How harmful has the MGTOW coaching been to young people?

[Anonymous]

I feel like "Men can do pretty well in their 40's" is good advice for those who are getting discouraged by dating in their 20's and 30's, or who are trying to decide whether to end an unhappy marriage. If you're an average-looking, average-height, average-built guy, it might be easier to find a good woman in your 40's because that's the age where there are lots of divorces and perpetually-single women, and they might be able to overlook more than they would at 20. 20-something women can be shallow when deciding who to date. They might instead think, "this guy is nice, he's employed, he's educated, I should give him a chance."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like "Men can do pretty well in their 40's" is good advice for those who are getting discouraged by dating in their 20's and 30's, or who are trying to decide whether to end an unhappy marriage. If you're an average-looking, average-height, average-built guy, it might be easier to find a good woman in your 40's because that's the age where there are lots of divorces and perpetually-single women, and they might be able to overlook more than they would at 20. 20-something women can be shallow when deciding who to date. They might instead think, "this guy is nice, he's employed, he's educated, I should give him a chance."

I kind of feel like that's a cop-out. For the guys who are having trouble finding women at 20, the problem isn't that women are superficial, the problem is that they are angling for women who are out of their league socially and looks-wise (and of course getting rejected).

I guarantee you that for every nerdy, socially awkward 20-something guy who has trouble dating the prettiest girls in the room, there are two nerdy, socially awkward 20-something girls who have never been asked out in their lives. If unpopular guys went after unpopular girls, they would be happily coupled, but unpopular guys (like everyone else) are going after the girls who are at the top of the social and aesthetic ladder. There's a lot of competition for those. Set your sights on your realistic target, and you won't have any shortage of dates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The common factor is that for whatever reason, someone keeps picking the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I certainly did in my 20s- I passed on many wonderful men who would have been great husbands and fathers because of my own deep-seated issues such as codependency. I have male friends who do the same, often choosing women based on looks, unavailability, emotional problems, etc. And also, emotionally healthy people will pass on you if they sense you have issues (as many men have done to me).

From a guy's perspective, when women spend their 20s passing up good guys in favor of assholes, it looks like they prefer assholes when they're pretty, interested in sex, and have their pick of the litter. Even if they start avoiding the assholes in their 30s, it looks like that's because they're only settling because they are running out of options and are looking for a more asexual kind of stability in their relationships rather than the kind of assholes that really get their motor running.

No, you're confused. Women like what you perceive as assholes but not because they are assholes. No one is excited about meeting or being with an asshole. Women are going for them because they have SOME attractive qualities. Like they are spontaneous, in touch with their emotions. unafraid to take charge of the evening, unafraid to speak up, have high self-esteem and don't put up with crap, or whatever. If a good guy had these same qualities on top of his good character, he'd have no trouble finding women.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that in your 20s, there were tons of unpopular, not-as-good-looking girls who would have loved your attention. But you, as many other men, probably only wanted to go for the top of the litter.

[Anonymous]

They might instead think, "this guy is nice, he's employed, he's educated, I should give him a chance."

To be more dazzling than any previous man she's known, unencumberer by alimony or kids, with enough money in the bank to take her around the world. Also tall with all his hair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The common factor is that for whatever reason, someone keeps picking the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I certainly did in my 20s- I passed on many wonderful men who would have been great husbands and fathers because of my own deep-seated issues such as codependency. I have male friends who do the same, often choosing women based on looks, unavailability, emotional problems, etc. And also, emotionally healthy people will pass on you if they sense you have issues (as many men have done to me).

From a guy's perspective, when women spend their 20s passing up good guys in favor of assholes, it looks like they prefer assholes when they're pretty, interested in sex, and have their pick of the litter. Even if they start avoiding the assholes in their 30s, it looks like that's because they're only settling because they are running out of options and are looking for a more asexual kind of stability in their relationships rather than the kind of assholes that really get their motor running.

No, you're confused. Women like what you perceive as assholes but not because they are assholes. No one is excited about meeting or being with an asshole. Women are going for them because they have SOME attractive qualities. Like they are spontaneous, in touch with their emotions. unafraid to take charge of the evening, unafraid to speak up, have high self-esteem and don't put up with crap, or whatever. If a good guy had these same qualities on top of his good character, he'd have no trouble finding women.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that in your 20s, there were tons of unpopular, not-as-good-looking girls who would have loved your attention. But you, as many other men, probably only wanted to go for the top of the litter.

In my 20s I was poor (grad student), tall, thin, awkward, low self-esteem. I could only rarely get top-tier women so I ended up with nerdier, chubby (or fat) women, minority women, and women who were weird or not very successful themselves. I ended up marrying one of these.

Now 30 years later I am divorced, and can easily date attractive women in their 20s-40s, who are thin, educated, and have good jobs. It's amazing. I should have skipped marriage. I peaked somewhere around age 45. I have a few male friends with similar experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: the problem isn't that women are superficial, the problem is that they are angling for women who are out of their league socially and looks-wise (and of course getting rejected).

You have to be female. Do you not see the contradiction in your own words? You’re validating MGOTW central theme without even realizing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: the problem isn't that women are superficial, the problem is that they are angling for women who are out of their league socially and looks-wise (and of course getting rejected).

You have to be female. Do you not see the contradiction in your own words? You’re validating MGOTW central theme without even realizing it.

The MGOTW theme is that women are obligated to date men they aren't atteacted to? Good to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The common factor is that for whatever reason, someone keeps picking the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I certainly did in my 20s- I passed on many wonderful men who would have been great husbands and fathers because of my own deep-seated issues such as codependency. I have male friends who do the same, often choosing women based on looks, unavailability, emotional problems, etc. And also, emotionally healthy people will pass on you if they sense you have issues (as many men have done to me).

From a guy's perspective, when women spend their 20s passing up good guys in favor of assholes, it looks like they prefer assholes when they're pretty, interested in sex, and have their pick of the litter. Even if they start avoiding the assholes in their 30s, it looks like that's because they're only settling because they are running out of options and are looking for a more asexual kind of stability in their relationships rather than the kind of assholes that really get their motor running.

No, you're confused. Women like what you perceive as assholes but not because they are assholes. No one is excited about meeting or being with an asshole. Women are going for them because they have SOME attractive qualities. Like they are spontaneous, in touch with their emotions. unafraid to take charge of the evening, unafraid to speak up, have high self-esteem and don't put up with crap, or whatever. If a good guy had these same qualities on top of his good character, he'd have no trouble finding women.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that in your 20s, there were tons of unpopular, not-as-good-looking girls who would have loved your attention. But you, as many other men, probably only wanted to go for the top of the litter.

In my 20s I was poor (grad student), tall, thin, awkward, low self-esteem. I could only rarely get top-tier women so I ended up with nerdier, chubby (or fat) women, minority women, and women who were weird or not very successful themselves. I ended up marrying one of these.

Now 30 years later I am divorced, and can easily date attractive women in their 20s-40s, who are thin, educated, and have good jobs. It's amazing. I should have skipped marriage. I peaked somewhere around age 45. I have a few male friends with similar experiences.

Oh, you "ended up" with minority women? You sound like a prince!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: younger women shouldn't believe that their Sexual Market Value peaks at the age of 22.

Except, it does.

Is there a corresponding study reflecting the most attractive age of men in women's eyes?

Pretty sure it would hover around 25. Because, duh.

Afraid not sweetie:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The common factor is that for whatever reason, someone keeps picking the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I certainly did in my 20s- I passed on many wonderful men who would have been great husbands and fathers because of my own deep-seated issues such as codependency. I have male friends who do the same, often choosing women based on looks, unavailability, emotional problems, etc. And also, emotionally healthy people will pass on you if they sense you have issues (as many men have done to me).

From a guy's perspective, when women spend their 20s passing up good guys in favor of assholes, it looks like they prefer assholes when they're pretty, interested in sex, and have their pick of the litter. Even if they start avoiding the assholes in their 30s, it looks like that's because they're only settling because they are running out of options and are looking for a more asexual kind of stability in their relationships rather than the kind of assholes that really get their motor running.

No, you're confused. Women like what you perceive as assholes but not because they are assholes. No one is excited about meeting or being with an asshole. Women are going for them because they have SOME attractive qualities. Like they are spontaneous, in touch with their emotions. unafraid to take charge of the evening, unafraid to speak up, have high self-esteem and don't put up with crap, or whatever. If a good guy had these same qualities on top of his good character, he'd have no trouble finding women.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that in your 20s, there were tons of unpopular, not-as-good-looking girls who would have loved your attention. But you, as many other men, probably only wanted to go for the top of the litter.

In my 20s I was poor (grad student), tall, thin, awkward, low self-esteem. I could only rarely get top-tier women so I ended up with nerdier, chubby (or fat) women, minority women, and women who were weird or not very successful themselves. I ended up marrying one of these.

Now 30 years later I am divorced, and can easily date attractive women in their 20s-40s, who are thin, educated, and have good jobs. It's amazing. I should have skipped marriage. I peaked somewhere around age 45. I have a few male friends with similar experiences.

Oh, you "ended up" with minority women? You sound like a prince!

If he's dating hotties later in life he's apparently doing something right, but he does sound like a tool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The common factor is that for whatever reason, someone keeps picking the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I certainly did in my 20s- I passed on many wonderful men who would have been great husbands and fathers because of my own deep-seated issues such as codependency. I have male friends who do the same, often choosing women based on looks, unavailability, emotional problems, etc. And also, emotionally healthy people will pass on you if they sense you have issues (as many men have done to me).

From a guy's perspective, when women spend their 20s passing up good guys in favor of assholes, it looks like they prefer assholes when they're pretty, interested in sex, and have their pick of the litter. Even if they start avoiding the assholes in their 30s, it looks like that's because they're only settling because they are running out of options and are looking for a more asexual kind of stability in their relationships rather than the kind of assholes that really get their motor running.

No, you're confused. Women like what you perceive as assholes but not because they are assholes. No one is excited about meeting or being with an asshole. Women are going for them because they have SOME attractive qualities. Like they are spontaneous, in touch with their emotions. unafraid to take charge of the evening, unafraid to speak up, have high self-esteem and don't put up with crap, or whatever. If a good guy had these same qualities on top of his good character, he'd have no trouble finding women.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that in your 20s, there were tons of unpopular, not-as-good-looking girls who would have loved your attention. But you, as many other men, probably only wanted to go for the top of the litter.

In my 20s I was poor (grad student), tall, thin, awkward, low self-esteem. I could only rarely get top-tier women so I ended up with nerdier, chubby (or fat) women, minority women, and women who were weird or not very successful themselves. I ended up marrying one of these.

Now 30 years later I am divorced, and can easily date attractive women in their 20s-40s, who are thin, educated, and have good jobs. It's amazing. I should have skipped marriage. I peaked somewhere around age 45. I have a few male friends with similar experiences.

Those thin, hot, educated women in their 20s-40s would never even glance your way again if you were to become poor once more. No one is randomly hot for a 50-something dude, cause no matter how well-preserved you are, gravity and age catch up with us all. I'm sure you know this, though you probably don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The common factor is that for whatever reason, someone keeps picking the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I certainly did in my 20s- I passed on many wonderful men who would have been great husbands and fathers because of my own deep-seated issues such as codependency. I have male friends who do the same, often choosing women based on looks, unavailability, emotional problems, etc. And also, emotionally healthy people will pass on you if they sense you have issues (as many men have done to me).

From a guy's perspective, when women spend their 20s passing up good guys in favor of assholes, it looks like they prefer assholes when they're pretty, interested in sex, and have their pick of the litter. Even if they start avoiding the assholes in their 30s, it looks like that's because they're only settling because they are running out of options and are looking for a more asexual kind of stability in their relationships rather than the kind of assholes that really get their motor running.

No, you're confused. Women like what you perceive as assholes but not because they are assholes. No one is excited about meeting or being with an asshole. Women are going for them because they have SOME attractive qualities. Like they are spontaneous, in touch with their emotions. unafraid to take charge of the evening, unafraid to speak up, have high self-esteem and don't put up with crap, or whatever. If a good guy had these same qualities on top of his good character, he'd have no trouble finding women.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that in your 20s, there were tons of unpopular, not-as-good-looking girls who would have loved your attention. But you, as many other men, probably only wanted to go for the top of the litter.

In my 20s I was poor (grad student), tall, thin, awkward, low self-esteem. I could only rarely get top-tier women so I ended up with nerdier, chubby (or fat) women, minority women, and women who were weird or not very successful themselves. I ended up marrying one of these.

Now 30 years later I am divorced, and can easily date attractive women in their 20s-40s, who are thin, educated, and have good jobs. It's amazing. I should have skipped marriage. I peaked somewhere around age 45. I have a few male friends with similar experiences.

Oh, you "ended up" with minority women? You sound like a prince!

If he's dating hotties later in life he's apparently doing something right, but he does sound like a tool.

He probably gets a single Match date with "hotties" through carefully curated photos that conceal his age, and then sleeps with the ones whose insecurities he can exploit/ply with liquor. But they never call back because he's a crap lay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The common factor is that for whatever reason, someone keeps picking the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I certainly did in my 20s- I passed on many wonderful men who would have been great husbands and fathers because of my own deep-seated issues such as codependency. I have male friends who do the same, often choosing women based on looks, unavailability, emotional problems, etc. And also, emotionally healthy people will pass on you if they sense you have issues (as many men have done to me).

From a guy's perspective, when women spend their 20s passing up good guys in favor of assholes, it looks like they prefer assholes when they're pretty, interested in sex, and have their pick of the litter. Even if they start avoiding the assholes in their 30s, it looks like that's because they're only settling because they are running out of options and are looking for a more asexual kind of stability in their relationships rather than the kind of assholes that really get their motor running.

No, you're confused. Women like what you perceive as assholes but not because they are assholes. No one is excited about meeting or being with an asshole. Women are going for them because they have SOME attractive qualities. Like they are spontaneous, in touch with their emotions. unafraid to take charge of the evening, unafraid to speak up, have high self-esteem and don't put up with crap, or whatever. If a good guy had these same qualities on top of his good character, he'd have no trouble finding women.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that in your 20s, there were tons of unpopular, not-as-good-looking girls who would have loved your attention. But you, as many other men, probably only wanted to go for the top of the litter.

In my 20s I was poor (grad student), tall, thin, awkward, low self-esteem. I could only rarely get top-tier women so I ended up with nerdier, chubby (or fat) women, minority women, and women who were weird or not very successful themselves. I ended up marrying one of these.

Now 30 years later I am divorced, and can easily date attractive women in their 20s-40s, who are thin, educated, and have good jobs. It's amazing. I should have skipped marriage. I peaked somewhere around age 45. I have a few male friends with similar experiences.

Those thin, hot, educated women in their 20s-40s would never even glance your way again if you were to become poor once more. No one is randomly hot for a 50-something dude, cause no matter how well-preserved you are, gravity and age catch up with us all. I'm sure you know this, though you probably don't care.

Right? i'm sure if he were the best-looking cashier at McDonald's, he'd have just as many dates. riiight.

[Anonymous]

What would a thin, hot, educated woman in her twenties want with a guy in his 50s, no matter how hot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: the problem isn't that women are superficial, the problem is that they are angling for women who are out of their league socially and looks-wise (and of course getting rejected).

You have to be female. Do you not see the contradiction in your own words? You’re validating MGOTW central theme without even realizing it.

Where is a contradiction? What does being female have to do with this? Leagues work for both genders. No rich hot men in their 30s are coming for me - why would they?

Assess your league accurately, date within it, and you will be fine. Man or woman.