Breadwinner wants out of the rat race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey OP. I’m double biglaw now so I really understand what you’re saying. Ignore the MRA trolls. Nothing you said was selfish or wrong.

Making partner is a great gold star. You guys have a ton of longer term options. You’re totally right that the comp is back-loaded but walking away from partner *today* doesn’t mean walking away from that comp forever. I work at one of the old school white shoe firms an I know a bunch of partners who did a stint in gov or in house and came back. He just has to be strategic. Help him develop a long term plan that keeps doors open and him at home for a while.

I agree with your second paragraph, but I am absolutely not an MRA troll, and I think OP came across as pretty callous and selfish in her OP. I am a working mom with a happy long-term marriage.

And I think you came off as an a-hole but maybe we can focus on having a productive dialogue. I know that’s tough for DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your main concern is the drop in income and lifestyle adjustments that will need to happen. Understandable, but that's not really fair to the person who is burdened with maintaining that. I think you need to be as supportive as possible of what your DH wants to do about his career, and find a way as a couple to make that happen for him - just as you'd want him to support your career choices. Sit down together and go over the budget to figure out how things will look, and discuss your concerns with him. But at the end of the day, you really need to trust that he'll make the decision that's best for everyone. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of resentment between you two.

I also don't think you can expect him to handle it the same way you would if you were the one who had stayed in BigLaw. And like you said, you really DON'T know how you'd be feeling at this point in your career had you stayed, so that line of thinking is totally irrelevant.

If you are really concerned about the money, go back to a firm or get a higher paying job yourself.

OP here. Thank you for some actual advice. These are helpful suggestions. As I hope was clear in my post, I do want to support him and do want him to be less stressed and happier. I'm just trying to figure out how to re-jigger the way we save because I want to be prudent about college savings, retirement, etc. and admittedly it was a lot easier to do that with a sky-high HHI.

I'll ignore the other trolls.

This is demonstrably not true. Your initial post *was* clear - it just doesn't say what you now claim it says. In your OP, the questions you asked were "But what do you do when your breadwinner wants to cut your HHI by 60-70%? How do I navigate this with him?" Not "How do a revise our financial plan? how do we go about retirement savings with a reduced income?" You went on and on about how he was going back on the "bargain" and how, if your roles were reversed, *you* would have "toughed it out," and then asked how do you deal with *him*? Not your finances - him.

And now that your are getting pushback, people who are calling you out are trolls, and you just wanted to know what to cut from the budget. You are full of crap, OP. It's clear from your post that you are disgruntled about the potential changes to your lifestyle, and want him to continue in biglaw. All the pablum about "wanting to support him" was just you reciting how you *should* feel, rather than how you actually feel.

And for the record, how you actually feel is pretty damn selfish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your main concern is the drop in income and lifestyle adjustments that will need to happen. Understandable, but that's not really fair to the person who is burdened with maintaining that. I think you need to be as supportive as possible of what your DH wants to do about his career, and find a way as a couple to make that happen for him - just as you'd want him to support your career choices. Sit down together and go over the budget to figure out how things will look, and discuss your concerns with him. But at the end of the day, you really need to trust that he'll make the decision that's best for everyone. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of resentment between you two.

I also don't think you can expect him to handle it the same way you would if you were the one who had stayed in BigLaw. And like you said, you really DON'T know how you'd be feeling at this point in your career had you stayed, so that line of thinking is totally irrelevant.

If you are really concerned about the money, go back to a firm or get a higher paying job yourself.

After being at a non profit serving some mission that no one cares about, I guarantee OP's not going to be able to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey OP. I’m double biglaw now so I really understand what you’re saying. Ignore the MRA trolls. Nothing you said was selfish or wrong.

Making partner is a great gold star. You guys have a ton of longer term options. You’re totally right that the comp is back-loaded but walking away from partner *today* doesn’t mean walking away from that comp forever. I work at one of the old school white shoe firms an I know a bunch of partners who did a stint in gov or in house and came back. He just has to be strategic. Help him develop a long term plan that keeps doors open and him at home for a while.

I agree with your second paragraph, but I am absolutely not an MRA troll, and I think OP came across as pretty callous and selfish in her OP. I am a working mom with a happy long-term marriage.

And I think you came off as an a-hole but maybe we can focus on having a productive dialogue. I know that’s tough for DCUM.

Hm. Well, I have a hard time figuring out what I said that made me an a-hole (my first post was the one where I said I thought OP came across as callous), but I don't call people names when they disagree with me either.

You definitely sound like a biglaw partner, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey OP. I’m double biglaw now so I really understand what you’re saying. Ignore the MRA trolls. Nothing you said was selfish or wrong.

Making partner is a great gold star. You guys have a ton of longer term options. You’re totally right that the comp is back-loaded but walking away from partner *today* doesn’t mean walking away from that comp forever. I work at one of the old school white shoe firms an I know a bunch of partners who did a stint in gov or in house and came back. He just has to be strategic. Help him develop a long term plan that keeps doors open and him at home for a while.

I agree with your second paragraph, but I am absolutely not an MRA troll, and I think OP came across as pretty callous and selfish in her OP. I am a working mom with a happy long-term marriage.

And I think you came off as an a-hole but maybe we can focus on having a productive dialogue. I know that’s tough for DCUM.

It's tough here because a-holes like you. Hard to believe, I know.

[Anonymous]

We are older but have gone through something similar. Well into our 30's we both had "big jobs" and it was unsustainable with three kids. Our choices were to both dial it back and find more flexible jobs that didn't require travel, or one of us quit. We talked about it at length and I quit. Fast forward 10+ years and DH wants out of the rat race. While I'd be totally happy to go back to work and trade places, that isn't possible. The job I had at age 35 is not going to hire me back at age 50.

After much talking we were able to work through a compromise. DH stayed at his job a few more years, in order for us to meet some financial goals that we defined, primarily funding college & retirement, and so that our kids could stay in their high school. DH recently quit and we are downsizing dramatically to a lower-cost area and lifestyle. I will go back to work -- but after watching me apply to jobs that DH is well aware that any dreams he had of me getting a big job are unrealistic.

I think it is ok to be a little bit upset that the bargain didn't work out. After all, you gave up your career and as much as posters are saying to go back to your old job, that probably isn't an option. Define what you need (for me that was our kids' education) and work from there. FWIW, it is really nice having DH around more after years of long hours and travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your main concern is the drop in income and lifestyle adjustments that will need to happen. Understandable, but that's not really fair to the person who is burdened with maintaining that. I think you need to be as supportive as possible of what your DH wants to do about his career, and find a way as a couple to make that happen for him - just as you'd want him to support your career choices. Sit down together and go over the budget to figure out how things will look, and discuss your concerns with him. But at the end of the day, you really need to trust that he'll make the decision that's best for everyone. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of resentment between you two.

I also don't think you can expect him to handle it the same way you would if you were the one who had stayed in BigLaw. And like you said, you really DON'T know how you'd be feeling at this point in your career had you stayed, so that line of thinking is totally irrelevant.

If you are really concerned about the money, go back to a firm or get a higher paying job yourself.

OP here. Thank you for some actual advice. These are helpful suggestions. As I hope was clear in my post, I do want to support him and do want him to be less stressed and happier. I'm just trying to figure out how to re-jigger the way we save because I want to be prudent about college savings, retirement, etc. and admittedly it was a lot easier to do that with a sky-high HHI.

I'll ignore the other trolls.

This is demonstrably not true. Your initial post *was* clear - it just doesn't say what you now claim it says. In your OP, the questions you asked were "But what do you do when your breadwinner wants to cut your HHI by 60-70%? How do I navigate this with him?" Not "How do a revise our financial plan? how do we go about retirement savings with a reduced income?" You went on and on about how he was going back on the "bargain" and how, if your roles were reversed, *you* would have "toughed it out," and then asked how do you deal with *him*? Not your finances - him.

And now that your are getting pushback, people who are calling you out are trolls, and you just wanted to know what to cut from the budget. You are full of crap, OP. It's clear from your post that you are disgruntled about the potential changes to your lifestyle, and want him to continue in biglaw. All the pablum about "wanting to support him" was just you reciting how you *should* feel, rather than how you actually feel.

And for the record, how you actually feel is pretty damn selfish.

+1

FWIW I did not read your initial post as caring about your DH. It wasn't until later, after pushback, that you said that. Maybe you meant it, but it didn't come across.

[Anonymous]

What if he wants to see his kids as often as you do (shocker)? Why would you keep him from that when you can easily cut back to a 200k+ income? You think he’s being selfish but it’s the height of selfishness to keep him from his own family.

[Anonymous]

My DH and I were double biglaw. I moved to mid-law a couple years ago. I still make more than non-profit money but it's not biglaw money. In exchange, while my job is not stress-free, it is not biglaw and it definitely is not biglaw junior partner. First thing is to acknowledge that senior associate, even one on partnership track in theory, is not the same thing.

I encourage my DH, who is still in biglaw, to quit all the time. We save aggressively and hope to retire early, but I would happily cut way back on those goals if he would just get a different job that doesn't stress him out so much and affect his daily outlook and demeanor in a negative way.

We have three kids and our "bargain" if we have one is that in addition to my mid-law job, I am the primary parent. There is still no comparison.

I think you should try to appreciate that your life together is happening now. This isn't a temporary phase to just muddle through. If he wants to structure the life you guys have together in a different way, you guys need to figure out as a team how to make that happen. I agree with a PP that he should do his best to leverage the fact that he is a partner into a good next job and not quit precipitously, but any resentment over "his" decision to cut "your" HHI by 60-70% should be nipped in the bud asap. Especially when that HHI will still include six figures as a fed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your main concern is the drop in income and lifestyle adjustments that will need to happen. Understandable, but that's not really fair to the person who is burdened with maintaining that. I think you need to be as supportive as possible of what your DH wants to do about his career, and find a way as a couple to make that happen for him - just as you'd want him to support your career choices. Sit down together and go over the budget to figure out how things will look, and discuss your concerns with him. But at the end of the day, you really need to trust that he'll make the decision that's best for everyone. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of resentment between you two.

I also don't think you can expect him to handle it the same way you would if you were the one who had stayed in BigLaw. And like you said, you really DON'T know how you'd be feeling at this point in your career had you stayed, so that line of thinking is totally irrelevant.

If you are really concerned about the money, go back to a firm or get a higher paying job yourself.

OP here. Thank you for some actual advice. These are helpful suggestions. As I hope was clear in my post, I do want to support him and do want him to be less stressed and happier. I'm just trying to figure out how to re-jigger the way we save because I want to be prudent about college savings, retirement, etc. and admittedly it was a lot easier to do that with a sky-high HHI.

I'll ignore the other trolls.

This is demonstrably not true. Your initial post *was* clear - it just doesn't say what you now claim it says. In your OP, the questions you asked were "But what do you do when your breadwinner wants to cut your HHI by 60-70%? How do I navigate this with him?" Not "How do a revise our financial plan? how do we go about retirement savings with a reduced income?" You went on and on about how he was going back on the "bargain" and how, if your roles were reversed, *you* would have "toughed it out," and then asked how do you deal with *him*? Not your finances - him.

And now that your are getting pushback, people who are calling you out are trolls, and you just wanted to know what to cut from the budget. You are full of crap, OP. It's clear from your post that you are disgruntled about the potential changes to your lifestyle, and want him to continue in biglaw. All the pablum about "wanting to support him" was just you reciting how you *should* feel, rather than how you actually feel.

And for the record, how you actually feel is pretty damn selfish.

+1

FWIW I did not read your initial post as caring about your DH. It wasn't until later, after pushback, that you said that. Maybe you meant it, but it didn't come across.

+2. OP sounds awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your main concern is the drop in income and lifestyle adjustments that will need to happen. Understandable, but that's not really fair to the person who is burdened with maintaining that. I think you need to be as supportive as possible of what your DH wants to do about his career, and find a way as a couple to make that happen for him - just as you'd want him to support your career choices. Sit down together and go over the budget to figure out how things will look, and discuss your concerns with him. But at the end of the day, you really need to trust that he'll make the decision that's best for everyone. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of resentment between you two.

I also don't think you can expect him to handle it the same way you would if you were the one who had stayed in BigLaw. And like you said, you really DON'T know how you'd be feeling at this point in your career had you stayed, so that line of thinking is totally irrelevant.

If you are really concerned about the money, go back to a firm or get a higher paying job yourself.

OP here. Thank you for some actual advice. These are helpful suggestions. As I hope was clear in my post, I do want to support him and do want him to be less stressed and happier. I'm just trying to figure out how to re-jigger the way we save because I want to be prudent about college savings, retirement, etc. and admittedly it was a lot easier to do that with a sky-high HHI.

I'll ignore the other trolls.

Start your spending plan as if he had the Fed job and do this for at least six months to see if you can handle it. Figure out what you would save if he were to to Fed and set your budget accordingly. If you can handle it for 6 months, go for 6 more months. Then you will have a nice additional amount saved that can help bolster the retirement/college coffers. Are there any student loans? And could you handle the mortgage on the Fed job and your salary.

Can you also get a Fed job that pays more than your current job. Double Feds would have more I need come and more flexibility than you currently have-plus a pension and healthcare when you retire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few years ago, DH and I were both biglaw senior associates. Both well-regarded, both in partner-track positions. But after getting tired of never seeing one another, we decided that something had to give, and agreed that I'd transition to a nonprofit job -- not really law-related -- with a 9-5 schedule, located pretty close to our home in NoVa, and he'd keep working toward promotion. It wasn't a formal "deal" or "agreement," more just a joint decision that based on where we were at the time, it made sense and would free me up to be more supportive on the homefront. I feel like I would have been happy to continue working toward promotion and keep working in biglaw, even though that industry was and is extraordinarily stressful, so I admit that one additional benefit of this has been that I'm a lot less stressed and happier.

That's worked well so far. DH got promoted to partner, is well liked, has a bright future career-wise. But like I said, the industry is stressful and it's weighing on him. He works about 70 hours a week. He wants to leave, possibly for a fed job that would cut our HHI by maybe 2/3.

I desperately want DH to be less stressed and to be happy. For that reason I've taken on everything I possibly can at home and with the kid (one 3 year old and one on the way). And I know first-hand how hard biglaw can be on you. And we could get by on the reduced salary. We both came from nothing so a GS-15 and my nonprofit salaries combined are more than we dreamed of as kids. (Although our parents were raising us in very low COL areas.) And we've been saving a bunch, with the eventual goal of early retirement -- meanwhile enjoying the fact that one benefit of the partner salary is nice vacations and the ability to splurge on a nice dinner here and there. So we could be "ok" on the reduced salary.

Is it crazy of me, though, to feel a little upset that our bargain is falling apart? He would (rightly) counter that it was never a set-in-stone "deal" that he would work as a biglaw partner forever. But we knew that I was pretty much writing my law career off when I made my switch, and that I did it to make our home life better thinking that he would stay in biglaw. And there's a part of me that feels like I wouldn't be doing this to him if the roles were reversed. I'd be toughing it out and enjoying how much he did at home on a 9-5 schedule. But who really knows? That's very easy for me to say. Another part is that biglaw partner compensation is generally weighted toward the end of your career, so I feel like if he left we'd be throwing away the "investment" of the early career long hours and stress.

He's a wonderful man and a great dad, and I adore him for providing for us so far. But what do you do when your breadwinner wants to cut your HHI by 60-70%? How do I navigate this with him?

Poor guy.

[Anonymous]

OP, you're upset because you think your DH doesn't keep his end of the bargain. Actually, he did. He's made partner. Now he realized it's not all that (not worth it for his and the family's health and well-being). Life changes, and people adjust.

Hope you find a solution for your problem.

[Anonymous]

A reduction in HHI is never fun. I'm struggling now with a pay cut of $15K, so I can't imagine the $$$ you're talking about! But I would personally be happy my DH wants to work less and spend more time with family. If you can afford the pay cut, then make it work for his benefit, your benefit, and for the benefit of your kids!

My cousin's DH works in finance in NYC and rarely sees his family during the week. It's also very difficult for him to plan vacations, weekends, etc. because he never knows if he'll need to work. All the money he makes is not worth it in my mind. Their kids need their father around, their marriage needs him to be around, and the way he values his job is not healthy. Of course, that's all my opinion....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your main concern is the drop in income and lifestyle adjustments that will need to happen. Understandable, but that's not really fair to the person who is burdened with maintaining that. I think you need to be as supportive as possible of what your DH wants to do about his career, and find a way as a couple to make that happen for him - just as you'd want him to support your career choices. Sit down together and go over the budget to figure out how things will look, and discuss your concerns with him. But at the end of the day, you really need to trust that he'll make the decision that's best for everyone. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of resentment between you two.

I also don't think you can expect him to handle it the same way you would if you were the one who had stayed in BigLaw. And like you said, you really DON'T know how you'd be feeling at this point in your career had you stayed, so that line of thinking is totally irrelevant.

If you are really concerned about the money, go back to a firm or get a higher paying job yourself.

After being at a non profit serving some mission that no one cares about, I guarantee OP's not going to be able to do that.

that may not be true depending on OP's field. If she was a senior associate, she may very well be able to find something in smaller law, gov, or in-house -- all of which will probably pay a lot more than the nonprofit. (Many women get good jobs after taking a few years off; I doubt coming from a nonprofit would be harder.)

A two fed household or two people in-house can make a very good living. Not Biglaw partner good, but still a very nice life even in this high COLA area. DH's desire seems completely reasonable and it really makes sense for you to try to step up your salary since your income is no longer an afterthought.