SO: Thoughts on sister and her DH buying a house with my mother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I think you’re all being a bit harsh, especially since I noted in my original posting that we’d welcome having our mother move in with us — fully free of charge.

And I don’t actually know that my mother wants to move in with my sister; I do know my sister has proposed it and is trying to convince her.

It’s not crazy or selfish for me to wonder what might happen to my mother’s assets when she dies if all of the money is tied up in a shared property my sister is living in.

My father repeatedly underscored his desire for all assets to be inherited equally among his kids. And I for one have SN kids who may not be able to support themselves as adults. So wondering what implications such an arrangement might have is not just borne of selfishness.

I would be perfectly fine having my sister move in to my mother’s three bedroom apartment, free of charge.

Your SN’s children are your responsibility, not your mom’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

First, I have not objected to this proposal; I’m discussing my hesitation with DCUM, with the hopes of getting some useful practical advice. And of course I want what’s best for my mom.

And, yes, my mother’s assets are all tied up in real-estate. She owns a three-bedroom upper east side apartment in a nicely-appointed doorman building, and otherwise scrapes by on a modest pension, plus Social Security. (She is also deeply attached to the apartment, which is full of memories, not to mention a lifetime of memorabilia. Personally I unsure she should sell until she has to; she’s presently in her 70s and in good health.)

You do realize should she require full time nursing home care, the apartment would most likely have to be sold in order for her to qualify for Medicaid once she burns through the proceeds (i.e. it all goes to nursing home then Medicaid kicks in)? Not my area, but think her assets might be better protected if she sells home and buys another jointly with your sister, as long as she doesn't need fulltime residential care for another 5 years.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry OP. Your fear will come true. There's nothing you can do about it. You can forget about your inheritence.

[Anonymous]

First, you seem to believe that since you want to make sure that you get money for your SN kids, you are not being selfish. That is not true at all. (And frankly, your kids' biggest hurdle may well be a narcissistic mother.)

Your first "alternative" is to move your mother out of a city that she loves, to live with you - so you can preserve your inheritance.

Your second alternative is for your sister and her family to move into your mother's co-op, despite the fact that the people actually making the move may not want that - in order to preserve your inheritance.

In all of this, your primary goal is to preserve your inheritance. You give lip service to what is good for your mother, but in the end, it all comes back to spending the least amount of money so as to preserve your inheritance.

That's pretty despicable, OP. You're a bad person.

Also, the PP is right - is she's healthy, now is the ideal time to make this move, so as to avoid any 5-year clawback period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm with the OP. Its totally wrong for the sister to get the full inheritance simply because the mother lives with her. Is the sister prepared to cough up OP's half when the mother dies?

Who said the sister was getting the full inheritance?

If mom dies fmdp you really think the sister will sell her house just so can split the mom’s share with OP. Practically, that does not seem like a good solution and I doubt sister would agree. If sister, BIL and mom are on the deed, the house would belong to her and her husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

First, I have not objected to this proposal; I’m discussing my hesitation with DCUM, with the hopes of getting some useful practical advice. And of course I want what’s best for my mom.

And, yes, my mother’s assets are all tied up in real-estate. She owns a three-bedroom upper east side apartment in a nicely-appointed doorman building, and otherwise scrapes by on a modest pension, plus Social Security. (She is also deeply attached to the apartment, which is full of memories, not to mention a lifetime of memorabilia. Personally I unsure she should sell until she has to; she’s presently in her 70s and in good health.)

You do realize should she require full time nursing home care, the apartment would most likely have to be sold in order for her to qualify for Medicaid once she burns through the proceeds (i.e. it all goes to nursing home then Medicaid kicks in)? Not my area, but think her assets might be better protected if she sells home and buys another jointly with your sister, as long as she doesn't need fulltime residential care for another 5 years.

If she buys a house jointly with the sister and moms name is on the deed, Medicaid will go after the value of the house to cover long term care. They’re not going to overlook a multimillion dollar asset just because it’s co-owned with your sister. Your sister and her family could be stuck losing their investment or in costly legal battles just to keep their home. On the other hand your mom buying a house with them without being on the deed seems very risky for your mom. No good solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

First, I have not objected to this proposal; I’m discussing my hesitation with DCUM, with the hopes of getting some useful practical advice. And of course I want what’s best for my mom.

And, yes, my mother’s assets are all tied up in real-estate. She owns a three-bedroom upper east side apartment in a nicely-appointed doorman building, and otherwise scrapes by on a modest pension, plus Social Security. (She is also deeply attached to the apartment, which is full of memories, not to mention a lifetime of memorabilia. Personally I unsure she should sell until she has to; she’s presently in her 70s and in good health.)

You do realize should she require full time nursing home care, the apartment would most likely have to be sold in order for her to qualify for Medicaid once she burns through the proceeds (i.e. it all goes to nursing home then Medicaid kicks in)? Not my area, but think her assets might be better protected if she sells home and buys another jointly with your sister, as long as she doesn't need fulltime residential care for another 5 years.

If she buys a house jointly with the sister and moms name is on the deed, Medicaid will go after the value of the house to cover long term care. They’re not going to overlook a multimillion dollar asset just because it’s co-owned with your sister. Your sister and her family could be stuck losing their investment or in costly legal battles just to keep their home. On the other hand your mom buying a house with them without being on the deed seems very risky for your mom. No good solutions.

Probably true, but if title held only by sister and her dh, it would not be reachable provided the 5 year clawback period has expired.

[Anonymous]

In any case, if the financial scenario is as op survives, her mom is not an extremely wealthy woman and an inheritance is far from a given irrespective of sister's acts. Liquidating the real estate and protecting its value should be the goal will her mom is still healthy. The sister moving in with the mom seems to be the worst possibility.

[Anonymous]

OP is right to ask questions. Tying up an aging person’s finances in jointly owned real estate could be a giant mess on many levels. It’s not just the inheritance, but how the mother can access her assets when/if she needs to for her own care. Having that money tied up in a house she owns with her daughter could be really problematic. The inheritance issue is valid too. OP’s mother needs to be correctly advised that certain forms of title could mean the house goes 100% to only one child. Finally I think of scenarios like - the co-owner sister passes away and her husband remarries, and the property now goes to the second wife!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, you seem to believe that since you want to make sure that you get money for your SN kids, you are not being selfish. That is not true at all. (And frankly, your kids' biggest hurdle may well be a narcissistic mother.)

Your first "alternative" is to move your mother out of a city that she loves, to live with you - so you can preserve your inheritance.

Your second alternative is for your sister and her family to move into your mother's co-op, despite the fact that the people actually making the move may not want that - in order to preserve your inheritance.

In all of this, your primary goal is to preserve your inheritance. You give lip service to what is good for your mother, but in the end, it all comes back to spending the least amount of money so as to preserve your inheritance.

That's pretty despicable, OP. You're a bad person.

Also, the PP is right - is she's healthy, now is the ideal time to make this move, so as to avoid any 5-year clawback period.

but OP’s sister’s plan to get her mom to buy her a house is TOTALLY pure. right.

[Anonymous]

I would probably consider having mom sell the current apartment once she's sure she no longer wants to live there and then paying rent to sister and her husband to allow them to afford a larger apartment, if the goal is for mom to live with sister and her husband. No downpayment assistance, though.

Assuming this is an apartment that is paid off except for the monthly fees, though, it's also worth considering whether it's cheaper for her to stay there and have someone to help with the various upkeep tasks. It may well be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You shouldn’t be thinking about your inheritance, it is your mom’s decision to make.

100% this. You sound crazy selfish, OP. Your sister is offering a solution where your mother will be taken care of. You should be thrilled. I find it so odd that you use the phrase “needless to say “

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You shouldn’t be thinking about your inheritance, it is your mom’s decision to make.

100% this. You sound crazy selfish, OP. Your sister is offering a solution where your mother will be taken care of. You should be thrilled. I find it so odd that you use the phrase “needless to say “

I wish people would think a little bit further out instead of just jumping on OP as selfish. There are alot of potential downsides to this arrangement for OP's mother. The fact that her primary asset is real estate, and this plan would mean the money from that asset is still tied up in a property that the sister and family are living in. It's not inconceivable that down the road the mother could need more care than the sister can provide. Then what? The mother goes on medicaid and into medicaid-level care while the sister lives in the property? Or the property gets sold and the sister and family have to move out so the mom can have appropriate care?

It's not just that the sister is offering to take the mother in, it's that the offer comes with the string of tying up all the mother's assets into a house that they all live in. That's not necessarily in the mother's best interests, and I think it's a good thing that op is trying to understand the implications of this.

[Anonymous]

The sister can't just stay in a co-owned property--Medicaid will require that mom's share be liquidated before mom is eligible for Medicaid. I do think that's a concern to be considering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sister can't just stay in a co-owned property--Medicaid will require that mom's share be liquidated before mom is eligible for Medicaid. I do think that's a concern to be considering.

Are you sure? I thought they put a lien on primary residences.