Anyone have three kids and consider themselves ambitious/ in a competitive career?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I posted earlier about both being in biglaw but after reading the whole thread I realize we are only okay because we have grandparents close by. I feel 0 guilt about letting grandparents fill in for stuff a mom might do like piano lessons. My kids are very close to their grandparents, too, which I think is a benefit.

I could do so much more if we had helpful grandparents nearby. Seriously. It's an area where paid help just doesn't cut it, unless you have paid help that's available at all hours for things here and there (and we don't have the money for that). Like when the logistics don't quite work out like when one kid has this activity but you have to pick up the other and you've got a 20 minute gap in coverage -- grandparent would be awesome!

[Anonymous]

Former first lady Michelle Obama said Saturday that it's not always enough for women to "lean in" when trying to find a balance between their marriage and career.

“That whole ‘so you can have it all.’ Nope, not at the same time,” Obama said while speaking in Brooklyn as she promoted her book, "Becoming," according to New York magazine.

“That’s a lie. And it’s not always enough to lean in, because that shit doesn’t work all the time.”

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/...nt-work-all-the-time

Truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of them have nannies and a lot of child care and other help and those people are the default parents.

Exactly. End thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in biglaw and I feel like having 3 kids is super common. Even when both spouses have “big” jobs. E.g. I know a male partner with an obstetrician wife.

This is super common for male partners, not female partners - all the female partners at my biglaw law firm (including me) have 1-2 kids. None has 3+ (although several of the male partners do). We thought very hard about having a third, but ultimately determined that we just did not have the necessary time - and taking another maternity leave I believed would have been detrimental to my career/client development. So we are happy with our 2!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is talking strictly about time here. As someone who used to have a “big job” and is married to someone who still does, I think the bigger issue is stress, mental energy, exhaustion, and patience.

OP here. Thanks, you articulated a big part of it. Beyond the stress, there’s a level of creativity and intellectual energy that goes into my work. I would say that so far having kids has enhanced that but it is largely because we maxed on the help. I’m not 100% sure that is the balance I would have wanted had I not been at a make or break point (tenure track).

Anyway, this has been an interesting thread. Maybe because DC based it seems most ppl are considering career in money terms, not other kinds of contributions. Like Obama wanting to be a leader or, I dunno, a scientist wanting to make a breakthrough. I wonder how compatible that is with a bigger family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted earlier about both being in biglaw but after reading the whole thread I realize we are only okay because we have grandparents close by. I feel 0 guilt about letting grandparents fill in for stuff a mom might do like piano lessons. My kids are very close to their grandparents, too, which I think is a benefit.

I could do so much more if we had helpful grandparents nearby. Seriously. It's an area where paid help just doesn't cut it, unless you have paid help that's available at all hours for things here and there (and we don't have the money for that). Like when the logistics don't quite work out like when one kid has this activity but you have to pick up the other and you've got a 20 minute gap in coverage -- grandparent would be awesome!

+1. If you have very involved grandparents you have a built in set of surrogate parents. That is not at all our situation. I wonder if anyone with 3 has no family help and minimal outsourcing of childcare and 2 FT working parents in demanding jobs — guessing it is very uncommon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is talking strictly about time here. As someone who used to have a “big job” and is married to someone who still does, I think the bigger issue is stress, mental energy, exhaustion, and patience.

OP here. Thanks, you articulated a big part of it. Beyond the stress, there’s a level of creativity and intellectual energy that goes into my work. I would say that so far having kids has enhanced that but it is largely because we maxed on the help. I’m not 100% sure that is the balance I would have wanted had I not been at a make or break point (tenure track).

Anyway, this has been an interesting thread. Maybe because DC based it seems most ppl are considering career in money terms, not other kinds of contributions. Like Obama wanting to be a leader or, I dunno, a scientist wanting to make a breakthrough. I wonder how compatible that is with a bigger family.

IMO most of the people I see making groundbreaking contributions in the news are not mothers with 3 kids. At least I don't see myself / relate to many of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted earlier about both being in biglaw but after reading the whole thread I realize we are only okay because we have grandparents close by. I feel 0 guilt about letting grandparents fill in for stuff a mom might do like piano lessons. My kids are very close to their grandparents, too, which I think is a benefit.

I could do so much more if we had helpful grandparents nearby. Seriously. It's an area where paid help just doesn't cut it, unless you have paid help that's available at all hours for things here and there (and we don't have the money for that). Like when the logistics don't quite work out like when one kid has this activity but you have to pick up the other and you've got a 20 minute gap in coverage -- grandparent would be awesome!

Literally every family I know with 2 parents in FT careers and 3 kids has local family. I was talking about this with someone the other day actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted earlier about both being in biglaw but after reading the whole thread I realize we are only okay because we have grandparents close by. I feel 0 guilt about letting grandparents fill in for stuff a mom might do like piano lessons. My kids are very close to their grandparents, too, which I think is a benefit.

I could do so much more if we had helpful grandparents nearby. Seriously. It's an area where paid help just doesn't cut it, unless you have paid help that's available at all hours for things here and there (and we don't have the money for that). Like when the logistics don't quite work out like when one kid has this activity but you have to pick up the other and you've got a 20 minute gap in coverage -- grandparent would be awesome!

Literally every family I know with 2 parents in FT careers and 3 kids has local family. I was talking about this with someone the other day actually.

I work part time, and I still send in the grandparents to things. I've literally been triple booked for all kids on things like holiday or thanksgiving or end of year parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.

OP here. I have a fairly ambitious/demanding career track, as does my partner. We both have flexible hours though so we can be home by 5, one (usually him) before, and work after the kids go to bed. We are both very hands on parents. We have two kids, I have seen both of their first steps, first words, and other milestones.

Here's the thing about three kids, logistically. The oldest is doing about six different activities, all of which he loves, and I like being able to be there. Youngest is too young for all that, but I hope by the time it's their turn the oldest will have narrowed things down a bit. I guess I have difficulty imagining how adding another kid would figure into that equation. I don't want my kid to spend their whole childhood with a nanny or au pair picking them up, driving them around, cooking with them. I know a young woman like that and she is closer to the person who raised her than to her mother. I feel like a lot of conversations about feelings and big conversations happen in the car, and as they get older I know that will be even more important.

It sounds like most people with two FT working parents and three kids have a lot of outside help. I'm ambivalent about that. If we could have three without stretching ourselves too thin, I might consider that -- we both don't have much family around, and I like the thought of the kids having each other. But it seems like each kid would have less parental attention.

So right now, you drive one kid around while your husband stays at home with the other kid or vice versa? And you are thinking that if you have a third, then you will both have to stay home and get an au pair to drive the kids? No. You will just take the baby to karate class and play peekaboo. I suppose it’s less attention, but does anyone really need to have their mother staring at them intently throughout soccer practice?
Now, you may need to hire out someone to do the laundry, but I don’t think you need a bunch of extra childcare for a third child. The reason you are seeing responses about getting a lot of childcare is because you asked about having an ambitious career as the default parent on a website where people routinely work 60+ hours a week. If you asked about households with two spouses who are home by 5pm every night, I think you would see different responses.

We do routinely work 60+ hours a week. Kids are in bed by 7 and we are back at it soon after.

As for the third, the problem is not necessarily with a baby or even a toddler. The problem is when one has this activity on one side of town and the other had something else and the third has another thing, add in increased social activities and travel for music/sports, x7 days a week. It's not just the activities, too. It's homework, practice at home, and emotional needs. I definitely think you will need at least one person per kid unless you want to leave them in aftercare or have a nanny/au pair doing most of the shuttling around.

I am assuming your kid does 6 activities throughout the year, not at the same time. I have 3 kids and am a SAHM. Youngest is 2 and two boys in elementary.

You do not stick the same kid with the babysitter. In our house, babysitter will be home with kid(s) not participating in an activity. I have also had babysitter take kid(s) activities or help drop off or pick up. We prefer to usually take child to activity though. I also try to do as many activities at school right after school or lessons at home. Like my one kid did science Olympiad and we coached. We had kids come to our house to practice. Our kids take tennis lessons together, piano lessons in our home, stuff like that. Sports where you don’t get the practice and game schedule until the week prior is the killer. I have also tried carpooling but it doesn’t always work out so well with timing. Practice is often at 5 or 6, smack in the middle of rush hour and meal time. Picking up a kid who lives 5 min away can be a 20min detour. But as you get to know others, you chip in and so do others. This often happens on weekends when your children have overlapping games. For us, it was more when DH was traveling for work. I would get a sitter for the baby but still couldn’t be at two games at once.

My daughter does activities during the day when older kids are in school.

Nope. 6 at the same time. Two are after school on the premises, which helps. The other 4 — actually 5, if you count weekend language school (heritage language) — are all over the place. We did not intend for this, but the child had always been doing two physical activities (like since age 2) and this year we decided that swimming was crucial for safety. Then a team sport at school. Child wanted to start music and is practicing regularly without nagging. Etc. So we will see when this narrows down, but right now I think the exposure is good and child can choose what they have an aptitude for and like best.

[Anonymous]

mother of four here. My kids do plenty of activities, but frankly I don’t get the obsession over it.
I love sports. I was a competitive athelete and was on a D1 team that came in fourth at NCAAs when I was in college. Then I coached a high school travel club team while I was in medical school. I think it’s great for kids to play sports and be in shape, but I don’t get running your entire life around it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is talking strictly about time here. As someone who used to have a “big job” and is married to someone who still does, I think the bigger issue is stress, mental energy, exhaustion, and patience.

Agreed, those are issues. I'm the PP who outsources - this allows me to not add to the stress, mental energy, etc. that my job requires. It lets me be perfectly content to play a game of War (the infinite card game) that lasts an hour when I'm home because I don't have anything else I need to do. I try very hard to leave work at work (not always possible when in a client-related field - I'm a lawyer). Also, having a full-time nanny lets us sleep in sometimes and wake up with the kids because she will take them to school (we can still get them dressed and have breakfast and can then worry about ourselves). Of course, we're not perfect, and we do let work stress/exhaustion affect us sometimes, but not having to start a meal from scratch after a horrible day at work makes it easier to just spend happy time with the kids.

You also have to be ok with spending a lot less time with your kids, even if you feel the one or two hours you see them a day is all quality time,. Most upper income families I know outsource all the things you do, except childcare, at least to the same degree. It sound like your situation works well for you, many parents just want more time with their kids (kids are fine either way, as long as childcare is good).. Everyone needs to do works best for them.

[Anonymous]

Totally possible, have 4 and partner in a big firm. Just get organized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Totally possible, have 4 and partner in a big firm. Just get organized.

What is your childcare/ family help situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four kids and work PT as a physician at a major academic center. I still feel like I achieve things at work, although maybe not on the timeline I would if I didn’t have children.
But I switched to part time not long after I had my first. It didn’t have anything to do with having four kids. It seems to me that as long as you have childcare figured out, it doesn’t matter if you have one or six. I guess there is some extra cooking and laundry, but that’s easy enough to hire out.

OP here. I have a fairly ambitious/demanding career track, as does my partner. We both have flexible hours though so we can be home by 5, one (usually him) before, and work after the kids go to bed. We are both very hands on parents. We have two kids, I have seen both of their first steps, first words, and other milestones.

Here's the thing about three kids, logistically. The oldest is doing about six different activities, all of which he loves, and I like being able to be there. Youngest is too young for all that, but I hope by the time it's their turn the oldest will have narrowed things down a bit. I guess I have difficulty imagining how adding another kid would figure into that equation. I don't want my kid to spend their whole childhood with a nanny or au pair picking them up, driving them around, cooking with them. I know a young woman like that and she is closer to the person who raised her than to her mother. I feel like a lot of conversations about feelings and big conversations happen in the car, and as they get older I know that will be even more important.

It sounds like most people with two FT working parents and three kids have a lot of outside help. I'm ambivalent about that. If we could have three without stretching ourselves too thin, I might consider that -- we both don't have much family around, and I like the thought of the kids having each other. But it seems like each kid would have less parental attention.

So right now, you drive one kid around while your husband stays at home with the other kid or vice versa? And you are thinking that if you have a third, then you will both have to stay home and get an au pair to drive the kids? No. You will just take the baby to karate class and play peekaboo. I suppose it’s less attention, but does anyone really need to have their mother staring at them intently throughout soccer practice?
Now, you may need to hire out someone to do the laundry, but I don’t think you need a bunch of extra childcare for a third child. The reason you are seeing responses about getting a lot of childcare is because you asked about having an ambitious career as the default parent on a website where people routinely work 60+ hours a week. If you asked about households with two spouses who are home by 5pm every night, I think you would see different responses.

We do routinely work 60+ hours a week. Kids are in bed by 7 and we are back at it soon after.

As for the third, the problem is not necessarily with a baby or even a toddler. The problem is when one has this activity on one side of town and the other had something else and the third has another thing, add in increased social activities and travel for music/sports, x7 days a week. It's not just the activities, too. It's homework, practice at home, and emotional needs. I definitely think you will need at least one person per kid unless you want to leave them in aftercare or have a nanny/au pair doing most of the shuttling around.

I am assuming your kid does 6 activities throughout the year, not at the same time. I have 3 kids and am a SAHM. Youngest is 2 and two boys in elementary.

You do not stick the same kid with the babysitter. In our house, babysitter will be home with kid(s) not participating in an activity. I have also had babysitter take kid(s) activities or help drop off or pick up. We prefer to usually take child to activity though. I also try to do as many activities at school right after school or lessons at home. Like my one kid did science Olympiad and we coached. We had kids come to our house to practice. Our kids take tennis lessons together, piano lessons in our home, stuff like that. Sports where you don’t get the practice and game schedule until the week prior is the killer. I have also tried carpooling but it doesn’t always work out so well with timing. Practice is often at 5 or 6, smack in the middle of rush hour and meal time. Picking up a kid who lives 5 min away can be a 20min detour. But as you get to know others, you chip in and so do others. This often happens on weekends when your children have overlapping games. For us, it was more when DH was traveling for work. I would get a sitter for the baby but still couldn’t be at two games at once.

My daughter does activities during the day when older kids are in school.

Nope. 6 at the same time. Two are after school on the premises, which helps. The other 4 — actually 5, if you count weekend language school (heritage language) — are all over the place. We did not intend for this, but the child had always been doing two physical activities (like since age 2) and this year we decided that swimming was crucial for safety. Then a team sport at school. Child wanted to start music and is practicing regularly without nagging. Etc. So we will see when this narrows down, but right now I think the exposure is good and child can choose what they have an aptitude for and like best.

How old is your oldest kid?

My oldest is 9 - soccer, tennis, art, violin, piano, chess club, cub scouts and science Olympiad. I’m a SAHM. My kid is beat and we are cutting down. He looks burnt out. I think there is such thing as being over scheduled and I think my kid is. He is in AAP and has a lot of homework, tests and projects.

7yo does soccer, tennis, Art, piano, chess club and cub scouts. Biggest difference between older and younger child is homework and tests. 7yo has no homework besides reading.