SO: Thoughts on sister and her DH buying a house with my mother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You shouldn’t be thinking about your inheritance, it is your mom’s decision to make.

100% this. You sound crazy selfish, OP. Your sister is offering a solution where your mother will be taken care of. You should be thrilled. I find it so odd that you use the phrase “needless to say “

I wish people would think a little bit further out instead of just jumping on OP as selfish. There are alot of potential downsides to this arrangement for OP's mother. The fact that her primary asset is real estate, and this plan would mean the money from that asset is still tied up in a property that the sister and family are living in. It's not inconceivable that down the road the mother could need more care than the sister can provide. Then what? The mother goes on medicaid and into medicaid-level care while the sister lives in the property? Or the property gets sold and the sister and family have to move out so the mom can have appropriate care?

It's not just that the sister is offering to take the mother in, it's that the offer comes with the string of tying up all the mother's assets into a house that they all live in. That's not necessarily in the mother's best interests, and I think it's a good thing that op is trying to understand the implications of this.

Honestly, it is hard to think about a worse situation than her mom having nearly the entirety of her net worth tied up in a single piece of real estate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

First, I have not objected to this proposal; I’m discussing my hesitation with DCUM, with the hopes of getting some useful practical advice. And of course I want what’s best for my mom.

And, yes, my mother’s assets are all tied up in real-estate. She owns a three-bedroom upper east side apartment in a nicely-appointed doorman building, and otherwise scrapes by on a modest pension, plus Social Security. (She is also deeply attached to the apartment, which is full of memories, not to mention a lifetime of memorabilia. Personally I unsure she should sell until she has to; she’s presently in her 70s and in good health.)

I think you've received some useful practical advice: Let your mom decide for herself what she wants to do.

Meaning the current situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would probably consider having mom sell the current apartment once she's sure she no longer wants to live there and then paying rent to sister and her husband to allow them to afford a larger apartment, if the goal is for mom to live with sister and her husband. No downpayment assistance, though.

Assuming this is an apartment that is paid off except for the monthly fees, though, it's also worth considering whether it's cheaper for her to stay there and have someone to help with the various upkeep tasks. It may well be.

This. Your mother needs her assets to be accessible for her own needs, including long term care. If she needs a nursing home it will be a disaster to have her money tied up in a house.

I think the posters attacking OP are ridiculous. Why should a 70 year old need to subsidize this purchase for her child when she doesn’t have money for herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would probably consider having mom sell the current apartment once she's sure she no longer wants to live there and then paying rent to sister and her husband to allow them to afford a larger apartment, if the goal is for mom to live with sister and her husband. No downpayment assistance, though.

Assuming this is an apartment that is paid off except for the monthly fees, though, it's also worth considering whether it's cheaper for her to stay there and have someone to help with the various upkeep tasks. It may well be.

This. Your mother needs her assets to be accessible for her own needs, including long term care. If she needs a nursing home it will be a disaster to have her money tied up in a house.

I think the posters attacking OP are ridiculous. Why should a 70 year old need to subsidize this purchase for her child when she doesn’t have money for herself.

Because said child will then be providing housing and care for the mother in the city that mother wishes to reside. Who knows exactly what mom’s “modest” pension is, our source of information is a bit biased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sister can't just stay in a co-owned property--Medicaid will require that mom's share be liquidated before mom is eligible for Medicaid. I do think that's a concern to be considering.

They will not liquidate it but probably put a lien depending on the state rules. Here they put a lien on it but its a really bad idea as they will go after the entire amount until it is paid off.

The best option is for her to keep her apartment and sister and family move in. When mom passes she can pay the condo fees, upkeep and pay rent to you or other siblings, if there are any or buy you out. A 3-4 bedroom equal will be far more than one million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would probably consider having mom sell the current apartment once she's sure she no longer wants to live there and then paying rent to sister and her husband to allow them to afford a larger apartment, if the goal is for mom to live with sister and her husband. No downpayment assistance, though.

Assuming this is an apartment that is paid off except for the monthly fees, though, it's also worth considering whether it's cheaper for her to stay there and have someone to help with the various upkeep tasks. It may well be.

This. Your mother needs her assets to be accessible for her own needs, including long term care. If she needs a nursing home it will be a disaster to have her money tied up in a house.

I think the posters attacking OP are ridiculous. Why should a 70 year old need to subsidize this purchase for her child when she doesn’t have money for herself.

Because said child will then be providing housing and care for the mother in the city that mother wishes to reside. Who knows exactly what mom’s “modest” pension is, our source of information is a bit biased.

The pension and social security have to be at least $4K+ a month to afford $3K in condo fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sister can't just stay in a co-owned property--Medicaid will require that mom's share be liquidated before mom is eligible for Medicaid. I do think that's a concern to be considering.

They will not liquidate it but probably put a lien depending on the state rules. Here they put a lien on it but its a really bad idea as they will go after the entire amount until it is paid off.

The best option is for her to keep her apartment and sister and family move in. When mom passes she can pay the condo fees, upkeep and pay rent to you or other siblings, if there are any or buy you out. A 3-4 bedroom equal will be far more than one million.

The issue we ran into in our family (townhouse co-owned by a trust of several siblings, and one needed Medicaid) wasn't so much how Medicaid would go after the money, but the fact that they would not certify eligibility until that asset had been exhausted in some way or another. (Other siblings also had the option of buying the third out, I believe, but opted not to do so.) That was a huge issue because the sibling needing care couldn't go into a long-term care facility paid by Medicaid until that happened. The whole thing was just a huge mess, and took hours upon hours of time to get resolved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would probably consider having mom sell the current apartment once she's sure she no longer wants to live there and then paying rent to sister and her husband to allow them to afford a larger apartment, if the goal is for mom to live with sister and her husband. No downpayment assistance, though.

Assuming this is an apartment that is paid off except for the monthly fees, though, it's also worth considering whether it's cheaper for her to stay there and have someone to help with the various upkeep tasks. It may well be.

This. Your mother needs her assets to be accessible for her own needs, including long term care. If she needs a nursing home it will be a disaster to have her money tied up in a house.

I think the posters attacking OP are ridiculous. Why should a 70 year old need to subsidize this purchase for her child when she doesn’t have money for herself.

Because said child will then be providing housing and care for the mother in the city that mother wishes to reside. Who knows exactly what mom’s “modest” pension is, our source of information is a bit biased.

DP. I suspect that the minute mom's care gets too hard, sister will want her in assisted living but will expect OP to share the costs. Sister sounds pretty greedy to me. OPs mom would be better off selling the apartment when the time comes, but keeping the proceeds to help.her in her old.age, not to subsidize an adult child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

First, I have not objected to this proposal; I’m discussing my hesitation with DCUM, with the hopes of getting some useful practical advice. And of course I want what’s best for my mom.

And, yes, my mother’s assets are all tied up in real-estate. She owns a three-bedroom upper east side apartment in a nicely-appointed doorman building, and otherwise scrapes by on a modest pension, plus Social Security. (She is also deeply attached to the apartment, which is full of memories, not to mention a lifetime of memorabilia. Personally I unsure she should sell until she has to; she’s presently in her 70s and in good health.)

I think you've received some useful practical advice: Let your mom decide for herself what she wants to do.

Meaning the current situation.

Yes. The current "situation."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would probably consider having mom sell the current apartment once she's sure she no longer wants to live there and then paying rent to sister and her husband to allow them to afford a larger apartment, if the goal is for mom to live with sister and her husband. No downpayment assistance, though.

Assuming this is an apartment that is paid off except for the monthly fees, though, it's also worth considering whether it's cheaper for her to stay there and have someone to help with the various upkeep tasks. It may well be.

This. Your mother needs her assets to be accessible for her own needs, including long term care. If she needs a nursing home it will be a disaster to have her money tied up in a house.

I think the posters attacking OP are ridiculous. Why should a 70 year old need to subsidize this purchase for her child when she doesn’t have money for herself.

Because said child will then be providing housing and care for the mother in the city that mother wishes to reside. Who knows exactly what mom’s “modest” pension is, our source of information is a bit biased.

DP. I suspect that the minute mom's care gets too hard, sister will want her in assisted living but will expect OP to share the costs. Sister sounds pretty greedy to me. OPs mom would be better off selling the apartment when the time comes, but keeping the proceeds to help.her in her old.age, not to subsidize an adult child.

100+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You shouldn’t be thinking about your inheritance, it is your mom’s decision to make.

100% this. You sound crazy selfish, OP. Your sister is offering a solution where your mother will be taken care of. You should be thrilled. I find it so odd that you use the phrase “needless to say “

I wish people would think a little bit further out instead of just jumping on OP as selfish. There are alot of potential downsides to this arrangement for OP's mother. The fact that her primary asset is real estate, and this plan would mean the money from that asset is still tied up in a property that the sister and family are living in. It's not inconceivable that down the road the mother could need more care than the sister can provide. Then what? The mother goes on medicaid and into medicaid-level care while the sister lives in the property? Or the property gets sold and the sister and family have to move out so the mom can have appropriate care?

It's not just that the sister is offering to take the mother in, it's that the offer comes with the string of tying up all the mother's assets into a house that they all live in. That's not necessarily in the mother's best interests, and I think it's a good thing that op is trying to understand the implications of this.

As a thought experiment, imagine OP doesn't exist, and the NY sister is an only child. Would that change your assessment?

[Anonymous]

OPs mom and sister should talk this through with an elder care attorney or financial planner who is well-versed in issues around elder and long-term care, for all the reasons PP mentioned (needing assets for possible future care as mom ages).

[Anonymous]

OP, I have a somewhat similar situation, only I have a disabled husband and we need to buy a house that is more handicapped accessible for him. Meanwhile his elderly mother has decent assets and is living on her own but more and more in need of companionship and help. I had (briefly) considered asking her to move in with us and to contribute towards a downpayment on a house that was suitable for disabled people. That would allow us to be able to afford certain renovations that would make her life and my husband's a lot nicer.

However, after thinking about this plan for a brief period of time, I realized it would be incredibly complicated. First it would put me in the position of caring for 2 people. Next the question of what happens if she gets to the stage of needing more full time care? Do we sell the house so she can get her money out of it? Uprooting me and my family at that point?

What if she hates living with us and wants to move out? What if my husband and I divorce? It just seemed really complicated. I believe that you shouldn't co-own a primary residence with anyone but a spouse.

I could see your mom moving in with your sister somewhere but paying something towards rent or the mortgage to make it more affordable.

I don't think you are selfish for questioning this plan, however, I would not mention concerns about your inheritance when discussing it with your sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have a somewhat similar situation, only I have a disabled husband and we need to buy a house that is more handicapped accessible for him. Meanwhile his elderly mother has decent assets and is living on her own but more and more in need of companionship and help. I had (briefly) considered asking her to move in with us and to contribute towards a downpayment on a house that was suitable for disabled people. That would allow us to be able to afford certain renovations that would make her life and my husband's a lot nicer.

However, after thinking about this plan for a brief period of time, I realized it would be incredibly complicated. First it would put me in the position of caring for 2 people. Next the question of what happens if she gets to the stage of needing more full time care? Do we sell the house so she can get her money out of it? Uprooting me and my family at that point?

What if she hates living with us and wants to move out? What if my husband and I divorce? It just seemed really complicated. I believe that you shouldn't co-own a primary residence with anyone but a spouse.

I could see your mom moving in with your sister somewhere but paying something towards rent or the mortgage to make it more affordable.

I don't think you are selfish for questioning this plan, however, I would not mention concerns about your inheritance when discussing it with your sister.

These are really good points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would probably consider having mom sell the current apartment once she's sure she no longer wants to live there and then paying rent to sister and her husband to allow them to afford a larger apartment, if the goal is for mom to live with sister and her husband. No downpayment assistance, though.

Assuming this is an apartment that is paid off except for the monthly fees, though, it's also worth considering whether it's cheaper for her to stay there and have someone to help with the various upkeep tasks. It may well be.

This. Your mother needs her assets to be accessible for her own needs, including long term care. If she needs a nursing home it will be a disaster to have her money tied up in a house.

I think the posters attacking OP are ridiculous. Why should a 70 year old need to subsidize this purchase for her child when she doesn’t have money for herself.

There's a complete disconnect here. You raise valid points regarding whether this is a good ides *for the mother*. But that has nothing to do with why people are attacking OP. Her concern here is pretty apparently only for her inheritance, and what she can get for her kids, not for what is best for her mother. *That* is why she's being attacked.