Social issues at base school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re twisting the scenario. This isn’t a kid sitting in the cafeteria alone. This is a kid in the hallway. Im saying that a teen spending 4 seconds passing a kid in a hallway eating lunch will likely not have a clue something is amiss or will be headed into his own lunch quickly and not be thinking anything about it. Thee are too many reasons he could be there. That is THIS scenario that I am addressing. You’re talking about wonder, avoidance, eating alone in the cafeteria, switching scouting troops, etc. and then saying by passing a kid in the hallway it is mean spirited. Im saying I’m guessing most kids aren’t even thinking it’s an issue bc the kid could be there for so many alternative but fine reasons (waiting for a teacher, reading quietly, getting extra help, waiting to be picked up, has a headache, prefers quiet, needs to get work done during school hours bc if extra curricular and teacher offered outside his classroom, teacher is arriving every day 2 minutes later to open the classroom, etc). I was a teacher myself and this happened all the time with plenty of good reasons for it. That is wholly different from a kid eating alone in the cafeteria or having no one to buddy up with ever.

Obtuse, indeed.

OP's child is a girl and sits alone every day. It's not just a one-off. It's not mean-spirited to pass the child, but it is unfriendly to notice this every day and then never talk to this girl when you have spanish together later in the day. If this is happening every day, it's the same situation as a child sitting alone in the cafeteria. I don't really understand why they are letting kids sit outside the cafeteria anyway, but let's say they made this child sit inside the cafeteria to eat, what then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re twisting the scenario. This isn’t a kid sitting in the cafeteria alone. This is a kid in the hallway. Im saying that a teen spending 4 seconds passing a kid in a hallway eating lunch will likely not have a clue something is amiss or will be headed into his own lunch quickly and not be thinking anything about it. Thee are too many reasons he could be there. That is THIS scenario that I am addressing. You’re talking about wonder, avoidance, eating alone in the cafeteria, switching scouting troops, etc. and then saying by passing a kid in the hallway it is mean spirited. Im saying I’m guessing most kids aren’t even thinking it’s an issue bc the kid could be there for so many alternative but fine reasons (waiting for a teacher, reading quietly, getting extra help, waiting to be picked up, has a headache, prefers quiet, needs to get work done during school hours bc if extra curricular and teacher offered outside his classroom, teacher is arriving every day 2 minutes later to open the classroom, etc). I was a teacher myself and this happened all the time with plenty of good reasons for it. That is wholly different from a kid eating alone in the cafeteria or having no one to buddy up with ever.

Obtuse, indeed.

OP's child is a girl and sits alone every day. It's not just a one-off. It's not mean-spirited to pass the child, but it is unfriendly to notice this every day and then never talk to this girl when you have spanish together later in the day. If this is happening every day, it's the same situation as a child sitting alone in the cafeteria. I don't really understand why they are letting kids sit outside the cafeteria anyway, but let's say they made this child sit inside the cafeteria to eat, what then?

And...again making things up to catorgize people as mean. Kids in middle school often never have any classes with some kids. Stop assuming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re twisting the scenario. This isn’t a kid sitting in the cafeteria alone. This is a kid in the hallway. Im saying that a teen spending 4 seconds passing a kid in a hallway eating lunch will likely not have a clue something is amiss or will be headed into his own lunch quickly and not be thinking anything about it. Thee are too many reasons he could be there. That is THIS scenario that I am addressing. You’re talking about wonder, avoidance, eating alone in the cafeteria, switching scouting troops, etc. and then saying by passing a kid in the hallway it is mean spirited. Im saying I’m guessing most kids aren’t even thinking it’s an issue bc the kid could be there for so many alternative but fine reasons (waiting for a teacher, reading quietly, getting extra help, waiting to be picked up, has a headache, prefers quiet, needs to get work done during school hours bc if extra curricular and teacher offered outside his classroom, teacher is arriving every day 2 minutes later to open the classroom, etc). I was a teacher myself and this happened all the time with plenty of good reasons for it. That is wholly different from a kid eating alone in the cafeteria or having no one to buddy up with ever.

Obtuse, indeed.

OP's child is a girl and sits alone every day. It's not just a one-off. It's not mean-spirited to pass the child, but it is unfriendly to notice this every day and then never talk to this girl when you have spanish together later in the day. If this is happening every day, it's the same situation as a child sitting alone in the cafeteria. I don't really understand why they are letting kids sit outside the cafeteria anyway, but let's say they made this child sit inside the cafeteria to eat, what then?

And...again making things up to catorgize people as mean. Kids in middle school often never have any classes with some kids. Stop assuming.

Good lord. Someone does. Each kid has seven periods with over 20 kids per class. And in those classes is someone that could use a friendly gesture. I guarantee that every child in any school runs into an opportunity to help another child. Why are you making this so personal? Is someone accusing your daughter of ignoring OP? Are you at the same school?

[Anonymous]

You've got an axe to grind, looking for behavior you can categorize as mean. I won't further engage..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've got an axe to grind, looking for behavior you can categorize as mean. I won't further engage..

The behavior isn't mean. It isn't kind. It's indifference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've got an axe to grind, looking for behavior you can categorize as mean. I won't further engage..

The behavior isn't mean. It isn't kind. It's indifference.

indifference is purposeful. And there you go again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've got an axe to grind, looking for behavior you can categorize as mean. I won't further engage..

The behavior isn't mean. It isn't kind. It's indifference.

indifference is purposeful. And there you go again.

Purposeful for the person with the other priorities yes. Not purposeful for the child who has no friends whom we are supposed to be talking about helping. You seem to have no suggestions for OP so I'm not sure why you are even responding. Maybe you could be helpful by explaining what would make your indifferent child care more since a lone child at lunch still leaves your child indifferent? What would make your daughter care enough to help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've got an axe to grind, looking for behavior you can categorize as mean. I won't further engage..

The behavior isn't mean. It isn't kind. It's indifference.

indifference is purposeful. And there you go again.

Purposeful for the person with the other priorities yes. Not purposeful for the child who has no friends whom we are supposed to be talking about helping. You seem to have no suggestions for OP so I'm not sure why you are even responding. Maybe you could be helpful by explaining what would make your indifferent child care more since a lone child at lunch still leaves your child indifferent? What would make your daughter care enough to help?

First, I think most can agree that inaction is an action. But these are lessons that adults struggle with and can't engage appropriately in today's world. How many adults take time to interact with an awkward work peer or mom at an event where the mother is obviously the outsider?

Again, while I agree that inaction is actually doing something, I think it is a lot to ask even the very, very mature and self assured 8th grader to act in this manner. I think sometimes we like to believe that our children are more mature than they are and that they have more social awareness than they do, often forgetting that sometimes they are simple trying to keep afloat and that reaching out to help someone else might mean that they sink as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've got an axe to grind, looking for behavior you can categorize as mean. I won't further engage..

The behavior isn't mean. It isn't kind. It's indifference.

indifference is purposeful. And there you go again.

Purposeful for the person with the other priorities yes. Not purposeful for the child who has no friends whom we are supposed to be talking about helping. You seem to have no suggestions for OP so I'm not sure why you are even responding. Maybe you could be helpful by explaining what would make your indifferent child care more since a lone child at lunch still leaves your child indifferent? What would make your daughter care enough to help?

First, I think most can agree that inaction is an action. But these are lessons that adults struggle with and can't engage appropriately in today's world. How many adults take time to interact with an awkward work peer or mom at an event where the mother is obviously the outsider?

Again, while I agree that inaction is actually doing something, I think it is a lot to ask even the very, very mature and self assured 8th grader to act in this manner. I think sometimes we like to believe that our children are more mature than they are and that they have more social awareness than they do, often forgetting that sometimes they are simple trying to keep afloat and that reaching out to help someone else might mean that they sink as well.

So basically in your world kids are capable of bullying but not of being empathetic and helping? Only a very mature and self assured 8th grader can act like those kids in Wonder who befriended Auggie? Funny how that was a middle school and yet 2 kids came over to him that didn't seem super mature. But that would never happen in your world. Kids in your world have other work to do that keeps them from helping others, right? Since adults can be jerks we also can't expect our 8th graders to act empathetic? Did I get all that right?

[Anonymous]

Lady, you seriously need help. Get off the wonder analogies and stop trying to label and find fault with othe kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lady, you seriously need help. Get off the wonder analogies and stop trying to label and find fault with othe kids.

Why? It's a popular movie. Teenage depression is also a serious current issue. Why not discuss it in light of this comment? It's a similar scenario. Auggie had to eat lunch by himself till two kids had the courage to come over to him and befriended him. Plenty of kids noticed him earlier but were indifferent for months.

I asked the mom what she would do instead for OP's child. What might make her child notice someone who needs a friend and what might make her DD actually act verses being indifferent. She hasn't answered with any suggestions.

First she said her child wouldn't notice someone sitting alone. Then she or another PP said that even if they did notice someone sitting alone and needing a friend, it was too much to ask a 12 or 13 year old to be anything more than indifferent because children are immature, kids are busy, and some adults are also indifferent. Wonder is a very good analogy for discussing social interactions in middle school with kids who don't have a lot of friends and eat alone. OP could write more about her child to get specifics on her particular situation that might better help, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Wonder is still a good analogy for this situation.

Do you agree with PP that 12 and 13 year olds can babysit, be counselors in training, spend hours on social media, get pregnant, and loads of other things, but can't have enough empathy at 13 to strike up a conversation with someone they know needs a friend because they are too busy with other things? That makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lady, you seriously need help. Get off the wonder analogies and stop trying to label and find fault with othe kids.

+1. Someone forgot her meds. Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady, you seriously need help. Get off the wonder analogies and stop trying to label and find fault with othe kids.

Why? It's a popular movie. Teenage depression is also a serious current issue. Why not discuss it in light of this comment? It's a similar scenario. Auggie had to eat lunch by himself till two kids had the courage to come over to him and befriended him. Plenty of kids noticed him earlier but were indifferent for months.

I asked the mom what she would do instead for OP's child. What might make her child notice someone who needs a friend and what might make her DD actually act verses being indifferent. She hasn't answered with any suggestions.

First she said her child wouldn't notice someone sitting alone. Then she or another PP said that even if they did notice someone sitting alone and needing a friend, it was too much to ask a 12 or 13 year old to be anything more than indifferent because children are immature, kids are busy, and some adults are also indifferent. Wonder is a very good analogy for discussing social interactions in middle school with kids who don't have a lot of friends and eat alone. OP could write more about her child to get specifics on her particular situation that might better help, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Wonder is still a good analogy for this situation.

Do you agree with PP that 12 and 13 year olds can babysit, be counselors in training, spend hours on social media, get pregnant, and loads of other things, but can't have enough empathy at 13 to strike up a conversation with someone they know needs a friend because they are too busy with other things? That makes no sense.

It is a movie/book. Good lord. Most middle school children are working through or in the early stage of identity formation. Counselors in training??? Do you mean for camp? Most 12 and 13 year olds are good with younger guys. Peers are harder, and you are assuming that OP s daughter engages with peers. One of the most eye opening experiences as a parent can be to watch your child interact with different people when they don't know you're there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady, you seriously need help. Get off the wonder analogies and stop trying to label and find fault with othe kids.

Why? It's a popular movie. Teenage depression is also a serious current issue. Why not discuss it in light of this comment? It's a similar scenario. Auggie had to eat lunch by himself till two kids had the courage to come over to him and befriended him. Plenty of kids noticed him earlier but were indifferent for months.

I asked the mom what she would do instead for OP's child. What might make her child notice someone who needs a friend and what might make her DD actually act verses being indifferent. She hasn't answered with any suggestions.

First she said her child wouldn't notice someone sitting alone. Then she or another PP said that even if they did notice someone sitting alone and needing a friend, it was too much to ask a 12 or 13 year old to be anything more than indifferent because children are immature, kids are busy, and some adults are also indifferent. Wonder is a very good analogy for discussing social interactions in middle school with kids who don't have a lot of friends and eat alone. OP could write more about her child to get specifics on her particular situation that might better help, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Wonder is still a good analogy for this situation.

Do you agree with PP that 12 and 13 year olds can babysit, be counselors in training, spend hours on social media, get pregnant, and loads of other things, but can't have enough empathy at 13 to strike up a conversation with someone they know needs a friend because they are too busy with other things? That makes no sense.

It is a movie/book. Good lord. Most middle school children are working through or in the early stage of identity formation. Counselors in training??? Do you mean for camp? Most 12 and 13 year olds are good with younger guys. Peers are harder, and you are assuming that OP s daughter engages with peers. One of the most eye opening experiences as a parent can be to watch your child interact with different people when they don't know you're there.

Yes. Summer camp. On this quote "you are assuming OP's daughter engages with peers" She's at a middle school. Of course she is with peers. I don't understand what your last sentence has to do with OP's daughter or Wonder so I can't even comment on that line. I can only agree that we don't know what we don't know but I haven't been surprised by watching my child interact with different people over the years. I know their strengths and weaknesses and am not surprised by their interactions. I've seen them be thoughtless at times, but over the years they've grown in that area. That's all I can say on that. On these lines though "Most middle school children are working through or in the early stage of identity formation" and "peers are harder" I do have a comment. My kids were taught empathy starting in preschool and from that age through middle school they have always had the courage and understanding to be nice to others even their self identity doesn't match up exactly, they are busy, or they don't see something to gain themselves from the experience. I can't say they've done this for every person they've encountered since I'm not with them all the time and they are children after all and as I mentioned above they have been thoughtless at times, but each year they surprise me with their thoughtfulness in several ways and I have countless examples where they have been inclusive and helpful to people beyond their good friends and family. They've never been too young to exhibit or work on these skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady, you seriously need help. Get off the wonder analogies and stop trying to label and find fault with othe kids.

+1. Someone forgot her meds. Sheesh.

This is a bullying tactic.