Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?

[Anonymous]

You don’t need to have one person per kid, OP. Even if you were a SAHM, you would have large chunks of they day where there was only one parent with all three kids. I am sure that your two kids don’t spend much of their day in 1:1 care right now.

What sounds like more of an issue is that you are doing a lot of work from home while your kids are sleeping or occupied with activities. And I have to agree that another child will definitely make working at home without childcare more difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to have one person per kid, OP. Even if you were a SAHM, you would have large chunks of they day where there was only one parent with all three kids. I am sure that your two kids don’t spend much of their day in 1:1 care right now.

What sounds like more of an issue is that you are doing a lot of work from home while your kids are sleeping or occupied with activities. And I have to agree that another child will definitely make working at home without childcare more difficult.

True, but most of the SAHM I know with this situation really limit the number of activities each kid can do, like 2 max per season. And there is a lot of screentime. It's not so much a matter of ratio as it is lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.

OP here. I have a fairly ambitious/demanding career track, as does my partner. We both have flexible hours though so we can be home by 5, one (usually him) before, and work after the kids go to bed. We are both very hands on parents. We have two kids, I have seen both of their first steps, first words, and other milestones.

Here's the thing about three kids, logistically. The oldest is doing about six different activities, all of which he loves, and I like being able to be there. Youngest is too young for all that, but I hope by the time it's their turn the oldest will have narrowed things down a bit. I guess I have difficulty imagining how adding another kid would figure into that equation. I don't want my kid to spend their whole childhood with a nanny or au pair picking them up, driving them around, cooking with them. I know a young woman like that and she is closer to the person who raised her than to her mother. I feel like a lot of conversations about feelings and big conversations happen in the car, and as they get older I know that will be even more important.

It sounds like most people with two FT working parents and three kids have a lot of outside help. I'm ambivalent about that. If we could have three without stretching ourselves too thin, I might consider that -- we both don't have much family around, and I like the thought of the kids having each other. But it seems like each kid would have less parental attention.

So right now, you drive one kid around while your husband stays at home with the other kid or vice versa? And you are thinking that if you have a third, then you will both have to stay home and get an au pair to drive the kids? No. You will just take the baby to karate class and play peekaboo. I suppose it’s less attention, but does anyone really need to have their mother staring at them intently throughout soccer practice?
Now, you may need to hire out someone to do the laundry, but I don’t think you need a bunch of extra childcare for a third child. The reason you are seeing responses about getting a lot of childcare is because you asked about having an ambitious career as the default parent on a website where people routinely work 60+ hours a week. If you asked about households with two spouses who are home by 5pm every night, I think you would see different responses.

We do routinely work 60+ hours a week. Kids are in bed by 7 and we are back at it soon after.

As for the third, the problem is not necessarily with a baby or even a toddler. The problem is when one has this activity on one side of town and the other had something else and the third has another thing, add in increased social activities and travel for music/sports, x7 days a week. It's not just the activities, too. It's homework, practice at home, and emotional needs. I definitely think you will need at least one person per kid unless you want to leave them in aftercare or have a nanny/au pair doing most of the shuttling around.

I am assuming your kid does 6 activities throughout the year, not at the same time. I have 3 kids and am a SAHM. Youngest is 2 and two boys in elementary.

You do not stick the same kid with the babysitter. In our house, babysitter will be home with kid(s) not participating in an activity. I have also had babysitter take kid(s) activities or help drop off or pick up. We prefer to usually take child to activity though. I also try to do as many activities at school right after school or lessons at home. Like my one kid did science Olympiad and we coached. We had kids come to our house to practice. Our kids take tennis lessons together, piano lessons in our home, stuff like that. Sports where you don’t get the practice and game schedule until the week prior is the killer. I have also tried carpooling but it doesn’t always work out so well with timing. Practice is often at 5 or 6, smack in the middle of rush hour and meal time. Picking up a kid who lives 5 min away can be a 20min detour. But as you get to know others, you chip in and so do others. This often happens on weekends when your children have overlapping games. For us, it was more when DH was traveling for work. I would get a sitter for the baby but still couldn’t be at two games at once.

My daughter does activities during the day when older kids are in school.

[Anonymous]

Please also keep in mind that even when you have an awesome nanny, nannies are humans and get sick, have cars break down, have family emergencies. Think about what you’ll do when you have a big meeting at 9 am and spouse is traveling or has a big deadline coming up and nanny calls out that morning. It’s hard to find that awesome nanny by the way, even when you’re willing to pay.

[Anonymous]

We have 3 kids and DH and I both have big jobs. DH works more than I do - like 60+ hours per week and his job is not flexible. I work more like 45-50 hours per week and my job is a little more flexible. I rarely work from home, but if someone is sick or I need to go in late/leave early not a big deal from time to time.

We make it work with an amazing full-time nanny (live-out), a cleaning lady once a week, and a part time afternoon sitter. I take the two older kids to school (they are in the same elementary), younger kid is in preschool 3 days per week from 8:30-11:30am. Sometimes DH take him, most of the time the nanny takes him. While he is in school she will grocery shop or do laundry. Nanny does school pick up for older kids and shuttles them to activities, while an afternoon sitter hangs with the younger one who is often napping for a big chunk of the time.

Re: the comments about barely getting to see our kids, the time we spend with them is no different whether we had one kid or five. We would still work these same jobs. We make the time we do have with our kids count by trying to be as present as possible and really engaging them. When DH and I are home it's family time. I have plenty of SAHM mom friends who just let their kids watch a ton of TV or always have friends over so they don't have to deal with them 24/7 - which I am not judging, I am just saying it's not like they are engaging their kids every second.

[Anonymous]

It is only possible if you are willing to outsource nearly all childcare responsibilities. That doesn’t sound like the kind of parent you want to be, op. Three is indeed the tipping point for parents with two big careers (big meaning hour or travel intensive).

Side note, Do people really think working most nights after kids are in bed is a good quality life? By the time kids are in middle school, if not earlier, there is no after bed work time anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need to have one person per kid, OP. Even if you were a SAHM, you would have large chunks of they day where there was only one parent with all three kids. I am sure that your two kids don’t spend much of their day in 1:1 care right now.

What sounds like more of an issue is that you are doing a lot of work from home while your kids are sleeping or occupied with activities. And I have to agree that another child will definitely make working at home without childcare more difficult.

True, but most of the SAHM I know with this situation really limit the number of activities each kid can do, like 2 max per season. And there is a lot of screentime. It's not so much a matter of ratio as it is lifestyle.

I don’t the basis for claiming SAHMs allowing more screen time. Every nanny my kids have had has allowed far more screen time that I have asked for. It is so hard to get a reliable nanny, it is something I have had to accept.. I have never seen a nanny or daycare worker more engaged with kids than their actual parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.

Okay, what?! You don't honestly mean outsourcing all of your childcare... or maybe you do. Because actively parenting kids is hard work, and there is a huge difference when more kids are added. Each kid is an individual and then you parent the dynamics between multiple kids.

And to OP: I have three and purposely chose a less competitive path for my career. I'm still somewhat ambitious, but not to the extent that I'm willing to work all hours or stress myself half to death. Part of it has nothing to do with kids: I have a wicked exercise habit I've cultivated for years, and too much work gets in the way of that.

I am not quite sure what you are saying here. But yes...if you are the kind of parent who is willing to skip the big meeting to pick up kids at school, then it doesn’t matter (in terms of your career) whether there is one kid at that bus stop or five. And if you are the kind of parent who is aiming to be leading the big meeting and has hired a nanny to pick up kids at the bus stop, then it doesn’t matter if it’s one kid or five.
I am not trying to say that your home life isnt any different. Of course it is. But your work life doesn’t have to significantly change.

It’s not rocket science. If you are home for four hours a day, you are going to have more oppportunity to give each kid one on one time than if you are home for one hour. Concersely, if you are home for two hours, you will have more one on one time with each child if you have only two than if you have three.

Of course, if you don’t care about spending any individual time with a child, your point holds. But if that’s how you feel, why bother having kids to begin with?

[Anonymous]

I posted earlier about both being in biglaw but after reading the whole thread I realize we are only okay because we have grandparents close by. I feel 0 guilt about letting grandparents fill in for stuff a mom might do like piano lessons. My kids are very close to their grandparents, too, which I think is a benefit.

[Anonymous]

OP, be smart about what you outsource. My husband and I both have "big" careers, so we spend a lot of money outsourcing the non-kid stuff - cleaning, gardening, laundry, grocery shopping, food prep, some meal prep, dog washing, car washing, etc. We also have a full-time nanny who of course cares for the kids while we work, but we're both senior enough now that we are home for breakfast and dinner every day and rarely ever have to do work on weekends. We both do travel and that ebbs and flows but luckily it's not generally too long or too far. Outsourcing so much stuff allows us to spend quality time with our kids because we basically don't have any errands to run when we're not at work unless it's something we want to do with the kids (pick out a Christmas tree, for example).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.

Okay, what?! You don't honestly mean outsourcing all of your childcare... or maybe you do. Because actively parenting kids is hard work, and there is a huge difference when more kids are added. Each kid is an individual and then you parent the dynamics between multiple kids.

And to OP: I have three and purposely chose a less competitive path for my career. I'm still somewhat ambitious, but not to the extent that I'm willing to work all hours or stress myself half to death. Part of it has nothing to do with kids: I have a wicked exercise habit I've cultivated for years, and too much work gets in the way of that.

I am not quite sure what you are saying here. But yes...if you are the kind of parent who is willing to skip the big meeting to pick up kids at school, then it doesn’t matter (in terms of your career) whether there is one kid at that bus stop or five. And if you are the kind of parent who is aiming to be leading the big meeting and has hired a nanny to pick up kids at the bus stop, then it doesn’t matter if it’s one kid or five.
I am not trying to say that your home life isnt any different. Of course it is. But your work life doesn’t have to significantly change.

It’s not rocket science. If you are home for four hours a day, you are going to have more oppportunity to give each kid one on one time than if you are home for one hour. Concersely, if you are home for two hours, you will have more one on one time with each child if you have only two than if you have three.

Of course, if you don’t care about spending any individual time with a child, your point holds. But if that’s how you feel, why bother having kids to begin with?

I had children because I knew they would be awesome people, and I wanted them to exist. And I was right, and they are. And I am glad that I have the privilege of raising them and seeing them grow up. I didn’t have children because I need to spend hours a day alone with a child. That actually seems like kind of a unique reason to have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 24 hours in a day. Something has to give. I have three kids and work full-time but my job is somewhat flexible as long as it’s not during my 2 month busy period and even then I can take a couple planned days off. My DH works more hours than me but has no trouble working from home a few times a month. We have a full-time nanny.

I’m the kind of mom who likes to volunteer at school, throw birthday parties, attend karate and dance with the kids, cook and eat meals with my children. My DH is the sort of dad who wants to be at parent teacher conferences and pediatrician appointments with us. He is home for dinner and bedtime almost every night and just works again afterwards. We had three kids because we wanted to do these things. I personally can’t imagine not being an involved parent, and I do wonder why people keep having kids if they have no interest in the day to day parenting. 1 or 2 sure, but why 3+?

We both work in biglaw and we both do all the stuff you mention. What, do you think biglawyers don’t go to parent teacher conferences or plan their kids’ birthday parties? Honestly “big” jobs often have more hours flexibility. We chaperone field trips, have play dates with neighbors, attend dance/gymnastics not always but sometimes.

I was in big law, too. So I know exactly what it’s like. I most certainly would not have been able to make my billables and spend the time with my kids that I do now. Plus the stress would have definitely taken away from the enjoyment. Last minute client emergencies meant unexpected late nights and cancelled plans. No thanks.

My H is in biglaw and while it definitely has client demands, there are no nights at the office after 7 or 8. I know it is different for the corporate folks, but he is senior enough now that he leaves at a reasonable hour and works after the kids go to bed. He goes to parent conferences and chaperones field trips for each kid once a year (I am just on standby as a just in case).He travels for work, but I am not in a position that travels. I think 3+ kids is pretty common among his colleagues, but all of them have a spouse that does not travel. We definitely hire out many non-kid related tasks (cleaning/yard mantienence/cooking a few days a week/drycleaning door-to-door).

If he's getting home at 7:30-8:30, how much time does he really spend with the kids?

Not the PP, but for two working parents, regardless of whether the job is "big" or not, you really aren't spending much time with them at night. That is just reality. I leave work a little before 5 each day, but the time I get my son from daycare and we get back to our house (we walk), it is almost 6. He goes to bed a little after 7, so I get about an hour with him, my husband (BigLaw) gets about 20-30 minutes, depending on the night. Neither of those are very long, you know? So you might as well work a big job and get the extra money and flexibility that comes along with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, be smart about what you outsource. My husband and I both have "big" careers, so we spend a lot of money outsourcing the non-kid stuff - cleaning, gardening, laundry, grocery shopping, food prep, some meal prep, dog washing, car washing, etc. We also have a full-time nanny who of course cares for the kids while we work, but we're both senior enough now that we are home for breakfast and dinner every day and rarely ever have to do work on weekends. We both do travel and that ebbs and flows but luckily it's not generally too long or too far. Outsourcing so much stuff allows us to spend quality time with our kids because we basically don't have any errands to run when we're not at work unless it's something we want to do with the kids (pick out a Christmas tree, for example).

+1, I feel like this is us too. A benefit of waiting a little later to have kids means we were able to build up more seniority in our careers and gain some "cred" and flexibility to do family stuff when needed.

[Anonymous]

Everyone is talking strictly about time here. As someone who used to have a “big job” and is married to someone who still does, I think the bigger issue is stress, mental energy, exhaustion, and patience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is talking strictly about time here. As someone who used to have a “big job” and is married to someone who still does, I think the bigger issue is stress, mental energy, exhaustion, and patience.

Agreed, those are issues. I'm the PP who outsources - this allows me to not add to the stress, mental energy, etc. that my job requires. It lets me be perfectly content to play a game of War (the infinite card game) that lasts an hour when I'm home because I don't have anything else I need to do. I try very hard to leave work at work (not always possible when in a client-related field - I'm a lawyer). Also, having a full-time nanny lets us sleep in sometimes and wake up with the kids because she will take them to school (we can still get them dressed and have breakfast and can then worry about ourselves). Of course, we're not perfect, and we do let work stress/exhaustion affect us sometimes, but not having to start a meal from scratch after a horrible day at work makes it easier to just spend happy time with the kids.