford our current mortgage (3500) and costs on his own.

You are asking to get more if you are saying you want the house or more money to buy the current house. You have your income and child support. You can move to a different area and a small house and have a $2K a month mortgage like some of us do. You are not extremely frugal living in a $3500 a month house and an aupair. You can agree to leave the house but he needs to buy you out of your half of the house. You can pay sports through child support and your income OR if you do 50/50 he can do then pay 50/50 sports as he has 50/50 custody. The 12 year old can watch the 9 year old after school. You just need child care in the summer.

Or, you continue to live together married and do your own thing.

I think you're misreading the OP. Just for easy numbers say the house was worth $100K and his TSP was worth $100K and no other assets. She's saying rather than divide every asset 50/50 give her the house and he can keep his TSP. For ease of the example assume the TSP is Roth so the dollars are all post-tax dollars.

If the mortgage is $3500, that has to be an $800-1 million dollar house. They are probably living way over their means if they had to do a TSP loan. So, she can give him the house, he keeps his retirement and its a clean deal. I don't get where all their money is going as both sound higher income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What he's proposing is not fair - it's meant to financially punish you for wanting to divorce. Get a lawyer and do everything by the book.

How is he screwing her? She wants more than 50%. They split everything equally including selling or buying out the other person with the house and done. He gets 50% time share when he's in the US or where ever he lives and pays child support if he makes more and when he's not in the country its adjusted for the time share change with Mom having more. She makes it sound like she wants child support and alimony despite she is working so she doesn't need alimony and more than 1/2 the assets especially the house.

OP here. Where did I say I want more than 50%?
It might make sense for us to divide in half overall, but not necessarily from each pot. For example, since he is leaving in 18 months for a a three year post, I will be doing most of taking care of the kids over the next few years no matter what. Therefore, it may make more sense (to me) to divide things in such a way that would allow me to purchase a slightly larger more comfortable home for the kids. Maybe that would mean letting him keep more of TSP. That’s just an example I’m throwing out there.

I have been able to return to work and received promotions in the last couple of years, now reached the point where I can support myself financially (I am very low maintenance, but living in DMV so housing costs are high no matter what) and likely won’t get significant, if any, spousal support. Kids are 9 and 12. On my own, without child support, I can afford a 3 bedroom apartment in a so-so school zone and live extremely frugally and kids will be latchkey and won’t be able to afford sports or activities. I’ve been poor before, including during parts of my marriage, and I know it will suck. DH admonishes me that I won’t be able to provide for them well and suggested that I leave, since he claims to be able to afford our current mortgage (3500) and costs on his own.

You are asking to get more if you are saying you want the house or more money to buy the current house. You have your income and child support. You can move to a different area and a small house and have a $2K a month mortgage like some of us do. You are not extremely frugal living in a $3500 a month house and an aupair. You can agree to leave the house but he needs to buy you out of your half of the house. You can pay sports through child support and your income OR if you do 50/50 he can do then pay 50/50 sports as he has 50/50 custody. The 12 year old can watch the 9 year old after school. You just need child care in the summer.

Or, you continue to live together married and do your own thing.

I think you're misreading the OP. Just for easy numbers say the house was worth $100K and his TSP was worth $100K and no other assets. She's saying rather than divide every asset 50/50 give her the house and he can keep his TSP. For ease of the example assume the TSP is Roth so the dollars are all post-tax dollars.

If the mortgage is $3500, that has to be an $800-1 million dollar house. They are probably living way over their means if they had to do a TSP loan. So, she can give him the house, he keeps his retirement and its a clean deal. I don't get where all their money is going as both sound higher income.

I was responding to the posters that suggest she is asking for more than 50% of the assets. She's just suggesting they be divided up 50% of the total rather than each bucket.

Prob. right that she should get a house she can afford on her income without taking into account CS and alimony. CS will probably end in 9 years, better to pick a place she can stay long-term given the high transaction costs of moving.

[Anonymous]

The best advice on here is get a lawyer. Or at least look into divorce mediation. You need a professional involved.

My only other comment: if he wants 50% custody he probably will (and should!) get it. He's their dad after all. He won't bitch and moan when you're not there to hear it.

[Anonymous]

JFC people. Reading comprehension! 3500 is our current mortgage, which we are able to afford because DH makes a lot more money than I do and we are frugal in other areas. It is partly high because we are paying MI, which we could easily refinance to get rid of now, but isn’t worth it given we are likely going to be selling the house pretty soon.

[Anonymous]

Agree that OP is talking about trading off cash/real estate assets for retirement. However, this is how many women mess themselves up. Retirement $$ isn’t necessarily a one for one exchange, since it’s not immediately accessible. Too many women focus on keeping their current living standard and not long term financial security, and find out they’re screwed when child support ends and they have little or no retirement savings.

When I divorced my higher earning ex, I took all of the $$ in retirement funds (and got a higher amount than I would have in cash) and downsized from a big house to a small apartment. Now, years later, my living standard is back where it was and my retirement fund is also where it needs to be (and then some).

It’s harder with kids, but the father can keep the residence in the good school district.

[Anonymous]

Why don’t you let him buy you out of the house if he can afford it and you move to a small apt you can afford? 100% agree that women tend to put way too much stock into maintaining the housing they can’t afford on their own and giving up more tangible benefits over an emotional attachment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What he's proposing is not fair - it's meant to financially punish you for wanting to divorce. Get a lawyer and do everything by the book.

How is he screwing her? She wants more than 50%. They split everything equally including selling or buying out the other person with the house and done. He gets 50% time share when he's in the US or where ever he lives and pays child support if he makes more and when he's not in the country its adjusted for the time share change with Mom having more. She makes it sound like she wants child support and alimony despite she is working so she doesn't need alimony and more than 1/2 the assets especially the house.

OP here. Where did I say I want more than 50%?
It might make sense for us to divide in half overall, but not necessarily from each pot. For example, since he is leaving in 18 months for a a three year post, I will be doing most of taking care of the kids over the next few years no matter what. Therefore, it may make more sense (to me) to divide things in such a way that would allow me to purchase a slightly larger more comfortable home for the kids. Maybe that would mean letting him keep more of TSP. That’s just an example I’m throwing out there.

I have been able to return to work and received promotions in the last couple of years, now reached the point where I can support myself financially (I am very low maintenance, but living in DMV so housing costs are high no matter what) and likely won’t get significant, if any, spousal support. Kids are 9 and 12. On my own, without child support, I can afford a 3 bedroom apartment in a so-so school zone and live extremely frugally and kids will be latchkey and won’t be able to afford sports or activities. I’ve been poor before, including during parts of my marriage, and I know it will suck. DH admonishes me that I won’t be able to provide for them well and suggested that I leave, since he claims to be able to afford our current mortgage (3500) and costs on his own.

You are asking to get more if you are saying you want the house or more money to buy the current house. You have your income and child support. You can move to a different area and a small house and have a $2K a month mortgage like some of us do. You are not extremely frugal living in a $3500 a month house and an aupair. You can agree to leave the house but he needs to buy you out of your half of the house. You can pay sports through child support and your income OR if you do 50/50 he can do then pay 50/50 sports as he has 50/50 custody. The 12 year old can watch the 9 year old after school. You just need child care in the summer.

Or, you continue to live together married and do your own thing.

I think you're misreading the OP. Just for easy numbers say the house was worth $100K and his TSP was worth $100K and no other assets. She's saying rather than divide every asset 50/50 give her the house and he can keep his TSP. For ease of the example assume the TSP is Roth so the dollars are all post-tax dollars.

If the mortgage is $3500, that has to be an $800-1 million dollar house. They are probably living way over their means if they had to do a TSP loan. So, she can give him the house, he keeps his retirement and its a clean deal. I don't get where all their money is going as both sound higher income.

I was responding to the posters that suggest she is asking for more than 50% of the assets. She's just suggesting they be divided up 50% of the total rather than each bucket.

Prob. right that she should get a house she can afford on her income without taking into account CS and alimony. CS will probably end in 9 years, better to pick a place she can stay long-term given the high transaction costs of moving.

She's working, she isn't going to get alimony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you let him buy you out of the house if he can afford it and you move to a small apt you can afford? 100% agree that women tend to put way too much stock into maintaining the housing they can’t afford on their own and giving up more tangible benefits over an emotional attachment.

+1, let go of the house as long as he will buy you out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree that OP is talking about trading off cash/real estate assets for retirement. However, this is how many women mess themselves up. Retirement $$ isn’t necessarily a one for one exchange, since it’s not immediately accessible. Too many women focus on keeping their current living standard and not long term financial security, and find out they’re screwed when child support ends and they have little or no retirement savings.

When I divorced my higher earning ex, I took all of the $$ in retirement funds (and got a higher amount than I would have in cash) and downsized from a big house to a small apartment. Now, years later, my living standard is back where it was and my retirement fund is also where it needs to be (and then some).

It’s harder with kids, but the father can keep the residence in the good school district.

That's what I would do too but she does't sound like she wants to change her standard of living. I also don't understand where all the money went given they are older - at least mid-30's. I would rather take the retirement money and protect my future than have the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't just "back date" the separation.

You will be required to swear under oath that you have lived "separate and apart" for 12 mos. (that means no sex).

If you are making plans to lie about that, you are comtemplating perjury.

You CAN live separate and apart in the same house if you cannot afford separate dwellings and you do your own cooking and chores.... basically one person lives in the basement and you have separate lives.

You are right to be concerned about the parenting and the 50/50 custody. So many times the dad wants 50/50 so he can avoid paying child support. From what you have described, he hasn't been parenting much and doesn't have the desire to. Mostly has the desire not to pay child support. Those are two different things. I'd be very careful about agreeing to 50/50 custody. You didn't say how old your kids are, but younger kids need a more patient parents -- not saying he would abuse them -- but it happens when people who aren't equipped to parent kids full time don't understand the correct expectations for younger kids. And military folks are more likely to have "do it b/c I say so" parenting skills. It can be a recipe for disaster. Better to have shorter visits and see how he manages.

A lot of women only want the absolute in visitation so they get more child support. It goes both ways. Most military folks don't have that way as a parenting skill. We are military. Moms can abuse kids just a much as Dad's. You sound like you are trying to screw over Dad.

I'm military too. I've seen enough abuse cases to know that there can be trouble when a parent who doesn't usually have much parenting responsibilities thinks they can "make" a younger child do X when told. OP was the one who mentioned her concerns about her husband's abilities. The military mindset "yes sir!, no sir!" is not compatible with young kids. It's something to be alert to when thinking about custody.... depending on the ages of the kids.

[Anonymous]

What state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you let him buy you out of the house if he can afford it and you move to a small apt you can afford? 100% agree that women tend to put way too much stock into maintaining the housing they can’t afford on their own and giving up more tangible benefits over an emotional attachment.

Because I believe the kids should be with me primarily. DH has no patience for them and is leaving again anyway in 18 months.