Cross-class marriages

[Anonymous]

She came from Greece she had a thirst for knowledge,
She studied sculpture at Saint Martin's College,
That's where I,
Caught her eye.
She told me that her Dad was loaded,
I said "In that case I'll have a rum and coca-cola."
She said "Fine."
And in thirty seconds time she said,
I want to live like common people,
I want to do whatever common people do,
I want to sleep with common people,
I want to sleep with common people,
Like you.
Well what else could I do
I said "I'll see what I can do."
I took her to a supermarket,
I don't know why,
But I had to start it somewhere,
So it started there.
I said pretend you've got no money,
She just laughed and said,
"Oh you're so funny."
I said "Yeah?
Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM

[Anonymous]

...

But she didn't understand,
She just smiled and held my hand.
Rent a flat above a shop,
Cut your hair and get a job.
Smoke some fags and play some pool,
Pretend you never went to school.
But still you'll never get it right,
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night,
Watching roaches climb the wall,
If you called your Dad he could stop it all.
...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems some people are saying it's not a big deal. Then go on to say they have little to no contact with the working-class family...That seems to be at odds with it not being a big deal, right?

I married someone from a different "class" -- which really sounds quite gross to even say. But our issues aren't mingling family, as that's fine. It's because of different expectations and goals that aren't always in sync.

He didn't grow up traveling, doesn't think it's important. I think it's important for kids to be exposed to different cultures and have those experiences. I put a lot of value in education. He thinks more that it doesn't matter what education you have, or if you have a high GPA/good grades/excel in programs, etc., as long as you get what you want out of it, and also that college isn't important. We spend tens of thousands of dollars a year for activities for the kids, because I think it's important for them to be involved in such things. And, frankly, they love it and have made good friends from it. He doesn't think that kids should be involved in so much and if they did nothing outside of school, that would be fine. He can sometimes get uncomfortable in situations where he's surrounded by a lot of people who come from privileged lives, and he can be awkward and stiff and say things that you shouldn't say (I think it's his nerves trying to fit in.) He never really wants "more"...thinks anytime I want a new car or to move, that I'm trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, I just want a bigger yard, or a new neighborhood, or I'm just tired of my car and want a new one. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I feel like he is constantly trying to validate that his childhood and background are just fine and good enough and people who had it "better" aren't better than him. It's almost like guilt or something that his family will think he's changed or rubbing his life here in their faces (he's from working class New England) and that if he succumbs to all these things that I grew up with or doing, he's being disloyal or something to his upbringing.

In our family, we have found ourselves using the term "goober pride" to indicate that attitude of "I grew up watching wrestling on TV and we never subscribed to a newspaper and we turned out just fine, so why do you guys all think you need to be fancy?" We encounter a lot of that in his side of the family.
But then there's also a psychological component. Sometimes when my husband tells stories about his upbringing, he describes things that sound like neglect to me -- being dropped off at college with a garbage bag full of clothes and nothing else. No lamp, no laundry basket, etc. Using your summer earnings to pay your contribution to college, and having basically nothing left to live on for the rest of the semester. Never going out on a weekend with the other students because you literally have no money for a cup of coffee, a subway sandwich, etc. Never having your parents visit you at college. Having clothing that clearly marks you as different from the other students and having no ability to fit in, etc.
Our conflict as a couple has been that my husband presents this scenario as normal -- rather than saying, "Gee, it really sucked to be so different and so poor in college and we have the ability to help our kids and that's what we're going to do." Instead, he's like "I survived going to college with no spending money, so we should do the same for our kids. It's good for them, toughens them up, etc." He also seems to have this contrarian attitude where we can afford things but he will decide not to pay for them just so that they can have the experience of doing without (i.e. I would like our son to join a fraternity, be able to join the other kids for spring break).
We have fought over every Stanley Kaplan, Kumon, summer camp, private music lesson, private swimming lesson, expenditure and honestly, if I didn't work myself and also have some family money, I'm not sure if our marriage would have survived. We basically have an uneasy truce where I pay for everything that he thinks is wasteful, stupid and expensive -- from name brand clothing, to lessons, etc.
It's not all bad. For example, thanks to him they've taken on substantive jobs in the summers after high school and college rather than attending expensive summer programs, and honestly they are probably more mature and have better leadership skills than I did at their age as a result.
CUrrently we are negotiating what, if anything, is a reasonable way to help a child who is graduating from college and getting launched in the real world. Here again I worry that he will say that he lived in an unsafe apartment in a bad section of town and had those plastic lawn chairs in his studio apartment for furniture, so that's reasonable. We will see . ..


Seriously? This is not neglect...clearly you have not worked in or been exposed to children's social services...

I wouldn't use the term neglect, but if you aren't used to it, it does come off as out of the ordinary and harsh.

It wasn't until I went to college that I fully understood some people have to pay for their own college and they also HAVE to work at the same time. It did seem cruel to me that parents weren't fully funding everything and people weren't getting monthly deposits into their bank accounts or a credit card to use as they please. Because I had never been exposed to not having money readily available whenever you wanted it. I worked in high school, but I didn't "have" to. My parents wanted me to not be spoiled and pay for my own gas and some clothes. I was in high school before I realized a mortgage and rent weren't the same thing. I thought you could use them interchangeably. College really opened up my eyes to the real world. And I'm sure I came off as rude to new people I met who weren't from the same area, and I would ask questions about things.

No offense intended (really), but it is hard to believe someone can grow up being that cluless and have no exposure at all to class or income differences. How can someone think that all families can fully and readily fund college? My children attend private schools, and having them be this clueless is a major concern for me. They volunteer at soup kitchens and other places in the community for this reason. Expecting someone to work for college tuition and expenses is not neglect. I grew up like you did but not as oblivious.

[Anonymous]

^^ +1. The upside to private education is typically the education itself...The downside is the lack of awareness and sense of privilege/entitlement that can result...and being in that UMC/UC bubble. Having clueless kids is something I really don't want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems some people are saying it's not a big deal. Then go on to say they have little to no contact with the working-class family...That seems to be at odds with it not being a big deal, right?

I married someone from a different "class" -- which really sounds quite gross to even say. But our issues aren't mingling family, as that's fine. It's because of different expectations and goals that aren't always in sync.

He didn't grow up traveling, doesn't think it's important. I think it's important for kids to be exposed to different cultures and have those experiences. I put a lot of value in education. He thinks more that it doesn't matter what education you have, or if you have a high GPA/good grades/excel in programs, etc., as long as you get what you want out of it, and also that college isn't important. We spend tens of thousands of dollars a year for activities for the kids, because I think it's important for them to be involved in such things. And, frankly, they love it and have made good friends from it. He doesn't think that kids should be involved in so much and if they did nothing outside of school, that would be fine. He can sometimes get uncomfortable in situations where he's surrounded by a lot of people who come from privileged lives, and he can be awkward and stiff and say things that you shouldn't say (I think it's his nerves trying to fit in.) He never really wants "more"...thinks anytime I want a new car or to move, that I'm trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, I just want a bigger yard, or a new neighborhood, or I'm just tired of my car and want a new one. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I feel like he is constantly trying to validate that his childhood and background are just fine and good enough and people who had it "better" aren't better than him. It's almost like guilt or something that his family will think he's changed or rubbing his life here in their faces (he's from working class New England) and that if he succumbs to all these things that I grew up with or doing, he's being disloyal or something to his upbringing.

In our family, we have found ourselves using the term "goober pride" to indicate that attitude of "I grew up watching wrestling on TV and we never subscribed to a newspaper and we turned out just fine, so why do you guys all think you need to be fancy?" We encounter a lot of that in his side of the family.
But then there's also a psychological component. Sometimes when my husband tells stories about his upbringing, he describes things that sound like neglect to me -- being dropped off at college with a garbage bag full of clothes and nothing else. No lamp, no laundry basket, etc. Using your summer earnings to pay your contribution to college, and having basically nothing left to live on for the rest of the semester. Never going out on a weekend with the other students because you literally have no money for a cup of coffee, a subway sandwich, etc. Never having your parents visit you at college. Having clothing that clearly marks you as different from the other students and having no ability to fit in, etc.
Our conflict as a couple has been that my husband presents this scenario as normal -- rather than saying, "Gee, it really sucked to be so different and so poor in college and we have the ability to help our kids and that's what we're going to do." Instead, he's like "I survived going to college with no spending money, so we should do the same for our kids. It's good for them, toughens them up, etc." He also seems to have this contrarian attitude where we can afford things but he will decide not to pay for them just so that they can have the experience of doing without (i.e. I would like our son to join a fraternity, be able to join the other kids for spring break).
We have fought over every Stanley Kaplan, Kumon, summer camp, private music lesson, private swimming lesson, expenditure and honestly, if I didn't work myself and also have some family money, I'm not sure if our marriage would have survived. We basically have an uneasy truce where I pay for everything that he thinks is wasteful, stupid and expensive -- from name brand clothing, to lessons, etc.
It's not all bad. For example, thanks to him they've taken on substantive jobs in the summers after high school and college rather than attending expensive summer programs, and honestly they are probably more mature and have better leadership skills than I did at their age as a result.
CUrrently we are negotiating what, if anything, is a reasonable way to help a child who is graduating from college and getting launched in the real world. Here again I worry that he will say that he lived in an unsafe apartment in a bad section of town and had those plastic lawn chairs in his studio apartment for furniture, so that's reasonable. We will see . ..


Seriously? This is not neglect...clearly you have not worked in or been exposed to children's social services...

I wouldn't use the term neglect, but if you aren't used to it, it does come off as out of the ordinary and harsh.

It wasn't until I went to college that I fully understood some people have to pay for their own college and they also HAVE to work at the same time. It did seem cruel to me that parents weren't fully funding everything and people weren't getting monthly deposits into their bank accounts or a credit card to use as they please. Because I had never been exposed to not having money readily available whenever you wanted it. I worked in high school, but I didn't "have" to. My parents wanted me to not be spoiled and pay for my own gas and some clothes. I was in high school before I realized a mortgage and rent weren't the same thing. I thought you could use them interchangeably. College really opened up my eyes to the real world. And I'm sure I came off as rude to new people I met who weren't from the same area, and I would ask questions about things.

No offense intended (really), but it is hard to believe someone can grow up being that cluless and have no exposure at all to class or income differences. How can someone think that all families can fully and readily fund college? My children attend private schools, and having them be this clueless is a major concern for me. They volunteer at soup kitchens and other places in the community for this reason. Expecting someone to work for college tuition and expenses is not neglect. I grew up like you did but not as oblivious.

So here's the thing, I also volunteered at soup kitchens, etc. while growing up, but it always seemed so separate from my reality. So yes, I knew that there were people who didn't go to private school, but that doesn't mean that I equated homeless people for whom I made sandwiches to the people that I'd be going to college with. I know looking back now that some of the kids at my school must have been getting financial aid, but it never occurred to me while I was there. Honestly, it never occurred to me that my parents were paying a lot for me to go to school. I knew that it cost money, but not how much, and not how much versus how much another private might be. Of course, I also graduated from high school in 1997, so the internet wasn't quite what it is now - I don't even know how I would have gone about finding out what other schools' tuitions were even if I had wanted to. So my point is, I knew that there were people who had less money than my family did (including people who were homeless), but that somehow didn't make me understand that there were people who couldn't afford to pay for college. Perhaps it's because what I saw were two extremes? I think it would have been more helpful to learn that kids on a local sports team needed a scholarship in order to be able to play on there or something, I don't know. I'm just saying that you should consider that exposing your children to homeless people isn't necessarily going to help them not be oblivious. I worry about the same thing with my own kids, so I am trying to be conscious of what I need to expose them to so that they don't get to college and find out that there is a lot more to the world than what they see on a daily basis at their private school.

[Anonymous]

Yes. They don't just volunteer at homeless shelters. Just driving them through neighborhoods that aren't filled with McMansions is enlightening for them. I can tell they are surprised that people live in small ranches with small yards or "no driveways." Also trying to get them to see that playing travel sports is also a privilege. Time, money, having two parents, something a lot of people don't have.

[Anonymous]

My parents bought me a college guide book in high school that had all colleges and their tuitions, etc., in there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents bought me a college guide book in high school that had all colleges and their tuitions, etc., in there.

Yep, I had that, too. Did it also have private high school tuitions? That was my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. They don't just volunteer at homeless shelters. Just driving them through neighborhoods that aren't filled with McMansions is enlightening for them. I can tell they are surprised that people live in small ranches with small yards or "no driveways." Also trying to get them to see that playing travel sports is also a privilege. Time, money, having two parents, something a lot of people don't have.

I wasn't trying to argue with you, just trying to point out that it didn't hit home for me that people couldn't afford college, despite the fact that I was aware that people lived in (gasp!) apartments. I think the thing was, I didn't know how much money my parents made, and I didn't really understand the level of income disparity that existed. Like, I knew that people lived in smaller houses than mine, but I didn't realize that my parents made hundreds of thousands of dollars more than those people. I knew they probably made more, hence, our house was bigger, but I didn't understand just how vast the difference could be. I think it would have been more useful for me to understand what life costs and appreciate why some people don't have the stuff we had would have been more useful than driving by neighborhoods with smaller houses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents bought me a college guide book in high school that had all colleges and their tuitions, etc., in there.

Yep, I had that, too. Did it also have private high school tuitions? That was my point.

My parents told me what the high school tuition cost, as far as I can recall. It wasn't public, so I knew it cost more than tax dollars. I remember being aware that others cost more, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. They don't just volunteer at homeless shelters. Just driving them through neighborhoods that aren't filled with McMansions is enlightening for them. I can tell they are surprised that people live in small ranches with small yards or "no driveways." Also trying to get them to see that playing travel sports is also a privilege. Time, money, having two parents, something a lot of people don't have.

I wasn't trying to argue with you, just trying to point out that it didn't hit home for me that people couldn't afford college, despite the fact that I was aware that people lived in (gasp!) apartments. I think the thing was, I didn't know how much money my parents made, and I didn't really understand the level of income disparity that existed. Like, I knew that people lived in smaller houses than mine, but I didn't realize that my parents made hundreds of thousands of dollars more than those people. I knew they probably made more, hence, our house was bigger, but I didn't understand just how vast the difference could be. I think it would have been more useful for me to understand what life costs and appreciate why some people don't have the stuff we had would have been more useful than driving by neighborhoods with smaller houses.

I frequently remind my kids of what their tuition costs, what they can expect to earn in various professions, what different high schools cost, what it takes to get into different fields of study, what the cost of their rent would be.. I hope it sinks in eventually. To some extent, I think they think people choose to live in smaller houses or poorer neighborhoods by choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. They don't just volunteer at homeless shelters. Just driving them through neighborhoods that aren't filled with McMansions is enlightening for them. I can tell they are surprised that people live in small ranches with small yards or "no driveways." Also trying to get them to see that playing travel sports is also a privilege. Time, money, having two parents, something a lot of people don't have.

I wasn't trying to argue with you, just trying to point out that it didn't hit home for me that people couldn't afford college, despite the fact that I was aware that people lived in (gasp!) apartments. I think the thing was, I didn't know how much money my parents made, and I didn't really understand the level of income disparity that existed. Like, I knew that people lived in smaller houses than mine, but I didn't realize that my parents made hundreds of thousands of dollars more than those people. I knew they probably made more, hence, our house was bigger, but I didn't understand just how vast the difference could be. I think it would have been more useful for me to understand what life costs and appreciate why some people don't have the stuff we had would have been more useful than driving by neighborhoods with smaller houses.

Not arguing with you either, just saying that having my kids grow up being this clueless about life and reality is something I very much try to prevent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...

But she didn't understand,
She just smiled and held my hand.
Rent a flat above a shop,
Cut your hair and get a job.
Smoke some fags and play some pool,
Pretend you never went to school.
But still you'll never get it right,
'Cause when you're laid in bed at night,
Watching roaches climb the wall,
If you called your Dad he could stop it all.
...

OMG how nice to come on here and see Pulp. I love you all. But the best lines in regards to this thread-

You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And we dance and drink and screw
'cuz there's nothing else to do...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here with experience marrying into a family from a different class?

I grew up ÛMC/global elite and am marrying a first generation college graduate from a LMC/blue collar family.

What should I know?

You are getting a hell of an in laws.
Well, you are getting them no matter whom you marry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems some people are saying it's not a big deal. Then go on to say they have little to no contact with the working-class family...That seems to be at odds with it not being a big deal, right?

I married someone from a different "class" -- which really sounds quite gross to even say. But our issues aren't mingling family, as that's fine. It's because of different expectations and goals that aren't always in sync.

He didn't grow up traveling, doesn't think it's important. I think it's important for kids to be exposed to different cultures and have those experiences. I put a lot of value in education. He thinks more that it doesn't matter what education you have, or if you have a high GPA/good grades/excel in programs, etc., as long as you get what you want out of it, and also that college isn't important. We spend tens of thousands of dollars a year for activities for the kids, because I think it's important for them to be involved in such things. And, frankly, they love it and have made good friends from it. He doesn't think that kids should be involved in so much and if they did nothing outside of school, that would be fine. He can sometimes get uncomfortable in situations where he's surrounded by a lot of people who come from privileged lives, and he can be awkward and stiff and say things that you shouldn't say (I think it's his nerves trying to fit in.) He never really wants "more"...thinks anytime I want a new car or to move, that I'm trying to keep up with the Jones'. But, I just want a bigger yard, or a new neighborhood, or I'm just tired of my car and want a new one. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I feel like he is constantly trying to validate that his childhood and background are just fine and good enough and people who had it "better" aren't better than him. It's almost like guilt or something that his family will think he's changed or rubbing his life here in their faces (he's from working class New England) and that if he succumbs to all these things that I grew up with or doing, he's being disloyal or something to his upbringing.

In our family, we have found ourselves using the term "goober pride" to indicate that attitude of "I grew up watching wrestling on TV and we never subscribed to a newspaper and we turned out just fine, so why do you guys all think you need to be fancy?" We encounter a lot of that in his side of the family.
But then there's also a psychological component. Sometimes when my husband tells stories about his upbringing, he describes things that sound like neglect to me -- being dropped off at college with a garbage bag full of clothes and nothing else. No lamp, no laundry basket, etc. Using your summer earnings to pay your contribution to college, and having basically nothing left to live on for the rest of the semester. Never going out on a weekend with the other students because you literally have no money for a cup of coffee, a subway sandwich, etc. Never having your parents visit you at college. Having clothing that clearly marks you as different from the other students and having no ability to fit in, etc.
Our conflict as a couple has been that my husband presents this scenario as normal -- rather than saying, "Gee, it really sucked to be so different and so poor in college and we have the ability to help our kids and that's what we're going to do." Instead, he's like "I survived going to college with no spending money, so we should do the same for our kids. It's good for them, toughens them up, etc." He also seems to have this contrarian attitude where we can afford things but he will decide not to pay for them just so that they can have the experience of doing without (i.e. I would like our son to join a fraternity, be able to join the other kids for spring break).
We have fought over every Stanley Kaplan, Kumon, summer camp, private music lesson, private swimming lesson, expenditure and honestly, if I didn't work myself and also have some family money, I'm not sure if our marriage would have survived. We basically have an uneasy truce where I pay for everything that he thinks is wasteful, stupid and expensive -- from name brand clothing, to lessons, etc.
It's not all bad. For example, thanks to him they've taken on substantive jobs in the summers after high school and college rather than attending expensive summer programs, and honestly they are probably more mature and have better leadership skills than I did at their age as a result.
CUrrently we are negotiating what, if anything, is a reasonable way to help a child who is graduating from college and getting launched in the real world. Here again I worry that he will say that he lived in an unsafe apartment in a bad section of town and had those plastic lawn chairs in his studio apartment for furniture, so that's reasonable. We will see . ..


Seriously? This is not neglect...clearly you have not worked in or been exposed to children's social services...

I wouldn't use the term neglect, but if you aren't used to it, it does come off as out of the ordinary and harsh.

It wasn't until I went to college that I fully understood some people have to pay for their own college and they also HAVE to work at the same time. It did seem cruel to me that parents weren't fully funding everything and people weren't getting monthly deposits into their bank accounts or a credit card to use as they please. Because I had never been exposed to not having money readily available whenever you wanted it. I worked in high school, but I didn't "have" to. My parents wanted me to not be spoiled and pay for my own gas and some clothes. I was in high school before I realized a mortgage and rent weren't the same thing. I thought you could use them interchangeably. College really opened up my eyes to the real world. And I'm sure I came off as rude to new people I met who weren't from the same area, and I would ask questions about things.

No offense intended (really), but it is hard to believe someone can grow up being that cluless and have no exposure at all to class or income differences. How can someone think that all families can fully and readily fund college? My children attend private schools, and having them be this clueless is a major concern for me. They volunteer at soup kitchens and other places in the community for this reason. Expecting someone to work for college tuition and expenses is not neglect. I grew up like you did but not as oblivious.

So here's the thing, I also volunteered at soup kitchens, etc. while growing up, but it always seemed so separate from my reality. So yes, I knew that there were people who didn't go to private school, but that doesn't mean that I equated homeless people for whom I made sandwiches to the people that I'd be going to college with. I know looking back now that some of the kids at my school must have been getting financial aid, but it never occurred to me while I was there. Honestly, it never occurred to me that my parents were paying a lot for me to go to school. I knew that it cost money, but not how much, and not how much versus how much another private might be. Of course, I also graduated from high school in 1997, so the internet wasn't quite what it is now - I don't even know how I would have gone about finding out what other schools' tuitions were even if I had wanted to. So my point is, I knew that there were people who had less money than my family did (including people who were homeless), but that somehow didn't make me understand that there were people who couldn't afford to pay for college. Perhaps it's because what I saw were two extremes? I think it would have been more helpful to learn that kids on a local sports team needed a scholarship in order to be able to play on there or something, I don't know. I'm just saying that you should consider that exposing your children to homeless people isn't necessarily going to help them not be oblivious. I worry about the same thing with my own kids, so I am trying to be conscious of what I need to expose them to so that they don't get to college and find out that there is a lot more to the world than what they see on a daily basis at their private school.

Giving your comments about your husband, it sounds like you are still pretty clueless. Having to handover summer earnings to parents to pay for tuition and beginning of semester needing a part-time job in order to meet expenses is a normal occurrence among most college students. It was my experience as well. My parents were both highly educated, and we led a comfortable life, but it was not possible for them to put five kids through college without some help from us. I forked over my summer earnings every August, and looked for a part-time job within the first day or two of arriving on campus. This in no way impeding my ability to get a great education, or hampered my social life. It is just life. Normal life.

Are your children aware that most of their peers at their cut expensive colleges are on financial aid? Because no matter where they are, that is highly likely. Do they know that most of the students around them will have student loans to pay off after graduation, and therefore will have to budget for discretionary expenses?