Has anyone's marriage successfully overcome domestic violence?

[Anonymous]

It depends on why it happened in the first place- anyone with a set of other emotional issues where the lashing out is just a symptom - no. A one time anger issue- maybe, it depends on whether you feel you can trust your spouse going forward.

My DH was unfaithful once—-i would find it harder to overcome a domestic violemce incident and that’s saying a lot.

[Anonymous]

It also depends on what is involved and the social context. Remember all those old movies where the woman slaps the cheating cad? (Or throws her wine in his face?). Doesn’t make her an “abuser.” Similarly, the occasionally frustrated shaking of someone’s shoulder etc. doesn’t make someone an abuser. Abuse is not occasional minor physically expressions of frustration—in many cultures that is normal for both men and women. Abuse is when there is either a severe incident that inflicts or could inflict serious physical harm or repeated incidents (even if non-physical) involving behavior that causes a reasonable person to feel fearful or threatened with serious harm.

This is not to excuse even the more “minor” stuff but just to say that I think the more minor stuff can be relatively easily overcome, whereas serious or repeated physical brutality and threats is a lot tougher.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know. My DH was abusive. More emotionally than physically: lots of yelling, cursing, insulting, slamming doors, threatening to leave, plus occasionally blocking,looming, and grabbing (my arm, my phone). He’s also military and he DEFINITELY has anger issues that go way beyonfpd our marriage: gets into fist fights with people, etc.

I finally got him to go into therapy and on meds (bipolar). It took an ultimatum: therapy or the marriage is over. It made a huge difference. After a year, he is now much less volatile and angry. In many ways s very different man.

But the jury is still out.... check back in a decade!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It also depends on what is involved and the social context.

Remember all those old movies where the woman slaps the cheating cad? (Or throws her wine in his face?). Doesn’t make her an “abuser.”

Similarly, the occasionally frustrated shaking of someone’s shoulder etc. doesn’t make someone an abuser.

Abuse is not occasional minor physically expressions of frustration—in many cultures that is normal for both men and women.

Abuse is when there is either a severe incident that inflicts or could inflict serious physical harm or repeated incidents (even if non-physical) involving behavior that causes a reasonable person to feel fearful or threatened with serious harm.

This is not to excuse even the more “minor” stuff but just to say that I think the more minor stuff can be relatively easily overcome, whereas serious or repeated physical brutality and threats is a lot tougher.

I get with where you were trying to go with this, but I think that is the point and major cause for concern.
There are a lot of conditions thrown in there that make this definition a bit restrictive towards the facts of how abuse works.
Unfortunately, there are often areas of gray before you get to a clear black and white of the more recognizable forms of abusive behavior - whether physical, emotional, financial, sexual, mental.

The examples you gave are all varying degrees of abuse: inappropriate use of power and control to hurt or injure by mistreatment.

Even if an abusive behavior seems "minor", t is an invasive weed that can rapidly grow and destroy everything around it. Most DV doesn't begin with a punch to the face. It begins with a milder form of the "gray" - that is still abusive.

Individual/societal tolerance of abuse at different places along the spectrum do not change the definition of what abuse actually is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know. My DH was abusive. More emotionally than physically: lots of yelling, cursing, insulting, slamming doors, threatening to leave, plus occasionally blocking,looming, and grabbing (my arm, my phone). He’s also military and he DEFINITELY has anger issues that go way beyonfpd our marriage: gets into fist fights with people, etc.

I finally got him to go into therapy and on meds (bipolar). It took an ultimatum: therapy or the marriage is over. It made a huge difference. After a year, he is now much less volatile and angry. In many ways s very different man.

But the jury is still out.... check back in a decade!

I wish all the best for you PP. But, I spent 16 years in a marriage that sounds very much like yours. Although my exH never took it outside our home. The abuse ebbed and flowed, with me "getting my H into therapy" or getting us into therapy, or trying to fix me, or trying to fix us. You get the picture. Things would be better for a while, a few weeks, months, a year. But then it would start back up. And always, always, I tried to fix it. Because he had me convinced by that point that it was my fault, and I was convinced that I was broken.

I finally got the courage to leave after an incident when he grabbed me and started cursing at me in front of our tween kids. I realized that I never wanted them to marry an abuser, or be an abuser. Three years out and I'm still coming to grips with the fact that I put up with his abuse for so long. To this day, many people don't believe that my ex could ever be an abuser. he's so nice, smart, well educated, successful, etc. So I'm very careful how I share my story.

[Anonymous]

Best case for success is a long sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It also depends on what is involved and the social context.

Remember all those old movies where the woman slaps the cheating cad? (Or throws her wine in his face?). Doesn’t make her an “abuser.”

Similarly, the occasionally frustrated shaking of someone’s shoulder etc. doesn’t make someone an abuser.

Abuse is not occasional minor physically expressions of frustration—in many cultures that is normal for both men and women.

Abuse is when there is either a severe incident that inflicts or could inflict serious physical harm or repeated incidents (even if non-physical) involving behavior that causes a reasonable person to feel fearful or threatened with serious harm.

This is not to excuse even the more “minor” stuff but just to say that I think the more minor stuff can be relatively easily overcome, whereas serious or repeated physical brutality and threats is a lot tougher.

I get with where you were trying to go with this, but I think that is the point and major cause for concern.
There are a lot of conditions thrown in there that make this definition a bit restrictive towards the facts of how abuse works.
Unfortunately, there are often areas of gray before you get to a clear black and white of the more recognizable forms of abusive behavior - whether physical, emotional, financial, sexual, mental.

The examples you gave are all varying degrees of abuse: inappropriate use of power and control to hurt or injure by mistreatment.

Even if an abusive behavior seems "minor", t is an invasive weed that can rapidly grow and destroy everything around it. Most DV doesn't begin with a punch to the face. It begins with a milder form of the "gray" - that is still abusive.

Individual/societal tolerance of abuse at different places along the spectrum do not change the definition of what abuse actually is.

Ummm, no. Every time someone yells or throws their arms in their air or pushes someone aside when they are leaving a room in a huff or "looms" over someone is not on the same spectrum with beating someone or choking them. It's dangerous to say they are since at that point people are going to lose their ability to identify true abusers.

Domestic abuse is a serious problem, but then there are also a bunch of people who want to identify every relationship problem as some form of domestic abuse.

[Anonymous]

Many times, the older the abuser gets, the less physically abusive he becomes.

But that could make his mental/verbal abuse worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It also depends on what is involved and the social context.

Remember all those old movies where the woman slaps the cheating cad? (Or throws her wine in his face?). Doesn’t make her an “abuser.”

Similarly, the occasionally frustrated shaking of someone’s shoulder etc. doesn’t make someone an abuser.

Abuse is not occasional minor physically expressions of frustration—in many cultures that is normal for both men and women.

Abuse is when there is either a severe incident that inflicts or could inflict serious physical harm or repeated incidents (even if non-physical) involving behavior that causes a reasonable person to feel fearful or threatened with serious harm.

This is not to excuse even the more “minor” stuff but just to say that I think the more minor stuff can be relatively easily overcome, whereas serious or repeated physical brutality and threats is a lot tougher.

I get with where you were trying to go with this, but I think that is the point and major cause for concern.
There are a lot of conditions thrown in there that make this definition a bit restrictive towards the facts of how abuse works.
Unfortunately, there are often areas of gray before you get to a clear black and white of the more recognizable forms of abusive behavior - whether physical, emotional, financial, sexual, mental.

The examples you gave are all varying degrees of abuse: inappropriate use of power and control to hurt or injure by mistreatment.

Even if an abusive behavior seems "minor", t is an invasive weed that can rapidly grow and destroy everything around it. Most DV doesn't begin with a punch to the face. It begins with a milder form of the "gray" - that is still abusive.

Individual/societal tolerance of abuse at different places along the spectrum do not change the definition of what abuse actually is.

Ummm, no. Every time someone yells or throws their arms in their air or pushes someone aside when they are leaving a room in a huff or "looms" over someone is not on the same spectrum with beating someone or choking them. It's dangerous to say they are since at that point people are going to lose their ability to identify true abusers.

Domestic abuse is a serious problem, but then there are also a bunch of people who want to identify every relationship problem as some form of domestic abuse.

You just gave very different examples of what the original PP posted. Throwing hands, yelling, leaving in a huff - yes, normal expressions of frustration. Not abuse. Not putting your hands on another person and shaking their shoulders. A co-worker could do all of the things you exampled, but if they behaved in the way the PP illustrated because of "cultural differences", it would warrant a lawsuit or assault charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous prosecutor poster coming back to comment on the last two posts. As much as I appreciate their perspectives, I get frustrated when people chalk up DV to "anger issues." DV is about so much more than anger problems. If it were only about his anger, he'd also hit his children, parents, boss, server at a restaurant, other drivers on the road etc. etc. when they made him angry too. There's an additional pathology with domestic abusers that's less fixable than someone who just has problems controlling their anger.

This. Many abusers control their anger just fine--they hold it in until they get home, and then they take it out on the person they have the most power over, the person who is dependent on them or tied to them in some way, the person they can hit or humiliate in private. It's anger + the need to dominate and control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a DV survivor and a prosecutor who routinely handles DV cases. The "party line" in the criminal justice system is "once an abuser, always an abuser." I think the reality is slightly more nuanced. I strongly believe that it's possible to have a single, minor, isolated DV incident that's truly anomalous. By "minor," I mean something like a push or grabbing an arm roughly. That said, if you've experienced multiple incidents, or any one incident was serious (it left real bruising, a weapon was used or threatened, the assault involved strangulation or grabbing at your throat, any comment/threat about ending your life), I don't think you can overcome that. I've lived through it in my personal life and it will just get increasingly serious and frequent. And regardless of how much he tries, you'll never be able to look at your partner and not see the guy who hit you because you did [insert stupid BS that upset him here].

One more thing...people on DCUM are quick to recommend anger management and therapy for perpetrators of DV. There is no evidence that this type of treatment works. There are real, certified DV treatment programs. They're often called Abuser/Batterer Intervention Programs. They're not perfect, but they're certainly more effective than individual therapy and anger management programs.

+1 excellent post. thank you.

+2
I used to prosecute DV cases, too, and things like punching, choking, biting (I had a bunch of cases that involved biting, which was just really strange to me), using or brandishing a weapon, pulling hair out of her head, stalking, or making specific threats to kill, or assaulting the victim in front of children--those cases are relationships that are never coming back. Those aren't "we got into a heated argument and I just lost my temper." Those are the acts of an abuser who feels entitled to control his (usually his, but sometimes her) partner. And it doesn't stop unless the victim decides to leave and then manages to successfully escape.

[Anonymous]

Overall, there has been more emotional abuse in my marriage than physical abuse. Moreover, the physical abuse was relatively minor- pushing me away, getting in my face while yelling, pushing up his sleeves while backing me into a corner, etc. I agree that getting better isn't just about the abuser controlling their anger, because my DH has a very mild temper towards our children and strangers (i.e., he would never even give another driver the finger). In my opinion, it's the emotional abuse and manipulation that are the hallmark of the relationship. That said, my DH changed dramatically when he went on anti-depressants. Nothing physical for a couple years. We also started therapy and, since then, the emotional abuse has decreased as well.

[Anonymous]

YEArs ago I did a lot of research on this and one statistic in saw was that 50% of men who hit will hit again. I think once you get to the second hit, it’s probablt a lot closer to 100%. I also suspect that, of the 50% that only hit once, there is not generally a pattern of control, anger issues, threats, etc.

[Anonymous]

I was in an abusive marriage. I do not think it gets better. I'm sure I'm very jaded. He broke my collarbone. I woke up to a pillow over my face. He held a knife to my throat. On and on and on. I absolutely believe he would have killed me had I stayed. I left at 2am with my children and whatever I could fit in the back of my car. My attorney and my caseworker helped me leave. It started with verbal abuse, escalated to a little pushing and shoving, and just kept getting worse. Sorry, but I believe"once an abuser, always an abuser". They do not get better.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, my exW was very abusive snd she simply got worse over time. She went from being verbally abusive to physical. I had stitches put in my head after she threw a glass at me. Could never get her arrested or prosecuted. Police just asked me to leave my house.