S/O: Stop enabling men and blaming women for IL dynamics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of the thread this OP is talking about. Here's the thing about my brothers and their wives. The wives control everything. They make the choice about where to spend holidays. They decide what presents to give or not give. My brothers are clueless and while their marriages don't resemble mine (my DH actually does a good bit of the logistical day to day stuff and keeps our calendar), I know what family I have and what I'm working with.

I don't think we need to enable. But we need to recognize that some marriages have this dynamic and you just have to work with the people you are stuck with.

And here's the rub to my annoying situation. Do you think my brothers will care when I inevitably stop participating in gift exchanges for their kids? No. They probably won't notice. Their wives will. This is another annoying thing I am thinking through. Since these women are obviously the only people who give a crap (on their end) and are the people who make all of the choices that created my awkward situations, then yes, I am going to focus my ire on them. Because it's more productive than having yet another call with my clueless brother who's defensive.

You obviously don't like/respect your SILs. So why do you care what they think/do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP...you didn't get the memo. Women are the planners whether we want to be or not. We take on the psychic energy of the family and have to remember everything. Men can handle assignments, but they can't handle the planning of everything. God knows how/why they run most corporations.

Men run large corporations and countries because those things require big picture skills and a cooperative effort -- the same skills that allow men to not get offended by the small and imagined slights on which so many of the discussions on this site thrive. Rare is the woman who can run a large team without it collapsing under petty jealousies and real or imagined backstabbing, all of which is corrosive to large team-building. On the other hand, women tend to thrive in small team building and organization (the "planners", as you call them). As you point out, woman can handle "the planning of everything", but when the task requires large scale coordination and cooperation (think Ike planning D-Day) and significant obedience (think of the soldiers storming the beaches), well, then bring in men.

This is so ridiculous it's laughable. By far the pettiest people I've ever encountered in a workplace have all been men...though I assume this is also because there are just more of them in my line of work. And if you don't think women, who are by and large the default parents, demonstrate their ability to handle large scale coordination and cooperation you are trying hard no to look at how most of them run their lives. DH is a good manager/team leader, but I've been the one to come up with the majority of the ideas that have lead to big picture shifts on his team. I would say that day-to-day (and increasingly IME at work), it is actually the men who struggle with seeing the big picture, or, more to the point, the hundreds of strings that need to be pulled in order to make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of the thread this OP is talking about. Here's the thing about my brothers and their wives. The wives control everything. They make the choice about where to spend holidays. They decide what presents to give or not give. My brothers are clueless and while their marriages don't resemble mine (my DH actually does a good bit of the logistical day to day stuff and keeps our calendar), I know what family I have and what I'm working with.

I don't think we need to enable. But we need to recognize that some marriages have this dynamic and you just have to work with the people you are stuck with.

And here's the rub to my annoying situation. Do you think my brothers will care when I inevitably stop participating in gift exchanges for their kids? No. They probably won't notice. Their wives will. This is another annoying thing I am thinking through. Since these women are obviously the only people who give a crap (on their end) and are the people who make all of the choices that created my awkward situations, then yes, I am going to focus my ire on them. Because it's more productive than having yet another call with my clueless brother who's defensive.

You have no idea what goes on in another person's marriage. Just stop it. You are letting your brothers off the hook, because they are "controlled." It's the oldest excuse in the book. You are pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Whoever is doing the planning should do all the inviting.

[Anonymous]

This only works if you don't really like your ILs. I stopped all involvement regarding things involving FIL. My dh can go years before he remembers his own father's b-day, father's day, etc. Would I have done this with MIL? No way. Sadly, she has passed away, but I loved her dearly and made all the plans to see her (most of which dh took credit for, but whatever).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This only works if you don't really like your ILs. I stopped all involvement regarding things involving FIL. My dh can go years before he remembers his own father's b-day, father's day, etc. Would I have done this with MIL? No way. Sadly, she has passed away, but I loved her dearly and made all the plans to see her (most of which dh took credit for, but whatever).

No, this also work if you DO like your ILs (or like them "well enough") *and* your spouse has a good relationship with them. MIL complained to me that DH doesn't call her enough, so I told her, "That is between you and DH. Please talk to him directly. I am sure he'll want to know how you feel." So they had a talk about it, and now he makes a point to call her more. I'll throw him a bone--if I get off the phone with my parents, I'll say, "Have you talked to MIL lately?" And he appreciates the reminder. But it's on him.

MIL is a grown-up. DH is a grown-up. They can manage their relationship!

[Anonymous]

No way. I am *happy* to enable my husband. It means I see my MIL 4 times a year for about 2 hours each time. If he wants to see her more, he is welcome to plan it. He doesn't and that is on him.

[Anonymous]

We stopped gift giving with adults in my family and it is wonderful. No one needs more crap! Try it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real men take responsibility for roasting the dead critter at feast time. You get yourself some manly gear like an electric smoker or a turkey fryer and keep the women-folk away from this crucial man task. Anyone who cooks should be given relief from dishes, so it's a win-win.

Just learn to let your control-freak fears fade away, and let your hubby do whatever crazy recipe he wants to follow for his roasting.

Blech. "Real men"? "Manly gear"? "Women-folk"? "HUBBY"?!?!

I think you missed the humor gene.

Like most of DCUM and a good portion of DC.

[Anonymous]

Here are some funny links from urban baby - do you think NYC has the 'humor gene'?

http://www.urbanbaby.com/topics/55539745 http://www.urbanbaby.com/topics/55533942 http://www.urbanbaby.com/topics/55532341 http://www.urbanbaby.com/topics/55528221 http://www.urbanbaby.com/topics/55524383 http://www.urbanbaby.com/topics/55518655

[Anonymous]

I agree it's not the wife's job to maintain her husband's relationships and follow through on this stuff. I told my husband as much and he agrees. A little bit before Christmas and Mother's Day I ask him and my BIL what they've done for their mom and I leave it at that.

My BIL is a grown-ass man and doesn't need a birthday card. We call him and his partner and stepson. Period.

Newsflash to the ranks of the offended: my child doesn't notice when she hasn't gotten a gift from Aunt A or uncle B. She likes the gifts she gets and treats anything that comes in the mail as a bonus. These resentments and battles are an adults-only affair.

If you're fortunate to have all you need including toys and clothes for your kids then don't get worked up about whether other people buy things for you. Enjoy the time with them if you like them. Tolerate them at holidays if you don't.

Don't pretend this is about your kids. If they're looking for a present from Cousin Larla and are pissed when they don't get one you've got bigger problems than crappy in laws; you're raising a crappy kid.

[Anonymous]

Can someone link the thread that the OP is referencing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This only works if you don't really like your ILs. I stopped all involvement regarding things involving FIL. My dh can go years before he remembers his own father's b-day, father's day, etc. Would I have done this with MIL? No way. Sadly, she has passed away, but I loved her dearly and made all the plans to see her (most of which dh took credit for, but whatever).

+1! I could have written this, as MIL was adorable but FIL is the opposite. I don't know how she stayed married to him. DH definitely takes after MIL (may she RIP), but his sibs definitely take after FIL! When FIL imposed a time table on calls/visits, I said, "DH, he's your dad, you deal with him." Within months, they had a falling out. My hands are full with the kids and my relatives. If/when DH chooses to patch things up with FIL is up to them.

OP -- and everybody else -- the only answer for your sanity is to back off, stay out of the fray and let DH settle his relationships with members of his family of origin all by himself like a big boy (I'm guessing that all of these guys are over 35).

Focus on the kids and your relatives. That's enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree it's not the wife's job to maintain her husband's relationships and follow through on this stuff. I told my husband as much and he agrees. A little bit before Christmas and Mother's Day I ask him and my BIL what they've done for their mom and I leave it at that.

My BIL is a grown-ass man and doesn't need a birthday card. We call him and his partner and stepson. Period.

Newsflash to the ranks of the offended: my child doesn't notice when she hasn't gotten a gift from Aunt A or uncle B. She likes the gifts she gets and treats anything that comes in the mail as a bonus. These resentments and battles are an adults-only affair.

If you're fortunate to have all you need including toys and clothes for your kids then don't get worked up about whether other people buy things for you. Enjoy the time with them if you like them. Tolerate them at holidays if you don't.

Don't pretend this is about your kids. If they're looking for a present from Cousin Larla and are pissed when they don't get one you've got bigger problems than crappy in laws; you're raising a crappy kid.

In the original thread, the uncles were sending extravagant gifts to one child and nothing the other. In that situation, the kids would likely notice (especially since it was at Christmas time, not a neglected birthday).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op: How can we get men to cook and clean at holiday time, instead of the burden falling on us? Lobby for a ban on college sports and pro sports?

Your premise is so sexist and idiotic, that I can't help you.

Sit down before a holiday and communicate--make a plan, make a schedule, get on the same page. If your spouse or partner isn't open to this, then I feel bad for you.

Its also kind of unfair to dudes- my dad is hardly "new school", in fact he's so conservative it makes me cringe, but he's the head in his kitchen, there are a lot of dudes that are like this- we do have a kitchen TV for exactly these holidays!