Cross-class marriages

[Anonymous]

People can come from different backgrounds and have very happy marriages. People can come from very similar backgrounds and have very different values and ideas about how money is spent and what's important in life.

But the most important thing I have to ask you, OP, is what is on top of the "U" in your "UMC"? Is this a fancy person thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems some people are saying it's not a big deal. Then go on to say they have little to no contact with the working-class family...That seems to be at odds with it not being a big deal, right?

I married someone from a different "class" -- which really sounds quite gross to even say. But our issues aren't mingling family, as that's fine. It's because of different expectations and goals that aren't always in sync.

He didn't grow up traveling, doesn't think it's important. I think it's important for kids to be exposed to different cultures and have those experiences. I put a lot of value in education. He thinks more that it doesn't matter what education you have, or if you have a high GPA/good grades/excel in programs, etc., as long as you get what you want out of it, and also that college isn't important. We spend tens of thousands of dollars a year for activities for the kids, because I think it's important for them to be involved in such things. And, frankly, they love it and have made good friends from it. He doesn't think that kids should be involved in so much and if they did nothing outside of school, that would be fine. He can sometimes get uncomfortable in situations where he's surrounded by a lot of people who come from privileged lives, and he can be awkward and stiff and say things that you shouldn't say (I think it's his nerves trying to fit in.) He never really wants "more"...thinks anytime I want a new car or to move, that I'm trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, I just want a bigger yard, or a new neighborhood, or I'm just tired of my car and want a new one. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I feel like he is constantly trying to validate that his childhood and background are just fine and good enough and people who had it "better" aren't better than him. It's almost like guilt or something that his family will think he's changed or rubbing his life here in their faces (he's from working class New England) and that if he succumbs to all these things that I grew up with or doing, he's being disloyal or something to his upbringing.

In our family, we have found ourselves using the term "goober pride" to indicate that attitude of "I grew up watching wrestling on TV and we never subscribed to a newspaper and we turned out just fine, so why do you guys all think you need to be fancy?" We encounter a lot of that in his side of the family.
But then there's also a psychological component. Sometimes when my husband tells stories about his upbringing, he describes things that sound like neglect to me -- being dropped off at college with a garbage bag full of clothes and nothing else. No lamp, no laundry basket, etc. Using your summer earnings to pay your contribution to college, and having basically nothing left to live on for the rest of the semester. Never going out on a weekend with the other students because you literally have no money for a cup of coffee, a subway sandwich, etc. Never having your parents visit you at college. Having clothing that clearly marks you as different from the other students and having no ability to fit in, etc.
Our conflict as a couple has been that my husband presents this scenario as normal -- rather than saying, "Gee, it really sucked to be so different and so poor in college and we have the ability to help our kids and that's what we're going to do." Instead, he's like "I survived going to college with no spending money, so we should do the same for our kids. It's good for them, toughens them up, etc." He also seems to have this contrarian attitude where we can afford things but he will decide not to pay for them just so that they can have the experience of doing without (i.e. I would like our son to join a fraternity, be able to join the other kids for spring break).
We have fought over every Stanley Kaplan, Kumon, summer camp, private music lesson, private swimming lesson, expenditure and honestly, if I didn't work myself and also have some family money, I'm not sure if our marriage would have survived. We basically have an uneasy truce where I pay for everything that he thinks is wasteful, stupid and expensive -- from name brand clothing, to lessons, etc.
It's not all bad. For example, thanks to him they've taken on substantive jobs in the summers after high school and college rather than attending expensive summer programs, and honestly they are probably more mature and have better leadership skills than I did at their age as a result.
CUrrently we are negotiating what, if anything, is a reasonable way to help a child who is graduating from college and getting launched in the real world. Here again I worry that he will say that he lived in an unsafe apartment in a bad section of town and had those plastic lawn chairs in his studio apartment for furniture, so that's reasonable. We will see . ..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here with experience marrying into a family from a different class?

I grew up ÛMC/global elite and am marrying a first generation college graduate from a LMC/blue collar family.

What should I know?

This only works if the LMC DH had made it big and essentially worked his way into your class OR you are some hippie bohemian not beholden to the trappings and lifestyle of wealth

From the bold I would say he better make mad money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, but you AND your DH just sound like insufferable caricatures of rich and poor people and generally sound like a really bad fit. He thinks education and cultural experiences don't matter at all? And you think it's important to spend tens of thousands a year on their activities? Yeah, you both just sound like jerks. Why are you married?

You sound very angry.

One season of a travel sport my kid plays costs ~7k. A season of competition dance is about the same. We have three kids. They're doing things August-June. It's really not too hard to spend tens of thousands on such things. That's not even UMC, in my opinion, because it's not as though only the children with UMC parents are participating in these things.

And again, he has these viewpoints because where he grew up, there wasn't money for or importance placed on these things. If you graduate high school and marry someone from down the street and stay in the same neighborhood you grew up in (with basically your entire family within 20 minutes because no one moves away) then you've "made it". And as a PP said, there is a sense of pride in these things. To not "give in" to things they consider to be fancy or for rich people. An example is my son plays lacrosse and hockey. Those are called rich people sports where he is from. And paying this much for dance is literally unheard of...like they legitimately didn't know competitive dance for girls this age was a thing. And traveling out of the country? They had no money to do so. So if it was good enough for his family, then it's good enough for everyone else.

To me it sounds like you are the one out of touch with various socioeconomic classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems some people are saying it's not a big deal. Then go on to say they have little to no contact with the working-class family...That seems to be at odds with it not being a big deal, right?

I married someone from a different "class" -- which really sounds quite gross to even say. But our issues aren't mingling family, as that's fine. It's because of different expectations and goals that aren't always in sync.

He didn't grow up traveling, doesn't think it's important. I think it's important for kids to be exposed to different cultures and have those experiences. I put a lot of value in education. He thinks more that it doesn't matter what education you have, or if you have a high GPA/good grades/excel in programs, etc., as long as you get what you want out of it, and also that college isn't important. We spend tens of thousands of dollars a year for activities for the kids, because I think it's important for them to be involved in such things. And, frankly, they love it and have made good friends from it. He doesn't think that kids should be involved in so much and if they did nothing outside of school, that would be fine. He can sometimes get uncomfortable in situations where he's surrounded by a lot of people who come from privileged lives, and he can be awkward and stiff and say things that you shouldn't say (I think it's his nerves trying to fit in.) He never really wants "more"...thinks anytime I want a new car or to move, that I'm trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, I just want a bigger yard, or a new neighborhood, or I'm just tired of my car and want a new one. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I feel like he is constantly trying to validate that his childhood and background are just fine and good enough and people who had it "better" aren't better than him. It's almost like guilt or something that his family will think he's changed or rubbing his life here in their faces (he's from working class New England) and that if he succumbs to all these things that I grew up with or doing, he's being disloyal or something to his upbringing.

In our family, we have found ourselves using the term "goober pride" to indicate that attitude of "I grew up watching wrestling on TV and we never subscribed to a newspaper and we turned out just fine, so why do you guys all think you need to be fancy?" We encounter a lot of that in his side of the family.
But then there's also a psychological component. Sometimes when my husband tells stories about his upbringing, he describes things that sound like neglect to me -- being dropped off at college with a garbage bag full of clothes and nothing else. No lamp, no laundry basket, etc. Using your summer earnings to pay your contribution to college, and having basically nothing left to live on for the rest of the semester. Never going out on a weekend with the other students because you literally have no money for a cup of coffee, a subway sandwich, etc. Never having your parents visit you at college. Having clothing that clearly marks you as different from the other students and having no ability to fit in, etc.
Our conflict as a couple has been that my husband presents this scenario as normal -- rather than saying, "Gee, it really sucked to be so different and so poor in college and we have the ability to help our kids and that's what we're going to do." Instead, he's like "I survived going to college with no spending money, so we should do the same for our kids. It's good for them, toughens them up, etc." He also seems to have this contrarian attitude where we can afford things but he will decide not to pay for them just so that they can have the experience of doing without (i.e. I would like our son to join a fraternity, be able to join the other kids for spring break).
We have fought over every Stanley Kaplan, Kumon, summer camp, private music lesson, private swimming lesson, expenditure and honestly, if I didn't work myself and also have some family money, I'm not sure if our marriage would have survived. We basically have an uneasy truce where I pay for everything that he thinks is wasteful, stupid and expensive -- from name brand clothing, to lessons, etc.
It's not all bad. For example, thanks to him they've taken on substantive jobs in the summers after high school and college rather than attending expensive summer programs, and honestly they are probably more mature and have better leadership skills than I did at their age as a result.
CUrrently we are negotiating what, if anything, is a reasonable way to help a child who is graduating from college and getting launched in the real world. Here again I worry that he will say that he lived in an unsafe apartment in a bad section of town and had those plastic lawn chairs in his studio apartment for furniture, so that's reasonable. We will see . ..
Seriously? This is not neglect...clearly you have not worked in or been exposed to children's social services...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems some people are saying it's not a big deal. Then go on to say they have little to no contact with the working-class family...That seems to be at odds with it not being a big deal, right?

I married someone from a different "class" -- which really sounds quite gross to even say. But our issues aren't mingling family, as that's fine. It's because of different expectations and goals that aren't always in sync.

He didn't grow up traveling, doesn't think it's important. I think it's important for kids to be exposed to different cultures and have those experiences. I put a lot of value in education. He thinks more that it doesn't matter what education you have, or if you have a high GPA/good grades/excel in programs, etc., as long as you get what you want out of it, and also that college isn't important. We spend tens of thousands of dollars a year for activities for the kids, because I think it's important for them to be involved in such things. And, frankly, they love it and have made good friends from it. He doesn't think that kids should be involved in so much and if they did nothing outside of school, that would be fine. He can sometimes get uncomfortable in situations where he's surrounded by a lot of people who come from privileged lives, and he can be awkward and stiff and say things that you shouldn't say (I think it's his nerves trying to fit in.) He never really wants "more"...thinks anytime I want a new car or to move, that I'm trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, I just want a bigger yard, or a new neighborhood, or I'm just tired of my car and want a new one. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I feel like he is constantly trying to validate that his childhood and background are just fine and good enough and people who had it "better" aren't better than him. It's almost like guilt or something that his family will think he's changed or rubbing his life here in their faces (he's from working class New England) and that if he succumbs to all these things that I grew up with or doing, he's being disloyal or something to his upbringing.

In our family, we have found ourselves using the term "goober pride" to indicate that attitude of "I grew up watching wrestling on TV and we never subscribed to a newspaper and we turned out just fine, so why do you guys all think you need to be fancy?" We encounter a lot of that in his side of the family.
But then there's also a psychological component. Sometimes when my husband tells stories about his upbringing, he describes things that sound like neglect to me -- being dropped off at college with a garbage bag full of clothes and nothing else. No lamp, no laundry basket, etc. Using your summer earnings to pay your contribution to college, and having basically nothing left to live on for the rest of the semester. Never going out on a weekend with the other students because you literally have no money for a cup of coffee, a subway sandwich, etc. Never having your parents visit you at college. Having clothing that clearly marks you as different from the other students and having no ability to fit in, etc.
Our conflict as a couple has been that my husband presents this scenario as normal -- rather than saying, "Gee, it really sucked to be so different and so poor in college and we have the ability to help our kids and that's what we're going to do." Instead, he's like "I survived going to college with no spending money, so we should do the same for our kids. It's good for them, toughens them up, etc." He also seems to have this contrarian attitude where we can afford things but he will decide not to pay for them just so that they can have the experience of doing without (i.e. I would like our son to join a fraternity, be able to join the other kids for spring break).
We have fought over every Stanley Kaplan, Kumon, summer camp, private music lesson, private swimming lesson, expenditure and honestly, if I didn't work myself and also have some family money, I'm not sure if our marriage would have survived. We basically have an uneasy truce where I pay for everything that he thinks is wasteful, stupid and expensive -- from name brand clothing, to lessons, etc.
It's not all bad. For example, thanks to him they've taken on substantive jobs in the summers after high school and college rather than attending expensive summer programs, and honestly they are probably more mature and have better leadership skills than I did at their age as a result.
CUrrently we are negotiating what, if anything, is a reasonable way to help a child who is graduating from college and getting launched in the real world. Here again I worry that he will say that he lived in an unsafe apartment in a bad section of town and had those plastic lawn chairs in his studio apartment for furniture, so that's reasonable. We will see . ..


Seriously? This is not neglect...clearly you have not worked in or been exposed to children's social services...

I wouldn't use the term neglect, but if you aren't used to it, it does come off as out of the ordinary and harsh.

It wasn't until I went to college that I fully understood some people have to pay for their own college and they also HAVE to work at the same time. It did seem cruel to me that parents weren't fully funding everything and people weren't getting monthly deposits into their bank accounts or a credit card to use as they please. Because I had never been exposed to not having money readily available whenever you wanted it. I worked in high school, but I didn't "have" to. My parents wanted me to not be spoiled and pay for my own gas and some clothes. I was in high school before I realized a mortgage and rent weren't the same thing. I thought you could use them interchangeably. College really opened up my eyes to the real world. And I'm sure I came off as rude to new people I met who weren't from the same area, and I would ask questions about things.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Being dropped off at college with a bag of clothes and a need to work part-time is a normal experience.

it's totally not neglect.

it's totally not 'cruel', another term you use.

[Anonymous]

Ugh there are some gross people on here who are going to be raising some bratty entitled kids. "But we had to buy her the Mercedes! the vw wasn't safe enough!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Being dropped off at college with a bag of clothes and a need to work part-time is a normal experience.

it's totally not neglect.

it's totally not 'cruel', another term you use.

Yeah. My siblings and I all had part time work in college. We needed the money for extracurricular since parents only covered tuition.

They weren't cruel. Its just life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here with experience marrying into a family from a different class?

I grew up ÛMC/global elite and am marrying a first generation college graduate from a LMC/blue collar family.

What should I know?

Your marriage will likely fail, especially if you're a female marrying a male.

What would possess you to say such a thing?!

[Anonymous]

What century are you visiting us from, OP time traveler?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems some people are saying it's not a big deal. Then go on to say they have little to no contact with the working-class family...That seems to be at odds with it not being a big deal, right?

I married someone from a different "class" -- which really sounds quite gross to even say. But our issues aren't mingling family, as that's fine. It's because of different expectations and goals that aren't always in sync.

He didn't grow up traveling, doesn't think it's important. I think it's important for kids to be exposed to different cultures and have those experiences. I put a lot of value in education. He thinks more that it doesn't matter what education you have, or if you have a high GPA/good grades/excel in programs, etc., as long as you get what you want out of it, and also that college isn't important. We spend tens of thousands of dollars a year for activities for the kids, because I think it's important for them to be involved in such things. And, frankly, they love it and have made good friends from it. He doesn't think that kids should be involved in so much and if they did nothing outside of school, that would be fine. He can sometimes get uncomfortable in situations where he's surrounded by a lot of people who come from privileged lives, and he can be awkward and stiff and say things that you shouldn't say (I think it's his nerves trying to fit in.) He never really wants "more"...thinks anytime I want a new car or to move, that I'm trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, I just want a bigger yard, or a new neighborhood, or I'm just tired of my car and want a new one. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I feel like he is constantly trying to validate that his childhood and background are just fine and good enough and people who had it "better" aren't better than him. It's almost like guilt or something that his family will think he's changed or rubbing his life here in their faces (he's from working class New England) and that if he succumbs to all these things that I grew up with or doing, he's being disloyal or something to his upbringing.

In our family, we have found ourselves using the term "goober pride" to indicate that attitude of "I grew up watching wrestling on TV and we never subscribed to a newspaper and we turned out just fine, so why do you guys all think you need to be fancy?" We encounter a lot of that in his side of the family.
But then there's also a psychological component. Sometimes when my husband tells stories about his upbringing, he describes things that sound like neglect to me -- being dropped off at college with a garbage bag full of clothes and nothing else. No lamp, no laundry basket, etc. Using your summer earnings to pay your contribution to college, and having basically nothing left to live on for the rest of the semester. Never going out on a weekend with the other students because you literally have no money for a cup of coffee, a subway sandwich, etc. Never having your parents visit you at college. Having clothing that clearly marks you as different from the other students and having no ability to fit in, etc.
Our conflict as a couple has been that my husband presents this scenario as normal -- rather than saying, "Gee, it really sucked to be so different and so poor in college and we have the ability to help our kids and that's what we're going to do." Instead, he's like "I survived going to college with no spending money, so we should do the same for our kids. It's good for them, toughens them up, etc." He also seems to have this contrarian attitude where we can afford things but he will decide not to pay for them just so that they can have the experience of doing without (i.e. I would like our son to join a fraternity, be able to join the other kids for spring break).
We have fought over every Stanley Kaplan, Kumon, summer camp, private music lesson, private swimming lesson, expenditure and honestly, if I didn't work myself and also have some family money, I'm not sure if our marriage would have survived. We basically have an uneasy truce where I pay for everything that he thinks is wasteful, stupid and expensive -- from name brand clothing, to lessons, etc.
It's not all bad. For example, thanks to him they've taken on substantive jobs in the summers after high school and college rather than attending expensive summer programs, and honestly they are probably more mature and have better leadership skills than I did at their age as a result.
CUrrently we are negotiating what, if anything, is a reasonable way to help a child who is graduating from college and getting launched in the real world. Here again I worry that he will say that he lived in an unsafe apartment in a bad section of town and had those plastic lawn chairs in his studio apartment for furniture, so that's reasonable. We will see . ..

You are extremely out of touch. This is real life for the 99%.

[Anonymous]

Expect your children's IQ to regress to the mean.

[Anonymous]

If real life for 99 percent of people is dropping your kid off at college with a garbage bag of clothes and nothing else, then who are all those people in Target and walmart and IKEA and Bed, Bath and Beyond buying sheets and towels every fall? I don't think the norm is to send your child with nothing, not even a trash can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If real life for 99 percent of people is dropping your kid off at college with a garbage bag of clothes and nothing else, then who are all those people in Target and walmart and IKEA and Bed, Bath and Beyond buying sheets and towels every fall? I don't think the norm is to send your child with nothing, not even a trash can.

I agree. I went to Ohio State, and I can't think of anyone who came to school without sheets or a lamp. 90% of kids also had a computer in 1999.