I think my DD's teacher is gaslighting her....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your DD needs a neuropsych evaluation for ADHD. Better to find out what the issue is in third grade and get her supports like a 504 now rather than later.

Agree with PP about going to Stixrud. I would not bother with a developmental pediatrician for a 8/9 yo but just go directly to a neuropsych eval and get her some help.

Teachers are not always "tactful" when telling a parent that their child may have issues. Better to listen to the message about getting your child help than to get offended. Not sure there is a nice way of telling a parent this.

Not necessarily. Since the teacher has such a back handed approach with what the issue is, it may be that she is a control freak who is really bothered by the kid who needs prompts. If OP's DD is ADHD, she's signs of it well b/f now both at school and home. OP, focus on teaching your kid organizational skills. Work with the teacher to set goals that based on behavior, not "feelings." Then make the decision about the necessity of an evaluation.

This is third grade not preschool and by third grade, the kid shouldn't need prompts (all the time) to start a task, stay on task and finish the class assignment during class. Get some help now because the grade level expectations are only going to increase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your DD needs a neuropsych evaluation for ADHD. Better to find out what the issue is in third grade and get her supports like a 504 now rather than later.

Agree with PP about going to Stixrud. I would not bother with a developmental pediatrician for a 8/9 yo but just go directly to a neuropsych eval and get her some help.

Teachers are not always "tactful" when telling a parent that their child may have issues. Better to listen to the message about getting your child help than to get offended. Not sure there is a nice way of telling a parent this.

Not necessarily. Since the teacher has such a back handed approach with what the issue is, it may be that she is a control freak who is really bothered by the kid who needs prompts. If OP's DD is ADHD, she's signs of it well b/f now both at school and home. OP, focus on teaching your kid organizational skills. Work with the teacher to set goals that based on behavior, not "feelings." Then make the decision about the necessity of an evaluation.

This is third grade not preschool and by third grade, the kid shouldn't need prompts (all the time) to start a task, stay on task and finish the class assignment during class. Get some help now because the grade level expectations are only going to increase.

OP here. I do agree with this. At this point my concerns have been raised to a level that I feel we must rule out a diagnosis or get more formal help if she is formally diagnosed. I am still bothered by the discrepancy in how my DD reports her day and how the teacher relates to her. I happen to know that another child in this same class, an equally bright boy with no behavior issues was described to the parent as "frustrating" to teach. So I do know that although DD may indeed have issues they have definitely been aggravated by whatever is going on in the classroom this year. The one positive, and it is a big one (really maybe the most important) is that my DD still loves school. And I have to give credit to the teacher in ways for that as well. This teacher I believe is trying to be compassionate.

Anyway would someone please give recommendations for neuropsych in Mont co? I will search the archive but if anyone reads this and has a great recommendation I would really be grateful.

[Anonymous]

Dr. Inge in Dr. Black's office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our elementary school needed a few more students labeled LD or would lose a special ed teacher position. They went trolling.

STOP! That is not how it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your DD needs a neuropsych evaluation for ADHD. Better to find out what the issue is in third grade and get her supports like a 504 now rather than later.

Agree with PP about going to Stixrud. I would not bother with a developmental pediatrician for a 8/9 yo but just go directly to a neuropsych eval and get her some help.

Teachers are not always "tactful" when telling a parent that their child may have issues. Better to listen to the message about getting your child help than to get offended. Not sure there is a nice way of telling a parent this.

Not necessarily. Since the teacher has such a back handed approach with what the issue is, it may be that she is a control freak who is really bothered by the kid who needs prompts. If OP's DD is ADHD, she's signs of it well b/f now both at school and home. OP, focus on teaching your kid organizational skills. Work with the teacher to set goals that based on behavior, not "feelings." Then make the decision about the necessity of an evaluation.

This is third grade not preschool and by third grade, the kid shouldn't need prompts (all the time) to start a task, stay on task and finish the class assignment during class. Get some help now because the grade level expectations are only going to increase.

OP here. I do agree with this. At this point my concerns have been raised to a level that I feel we must rule out a diagnosis or get more formal help if she is formally diagnosed. I am still bothered by the discrepancy in how my DD reports her day and how the teacher relates to her. I happen to know that another child in this same class, an equally bright boy with no behavior issues was described to the parent as "frustrating" to teach. So I do know that although DD may indeed have issues they have definitely been aggravated by whatever is going on in the classroom this year. The one positive, and it is a big one (really maybe the most important) is that my DD still loves school. And I have to give credit to the teacher in ways for that as well. This teacher I believe is trying to be compassionate.

Anyway would someone please give recommendations for neuropsych in Mont co? I will search the archive but if anyone reads this and has a great recommendation I would really be grateful.

You describe a situation really similar to the one we faced this year with a teacher. I really regret not facing it head-on sooner, but in a non-confrontational way. Describe the reasons that her communications are concerning, but at the same time, make clear that you are working with her as part of a team. Sometimes I think that there are people (including teachers) who just don't get why labeling someone as "frustrating" or "stressed" is counterproductive. I think these teachers may not understand that they are in a position of trust and authority, and as such, their labeling can really have a big psychological impact on kids and teachers. At the same time they may have their very strong points as teachers. So I'd say the sooner you can have a good, friendly conversation with her about this, the better.

Another thing I really didn't understand is how little support teachers have in this area. I just assumed they'd have training in how to deal with kids who had emerging learning or behavioral issues, and that there were readily accessible forms of classroom support for them short of going the full-on IEP route (which could take the whole school year anyway!) What I learned is that teachers may just be going it alone, worried about your kid and 25 others, but with few resources to deal with it. So the more you can communicate that you understand this, and put resources into place yourself, the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our elementary school needed a few more students labeled LD or would lose a special ed teacher position. They went trolling.

STOP! That is not how it works.

How do you know? I find it perfectly plausible.

[Anonymous]

I think the teacher is stressed by your daughter's behavior, and possibly would like your daughter to be stressed by it too (projecting, and being passive-aggressive).

Not perceiving her struggles as a problem seems good for your daughter's mental health, but bad for any prognosis that doesn't include intervention since she doesn't really care.

[Anonymous]

OP, it's really important you document these comments, whether or not they are "gaslighting" or the teacher's attempts to point out "real" problems.

As a parent with kids who are bright but have had to deal with LDs, ADHD and/or medical disabilities over the years, we have had teachers make similar (and worse) comments. Teachers have called DCs "lazy" "disobedient" "unable to follow directions", "needs redirection" "procrastinating", "faking it," "too emotional/sensitive" "too much work for me" or pulled out for various "behavioral issues" etc.

It's important to document these kinds of incidents, and the best way is with a polite but immediate email restating what your child reported the teacher said and asking for more information from the teacher. For example, "DD told me today that you told her that she had a "hard day" in class today. DD is confused because she thought she was doing fine in class today. Can you please let me know what happened? Thanks so much! DD's Mom"

IME, you get one of several kinds of responses back -- 1) no response or 2) I never said that or 3) I said that but didn't mean it to sound mean or critical or 4) I said it and meant it here is what your child was doing wrong, i.e. I had to ask your DD to return to task 3 times in 10 minutes, or DD had to be prompted to start task 3 times, etc. or 5) I said it and meant it, here is what your child is doing wrong (but the description makes it clear that the teacher is wrong or out of line).

The reason why it's important to document is that if the teacher is behaving inappropriately, you need documentation to stop it. A series of emails documenting the inappropriate comments can then be forwarded to a supervisor to intervene and stop the teacher bullying. If the feedback is an accurate reflection of the fact that your child is struggling in class, you will need the documentation anyway to show what kind of difficulties DD is having and that the teacher and student need more support. These kinds of emails will become your proof of the "adverse impact on education" that is required to get either a 504 or an IEP. Nothing documents "adverse educational impact" better than a written record of the teacher's own complaints/words.

IME, teachers who are bullying or gaslighting tend to not realize that the emails that the parent is sending are a form of record and thus fail to realize the kind of warning they present. These teachers tend to repeat this kind of bullying/gaslighting behavior, because it's a fundamental part of how they see students (i.e. it's a reflection of the discrimination against kids with disabilities) and a fundamental part of how they manage all students in a classroom (through fear and criticism). One email asking about one particular incident doesn't tend to stop this behavior, but several emails together forwarded to a principal or a special ed supervisor can bring outside supervisors to bear to change the behavior. In the beginning, the teacher can be retaliatory, but consistently documenting the retaliation and raising it to the attention of supervisors eventually ends it, IME.

This technique is also valuable for those situations in which a teacher is failing or refusing to provide accommodations listed on a 504 or IEP.

Other PPs have suggested outside observation. That is a good idea, but you also need to be documenting. One observation won't be enough to establish "adverse educational impact". Give the documentation to whomever you hire for observation, so they know what to look for.

Also, it's really important to do an neuropsych assessment so you can objectively rule out other possible reasons for inattention -- for example, one of my DCs has a receptive and expressive language disorder. That DC can take a long time to respond verbally, can have difficulty with written directions, and once responding can have word-finding difficulty that makes DC appear of task. All of these can be perceived by the teacher as inattention, but the real problem is language. Another DC is very bright and what seems to be inattention is complete and utter boredom. (Imagine if you read on a college level but had to listen to Cat in the Hat all day. Your mind would start to wander and the teacher would think you have an attention problem.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our elementary school needed a few more students labeled LD or would lose a special ed teacher position. They went trolling.

STOP! That is not how it works.

Um... That's EXACTLY how it works in some schools. Maybe not yours. Be grateful.

[Anonymous]

I would do as above said, but observation from someone outside the school system to be objective. My experience has been, once you question DCPS or they feel you are defensive at all to their assessment, they join to prove they are correct.

[Anonymous]

I'm not a teacher but I'm a nanny. I always tend to chuckle a little when parents describe their children to me. Larlo is a little shy, he loves to give hugs and you will just adore him. Larla is spunky and can be difficult. Almost always the parents are completely wrong. The easy child turns into satan on steroids and the difficult child is a true gem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, a teacher can definitely "gaslight" in this way, whether or not they intend to. While you should definitely be objective about whether your daughter needs additional assistance, there ARE certain teachers who project or create problems in order to put kids into certain categories in their minds.

I think I'd definitely have a conversation with the teacher about the disconnect between what she says, and what your daughter says, and what you observe.

One goal of this conversation would be to focus on FACTS and not on subjectives like "you had a hard day." Especially since this teacher is, as you say, disorganized, you will have to really push her to identify the specific problems and the specific things to work on.

This 100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a teacher but I'm a nanny. I always tend to chuckle a little when parents describe their children to me. Larlo is a little shy, he loves to give hugs and you will just adore him. Larla is spunky and can be difficult. Almost always the parents are completely wrong. The easy child turns into satan on steroids and the difficult child is a true gem.

I don't think anybody asked you