Would you put your white kid in KIPP or Center City?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady or man- children at that age don’t see in color, unless that is something you are teaching your 3yr old..and all black children in public schools are not low-income. Put your energy into what the schools have to offer your child, not what color the kids are. Your kid would be just fine, as for you, I don’t know.

This is categorically, scientifically, untrue.

NP: Nope, it's very true.

Btw, when you invoke science you should always be prepared to offer relevant references in top-quality journals. Please go ahead.

NP. No, the onus is on the person who first made the claim to back it up with data.

Nonetheless, I'll go ahead--the fact that children in fact do "see in color" at an early age is pretty well-established, by my read (I have a Ph.D., but in a related area). For example, I remember that the following research was cited in the book Nurture Shock. It basically says that not only can young infants differentiate between races, but they seem to prefer the faces of adults that belong to their own race.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady or man- children at that age don’t see in color, unless that is something you are teaching your 3yr old..and all black children in public schools are not low-income. Put your energy into what the schools have to offer your child, not what color the kids are. Your kid would be just fine, as for you, I don’t know.

This is categorically, scientifically, untrue.

NP: Nope, it's very true.

Btw, when you invoke science you should always be prepared to offer relevant references in top-quality journals. Please go ahead.

NP. No, the onus is on the person who first made the claim to back it up with data.

Nonetheless, I'll go ahead--the fact that children in fact do "see in color" at an early age is pretty well-established, by my read (I have a Ph.D., but in a related area). For example, I remember that the following research was cited in the book Nurture Shock. It basically says that not only can young infants differentiate between races, but they seem to prefer the faces of adults that belong to their own race.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

The upside is that apparently this preference for their own race is learned, not innate. By extension, it seems that if you would want your white kid to not automatically have a preference for other white kids, you'd send them to a school that is diverse from a young age. I don't have time to look that up right now, but that would be an interesting study, if it hasn't already been done (e.g., measuring ingroup racial preference in young white kids who attend predominantly same-race vs. racially diverse day cares/schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady or man- children at that age don’t see in color, unless that is something you are teaching your 3yr old..and all black children in public schools are not low-income. Put your energy into what the schools have to offer your child, not what color the kids are. Your kid would be just fine, as for you, I don’t know.

This is categorically, scientifically, untrue.

NP: Nope, it's very true.

Btw, when you invoke science you should always be prepared to offer relevant references in top-quality journals. Please go ahead.

NP. No, the onus is on the person who first made the claim to back it up with data.

Nonetheless, I'll go ahead--the fact that children in fact do "see in color" at an early age is pretty well-established, by my read (I have a Ph.D., but in a related area). For example, I remember that the following research was cited in the book Nurture Shock. It basically says that not only can young infants differentiate between races, but they seem to prefer the faces of adults that belong to their own race.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

PP again. The upside is that apparently this preference for their own race is learned, not innate. By extension, it seems that if you would want your white kid to not automatically have a preference for other white kids, you'd send them to a school that is diverse from a young age. I don't have time to look that up right now, but that would be an interesting study, if it hasn't already been done (e.g., measuring ingroup racial preference in young white kids who attend predominantly same-race vs. racially diverse day cares/schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady or man- children at that age don’t see in color, unless that is something you are teaching your 3yr old..and all black children in public schools are not low-income. Put your energy into what the schools have to offer your child, not what color the kids are. Your kid would be just fine, as for you, I don’t know.

This is categorically, scientifically, untrue.

NP: Nope, it's very true.

Btw, when you invoke science you should always be prepared to offer relevant references in top-quality journals. Please go ahead.

NP. No, the onus is on the person who first made the claim to back it up with data.

Nonetheless, I'll go ahead--the fact that children in fact do "see in color" at an early age is pretty well-established, by my read (I have a Ph.D., but in a related area). For example, I remember that the following research was cited in the book Nurture Shock. It basically says that not only can young infants differentiate between races, but they seem to prefer the faces of adults that belong to their own race.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

PP again. The upside is that apparently this preference for their own race is learned, not innate. By extension, it seems that if you would want your white kid to not automatically have a preference for other white kids, you'd send them to a school that is diverse from a young age. I don't have time to look that up right now, but that would be an interesting study, if it hasn't already been done (e.g., measuring ingroup racial preference in young white kids who attend predominantly same-race vs. racially diverse day cares/schools).

This is too funny to be true.

You use a paper that actually supports the first PP (children at that age don't see color unless you teach them) while you said he was scientifically wrong.

And then you use the same paper to claim "by extension" something else for which you provide no direct evidence.

Bye PhD genius

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both Kipp and Center City use the Appletree model for pk3 and prek4. You’ll be fine at either one for those grades. K and up, I’d choose Kipp over CC.

It’s been a while since my child was in pk, so I could be wrong, but at the time KIPP did not use the apple tree model. The pk was very play based and while they tracked kids progress the emphasis in all grades so far has been “joyful learning”. I’m the pp with a white child in upper elementary at KIPP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady or man- children at that age don’t see in color, unless that is something you are teaching your 3yr old..and all black children in public schools are not low-income. Put your energy into what the schools have to offer your child, not what color the kids are. Your kid would be just fine, as for you, I don’t know.

This is categorically, scientifically, untrue.

NP: Nope, it's very true.

Btw, when you invoke science you should always be prepared to offer relevant references in top-quality journals. Please go ahead.

NP. No, the onus is on the person who first made the claim to back it up with data.

Nonetheless, I'll go ahead--the fact that children in fact do "see in color" at an early age is pretty well-established, by my read (I have a Ph.D., but in a related area). For example, I remember that the following research was cited in the book Nurture Shock. It basically says that not only can young infants differentiate between races, but they seem to prefer the faces of adults that belong to their own race.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

PP again. The upside is that apparently this preference for their own race is learned, not innate. By extension, it seems that if you would want your white kid to not automatically have a preference for other white kids, you'd send them to a school that is diverse from a young age. I don't have time to look that up right now, but that would be an interesting study, if it hasn't already been done (e.g., measuring ingroup racial preference in young white kids who attend predominantly same-race vs. racially diverse day cares/schools).

This is too funny to be true.

You use a paper that actually supports the first PP (children at that age don't see color unless you teach them) while you said he was scientifically wrong.

And then you use the same paper to claim "by extension" something else for which you provide no direct evidence.

Bye PhD genius

PP here. You're misunderstanding the research--it basically states that infants are picking up ingroup preference by three months old. No one is teaching these infants "color." They are picking up this awareness from their surroundings.

You are right re: my speculation. However, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to predict that kids who attend more diverse schools will show less ingroup preference than those who attend predominantly same-race schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady or man- children at that age don’t see in color, unless that is something you are teaching your 3yr old..and all black children in public schools are not low-income. Put your energy into what the schools have to offer your child, not what color the kids are. Your kid would be just fine, as for you, I don’t know.

This is categorically, scientifically, untrue.

NP: Nope, it's very true.

Btw, when you invoke science you should always be prepared to offer relevant references in top-quality journals. Please go ahead.

NP. No, the onus is on the person who first made the claim to back it up with data.

Nonetheless, I'll go ahead--the fact that children in fact do "see in color" at an early age is pretty well-established, by my read (I have a Ph.D., but in a related area). For example, I remember that the following research was cited in the book Nurture Shock. It basically says that not only can young infants differentiate between races, but they seem to prefer the faces of adults that belong to their own race.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

PP again. The upside is that apparently this preference for their own race is learned, not innate. By extension, it seems that if you would want your white kid to not automatically have a preference for other white kids, you'd send them to a school that is diverse from a young age. I don't have time to look that up right now, but that would be an interesting study, if it hasn't already been done (e.g., measuring ingroup racial preference in young white kids who attend predominantly same-race vs. racially diverse day cares/schools).

This is too funny to be true.

You use a paper that actually supports the first PP (children at that age don't see color unless you teach them) while you said he was scientifically wrong.

And then you use the same paper to claim "by extension" something else for which you provide no direct evidence.

Bye PhD genius

Most social science research is crap - unless it has been replicated, don't believe it. But common sense and observation makes clear that 3 year old are generally happy to play together and innocent and don't judge each other based on race. I am sure they have notions of race, but I agree with the spirit of the original comment.

[Anonymous]

Center City- definitely. They are diverse schools (lots of African, A-A, and Latinx kids) and caring environments.

KIPP- not a chance in hell.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, this is a real consideration for us as well in evaluating schools for DD who will start pk-3 next year. She has always been the only or one of the only white children in her daycare (currently I think she is one of 3) and she thinks nothing of it. Neither do we. I would expect the same to be true for pk and early elementary, but I worry that as she gets older it may be more challenging for her to be the only white student in her class or perhaps her grade. I’m very comfortable with white students being in the majority, but I would like there to be at least 10% white kids - though that is completely arbitrary. My fear, which may be unfounded, is that she would be singled out or picked on as the only white student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, this is a real consideration for us as well in evaluating schools for DD who will start pk-3 next year. She has always been the only or one of the only white children in her daycare (currently I think she is one of 3) and she thinks nothing of it. Neither do we. I would expect the same to be true for pk and early elementary, but I worry that as she gets older it may be more challenging for her to be the only white student in her class or perhaps her grade. I’m very comfortable with white students being in the majority, but I would like there to be at least 10% white kids - though that is completely arbitrary. My fear, which may be unfounded, is that she would be singled out or picked on as the only white student.

This hasn’t been our experience, even in upper elementary. What I’ve found is that because the kids have grown up together, they accept each other as they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is black and I would not want to send him to a school where he would be the *only* black kid. But there are all kinds of studies about black kids being stereotyped as troublemakers by teachers and administration, so the reasoning is a little different. Another (AA) friend has her kid in an almost-all-white school because they have the SN programs that work for him. So you've got to decide based on your options and particular circumstances.

That said, my reservations are about school over the long haul, particularly middle school and up (when the "-to prison" pipeline kicks into high gear). PK3 is essentially free daycare and all DC schools do it fairly well, so if by some chance a school where my kid would be the only black kid was our best option for PK3, I'd probably be fine with it.

I think this is a crucial difference. OP's white child is unlikely to be burdened with negative stereotypes in PK3.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, what do white people think? Do you think your child will be harmed by minority children? The fact that you are concerned is fascinating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, what do white people think? Do you think your child will be harmed by minority children? The fact that you are concerned is fascinating.

Honestly, what would you do as a black parent in say Zimbabwe or Kenya?

Would you truly send your kid to an all-white school, no questions asked?

I doubt so, but hey, feel free to try and report back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would send them to KIPP because I think it's a high-quality curriculum with families that value education. I'd be more worried about whether the teaching approach is a good fit for my particular kid than race. I know there's a lot of skepticism about KIPP but as it turns out my high SES white kid LOVES structure, and absolutely floundered in a more touch-feely "play based" PK. He would likely have loved KIPP.

I feel the same way. Visit both schools and see how the classroom management and m.o. of the school (give homework or not, amount of playtime, outdoor time/space, schedule, etc.) matches or clashes with your preferences. About being "the only" -- I don't think this is an inherent problem, especially not for a white child. I would highly doubt a white three year old will experience any racial discrimination at school (and if so, it could be a good learning experience). Encourage the child to make friends in school. Meet other parents and arrange play dates. We did this when our child was literally the only white child in class and it was great; we made many new friends.

A white child experiencing racial discrimination at school as a three year old could "be a good learning experience". Are you drunk? Crawl back into your hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would send them to KIPP because I think it's a high-quality curriculum with families that value education. I'd be more worried about whether the teaching approach is a good fit for my particular kid than race. I know there's a lot of skepticism about KIPP but as it turns out my high SES white kid LOVES structure, and absolutely floundered in a more touch-feely "play based" PK. He would likely have loved KIPP.

I feel the same way. Visit both schools and see how the classroom management and m.o. of the school (give homework or not, amount of playtime, outdoor time/space, schedule, etc.) matches or clashes with your preferences. About being "the only" -- I don't think this is an inherent problem, especially not for a white child. I would highly doubt a white three year old will experience any racial discrimination at school (and if so, it could be a good learning experience). Encourage the child to make friends in school. Meet other parents and arrange play dates. We did this when our child was literally the only white child in class and it was great; we made many new friends.

A white child experiencing racial discrimination at school as a three year old could "be a good learning experience". Are you drunk? Crawl back into your hole.

+1.

Signed,

Minority