Sibling expects me to pay for nursing home.

[Anonymous]

OP, my mom took care of my grandmother with dementia (among other thing) until she died a month ago. It was NON STOP. No break at night or during the day. My grandmother didn't have a clear night and day and would be awake for hours during the night and nap during the day. She could not go to the bathroom but in her mind, she did not need diapers. Sometimes 10-12 times/day she would pull the diaper off and urinate or defecate all over the house. On especially bad days she had no idea where she was, or who was caring for her so she would yell for HOURS at a time about how she is being beaten (never was) or how she hates everyone. She needed feeding, bathing, dressing. Also, patients like that are often very mean and will. try to make their care taker's life miserable. Meaning, as soon as my mom tried to get some sleep my grandmother would start crying for water or how she wants to get up and walk.

So, $2000 stipend, quite frankly, doesn't even begin to cover it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the sister is home anyway, as per OP.

That doesn't mean she's literally home every second of the day. Dementia patients need constant supervision. Who is going to watch him while she goes grocery shopping, etc.?

Exactly, it's 24/7 every day of the week. It takes several people to care with someone with dementia.

[Anonymous]

OP sounds like a peach, dumping the burden on his or her sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a peach, dumping the burden on his or her sister.

Yup. Or like my sister, making suggestions that she has no intention of funding or handling the paperwork. OP has a superiority complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:jump on to this...my in laws are in PA. currently paying for their own nursing care. their assets will run out....as the sole provider in my household is there any way I could get stuck footing the bill for my MIL and FIL?!

Absolutely not, if they are in a nursing home, apply for the special nursing home medicaid. They will take their social security and leave them $75 a month each, so you just supplement their needs. We have been through this. No, you do not foot the bill.

You won't get stuck footing the bill for your MIL and FIL IF you ensure they apply for Medicaid. If they somehow mess up on the Medicaid process due to the strict parental fillial laws there is a possibility you will get stuck with the bill. The nursing home will go for whoever they think they can get the money from. It is your responsibility that they don't mess up the paperwork or the onus is on you.

When you sign in your parent, they ask you to sign lots of forms. One was financial. We told them my MIL was an adult and we were not financially responsible. They argued with us and I said I'd have my lawyer look it over to verify what they are saying. I never signed it. They send us bills in my name and my husband's. We do not pay them and told them to stop as we are not paying. They legally cannot bill us for services for someone else when we didn't sign a consent (nor is she my mother which makes it even more odd but I handle the daily care issues). Even if you don't apply for medicaid, then the hospital will have staff to do it or they need to make a plan for your parent before releasing them. If the other family members are gifted money, then they will be denied medicaid until that amount is repaid or made up I forget how. You will only be stuck with the bill if you consent. So, read paperwork carefully.

You sound terrible.

[Anonymous]

The poster who lives in PA should probably consult an elder care lawyer as PA has what is starting to be one of the most draconian fillial piety laws in the US

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/2014/10/26/Elder-Law-A-new-twist-on-filial-responsibility-in-Pennsylvania/stories/201410260034

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-04-05/business/bs-bz-filial-support-20130401_1_care-facility-laws-filial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:jump on to this...my in laws are in PA. currently paying for their own nursing care. their assets will run out....as the sole provider in my household is there any way I could get stuck footing the bill for my MIL and FIL?!

Absolutely not, if they are in a nursing home, apply for the special nursing home medicaid. They will take their social security and leave them $75 a month each, so you just supplement their needs. We have been through this. No, you do not foot the bill.

You won't get stuck footing the bill for your MIL and FIL IF you ensure they apply for Medicaid. If they somehow mess up on the Medicaid process due to the strict parental fillial laws there is a possibility you will get stuck with the bill. The nursing home will go for whoever they think they can get the money from. It is your responsibility that they don't mess up the paperwork or the onus is on you.

When you sign in your parent, they ask you to sign lots of forms. One was financial. We told them my MIL was an adult and we were not financially responsible. They argued with us and I said I'd have my lawyer look it over to verify what they are saying. I never signed it. They send us bills in my name and my husband's. We do not pay them and told them to stop as we are not paying. They legally cannot bill us for services for someone else when we didn't sign a consent (nor is she my mother which makes it even more odd but I handle the daily care issues). Even if you don't apply for medicaid, then the hospital will have staff to do it or they need to make a plan for your parent before releasing them. If the other family members are gifted money, then they will be denied medicaid until that amount is repaid or made up I forget how. You will only be stuck with the bill if you consent. So, read paperwork carefully.

You sound terrible.

This is confusing to me. So, who is paying the bill? Medicaid? Why were they asking you to pay in the first place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The poster who lives in PA should probably consult an elder care lawyer as PA has what is starting to be one of the most draconian fillial piety laws in the US

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/2014/10/26/Elder-Law-A-new-twist-on-filial-responsibility-in-Pennsylvania/stories/201410260034

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-04-05/business/bs-bz-filial-support-20130401_1_care-facility-laws-filial

+1. My parents in PA recently dealt with this with my grandmother, who passed away with no assets and many debts while her Medicaid application was pending. It ended up being ok, as her application was approved and all of the debts ultimately were satisfied without the home seeking recourse from my parents. But if you are concerned you should talk to an attorney in Pennsylvania about what your risk may be. I am a lawyer, although not an elder care lawyer, and my understanding of the PA filial piety statute is that a facility can sue you to satisfy your parents' bills, regardless of whether you signed anything, whether your parent applied for or was approved for Medicaid coverage, or whether there are other sources of income that could be used to satisfy the debt (i.e., a new spouse, other siblings, etc).

[Anonymous]

Hi op, I am a nurse who first started out working at a nursing home dealing with residents with dementia. I was on the "dementia unit". I am going to try not to make any assumptions about what's going On, but will say, PLEASE don't let your dad suffer because of issues between you and your sister. We had a few heart breaking residents who had issues because the person at home wasn't able to properly care for them

1. If your dad has mild dementia, hypothetically your dad could live with your sister provided a support system is put in place. Hiring a home health aide is a necessity. There are also caregiving classes for those caring with dementia patients. AARP and local senior centers should be able to provide info on this. If your sister feels she cannot handle it, then she CANNOT handle it. Often times taking care of someone with dementia is lIke taking care of a 2 year old who can have violent mood swings and is heavier and bigger than you are. It's not easy when they are in a violent mood because they need to get cleaned up after having a poop and they have 80 pounds on you. Not to mention the complicated aspect of role reversal.

2. If your dad is past the point of mild dementia, option wasn't isn't an option. It's just not possible. Many PPs have given you excellent suggestions On how to help find funding for a nursing home

I'm sorry you are in this situation. But think of what is best for your dad. Dementia patients have surprising moments of complEte lucidity and clarity and my heart broke many times by how sad many of them were due to family situations.

Plus, the more stressed out and overwhelmed your sister gets, the more likely it is that Your dad could have an accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:jump on to this...my in laws are in PA. currently paying for their own nursing care. their assets will run out....as the sole provider in my household is there any way I could get stuck footing the bill for my MIL and FIL?!

Absolutely not, if they are in a nursing home, apply for the special nursing home medicaid. They will take their social security and leave them $75 a month each, so you just supplement their needs. We have been through this. No, you do not foot the bill.

You won't get stuck footing the bill for your MIL and FIL IF you ensure they apply for Medicaid. If they somehow mess up on the Medicaid process due to the strict parental fillial laws there is a possibility you will get stuck with the bill. The nursing home will go for whoever they think they can get the money from. It is your responsibility that they don't mess up the paperwork or the onus is on you.

NOT TRUE!
1) it is not a given that the nursing home will come after you due to filial support laws

2) Applying for Medicaid is not a guarantee that it will be awarded -- even if your parent is dead broke

3) DO NOT EVER PUT YOUR NAME ON ANYTHING -- EVER!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:jump on to this...my in laws are in PA. currently paying for their own nursing care. their assets will run out....as the sole provider in my household is there any way I could get stuck footing the bill for my MIL and FIL?!

Absolutely not, if they are in a nursing home, apply for the special nursing home medicaid. They will take their social security and leave them $75 a month each, so you just supplement their needs. We have been through this. No, you do not foot the bill.

You won't get stuck footing the bill for your MIL and FIL IF you ensure they apply for Medicaid. If they somehow mess up on the Medicaid process due to the strict parental fillial laws there is a possibility you will get stuck with the bill. The nursing home will go for whoever they think they can get the money from. It is your responsibility that they don't mess up the paperwork or the onus is on you.

NOT TRUE!
1) it is not a given that the nursing home will come after you due to filial support laws

2) Applying for Medicaid is not a guarantee that it will be awarded -- even if your parent is dead broke

3) DO NOT EVER PUT YOUR NAME ON ANYTHING -- EVER!

- There's a high risk if you live in PA

- No there's no guarantee it will be awarded. However, if Medicaid falls through your risk shoots up. So its at least on you to make sure your parents apply for Medicaid properly.

- I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:jump on to this...my in laws are in PA. currently paying for their own nursing care. their assets will run out....as the sole provider in my household is there any way I could get stuck footing the bill for my MIL and FIL?!

Absolutely not, if they are in a nursing home, apply for the special nursing home medicaid. They will take their social security and leave them $75 a month each, so you just supplement their needs. We have been through this. No, you do not foot the bill.

You won't get stuck footing the bill for your MIL and FIL IF you ensure they apply for Medicaid. If they somehow mess up on the Medicaid process due to the strict parental fillial laws there is a possibility you will get stuck with the bill. The nursing home will go for whoever they think they can get the money from. It is your responsibility that they don't mess up the paperwork or the onus is on you.

NOT TRUE!
1) it is not a given that the nursing home will come after you due to filial support laws

2) Applying for Medicaid is not a guarantee that it will be awarded -- even if your parent is dead broke

3) DO NOT EVER PUT YOUR NAME ON ANYTHING -- EVER!

- There's a high risk if you live in PA

- No there's no guarantee it will be awarded. However, if Medicaid falls through your risk shoots up. So its at least on you to make sure your parents apply for Medicaid properly.

- I agree.

PA has filial support laws this is true but, it's not necessarily a MUCH greater risk that they will sue you...BTDT in PA who passed away Medicaid pending and the application was TURNED DOWN...
nursing home left me alone...was not worth the trouble

[Anonymous]

Op here.

I volunteered to take him into my home and pay a nurse to care for him. As per my sister, she is available to take care of him. She didn't want me to take him so she assumed responsibility. Maybe I'm as asshole got this but she wanted to keep him from my care, so she can have him and care for him. If she can't, she should revisit letting him live with me. I could pay a nurse 1500 per week but I will not pay 7k for him to be in a home at my sisters insistence. She only wants him to be in her city and not here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here.

I volunteered to take him into my home and pay a nurse to care for him. As per my sister, she is available to take care of him. She didn't want me to take him so she assumed responsibility. Maybe I'm as asshole got this but she wanted to keep him from my care, so she can have him and care for him. If she can't, she should revisit letting him live with me. I could pay a nurse 1500 per week but I will not pay 7k for him to be in a home at my sisters insistence. She only wants him to be in her city and not here.

So let's recap. You are willing to pay 6-7k if he is in your house, but you don't want to pay 7k to put him in a home. So it's not the money at all, it's a who's in charge issue. Because it's annoying that she perceives she's in charge and you have to foot the bill. (I get that.) Also, she is probably annoyed that you perceive you can dictate unilaterally what will happen because you have the money when she's been the one there with him. You clearly have issues with your sister that need to be sorted out.

What is best for your dad? Forget about you and your sister for a minute and whatever long-standing issues you have with each other.

[Anonymous]

I would offer to pay for a lawyer to help your parent qualify for Medicaid.