Staying at a relative's kosher house when you are not kosher (with small kids)

[Anonymous]

The pp's are throwing around a lot of terms (dairy, paerve, etc.) that Op (not being Jewish or familiar with Kosher rules) may not understand. So I can see why she is reaching the conclusion that this may not work. I am Jewish but have never kept kosher but I have some relatives who keep kosher. Whenever anyone in the family had them over, we'd always serve a "dairy" meal. Op, in our family that meant serving lox and bagels and/or some kind of eggs. Your child could have milk, cheese and yogurt with that meal. The aunt could also make a pasta dish without meat and your son could have milk (the kosher experts could correct me if I'm wrong). We'd also often order cheese or vegetarian pizza with my kosher relatives (but again, my relatives may be less strict than others). But if your dh's aunt is very strict, I'm sure that she has her own pizza recipe or could order from a kosher restaurant. Finally, as one of the pp's said, fish (although not shellfish), is an option for meals.

[Anonymous]

Dairy = anything with a milk base. Cheese, yogurt, butter, cream etc

Parve = neither meat nor milk. Most often eggs and fish.

Meat-- if you have to kill it to eat it except fish which is parve

The main items fall into these 3 categories. But things change based on preparation. Noodles with butter are dairy. Noodles with margarine are parve. It's not just the specific item but how the food is prepared.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm wondering if maybe there are other reasons why you do not want to stay at Aunt's house? You seem to be pushing really hard on this thing about milk with dinner, because it is veiled as a "best interests of the child" argument. But I and a lot of other PPs don't follow you. You clearly have not done the research to understand what kosher means, but you FIRMLY believe that it would be wholly unworkable. You assume that your child will not be able to EVER have milk with a meal and that as a result your child will STARVE. There are so many logical leaps there that it is comical.

Maybe you would like this trip to be a bit of a vacation for your family, and you would rather not spend it as a guest in a little-known relative's house? Maybe you really would rather not go on this trip at all? Maybe Aunt Kosher slighted you at your wedding by wearing the same dress as the bridesmaids and giving you a $4 sandwich maker as a gift. I dunno, but there is something more underneath this...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But can my 4 yo drink milk with dinner if the Aunt is serving pot roast, for example?

The aunt KNOWS you do not keep kosher, so I'm sure she'll manage this fine. Would your child eat pot roast in the first place?

No, she wouldn't eat pot roast. I just don't know if a glass of milk is even allowed at the table when pot roast is being served. I am totally clueless. I just know that dairy and meat together is a no-no.

No, at my grandmother's it would not. 3-4 hour separation between the meat and the dairy. My kosher grandparents would not let us (non kosher people) touch any utensils, pots, food, etc. because we would contaminate it for them. But it depends on the person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But can my 4 yo drink milk with dinner if the Aunt is serving pot roast, for example?

The aunt KNOWS you do not keep kosher, so I'm sure she'll manage this fine. Would your child eat pot roast in the first place?

No, she wouldn't eat pot roast. I just don't know if a glass of milk is even allowed at the table when pot roast is being served. I am totally clueless. I just know that dairy and meat together is a no-no.

No, at my grandmother's it would not. 3-4 hour separation between the meat and the dairy. My kosher grandparents would not let us (non kosher people) touch any utensils, pots, food, etc. because we would contaminate it for them. But it depends on the person.

[Anonymous]

Just call the aunt and ask for...say you are clueless and want to make sure there are no problems.

[Anonymous]

It will be fine. Just eat what they serve, I'm sure it will be well balanced.

I imagine you will have several meals out and can order whatever you want when not dining in their house. Offer to take the aunt out to lunch and/or dinners with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The key to staying in a kosher house when you're not kosher is to stay out of the kitchen. Ask for all the food you need/want so you don't screw up the dishes or the sinks. This is what my kosher friend taught me in high school. "Just let me do it."

Your kid does not need to drink milk with dinner. I'm Jewish, although not Kosher, and literally have NEVER in my entire life drank milk with dinner and I'm totally healthy.

What an awful attitude. I'm a different PP, but I think this attitude is wrong. Yes, the child does not HAVE to eat/drink dairy, but the child is acclimated to it. They are going to be in a new setting and new environment and often preschoolers don't adjust well without having some structure or familiarity. The child will want to have foods that they are accustomed to and if she is used to having dairy at all meals, cutting her off will be difficult. If that were the caveat, I would agree with OP that it would be better to stay in a hotel than in such an unwelcoming environment. I have no issue placing restrictions on the parents--they're adults and have to learn to be accommodating and polite. But this is a pre-schooler. In fact, a pre-schooler that some Jews would say would not have to keep Kosher (above the age of around 5 until the Bar/Bat Mitzvah, some say you should be teaching Kashrut, and slowly adapting, but not require children to adhere).

The key is to talk to the home-owner and ask them what their policies are, tell them about the requirement that the child have dairy and then work with them to come to a happy accommodation whether it be that the home-owner adapts the cooking or the family eats out while visiting. Everything can work as long as they are all willing to cooperate.

Very well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But can my 4 yo drink milk with dinner if the Aunt is serving pot roast, for example?

The aunt KNOWS you do not keep kosher, so I'm sure she'll manage this fine. Would your child eat pot roast in the first place?

No, she wouldn't eat pot roast. I just don't know if a glass of milk is even allowed at the table when pot roast is being served. I am totally clueless. I just know that dairy and meat together is a no-no.

No, at my grandmother's it would not. 3-4 hour separation between the meat and the dairy. My kosher grandparents would not let us (non kosher people) touch any utensils, pots, food, etc. because we would contaminate it for them. But it depends on the person.

I'm so glad my religion doesn't teach that a relative can contaminate something just by touching it. What an awful thing to teach and to believe in. This seems so devoid of love, so unnecessarily strict, so legalistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This is what I was afraid of. I am not remotely interested in taking away my child's milk cheese and yogurt in the interest of providing her with "culture." She's 4 and eats very little protein otherwise.

Sounds like I was right to push for a hotel.

You sound like a self centered person raising a self centered child.

It's good for kids to realize that other people do things differently than they do. Your child can eat his dinner (or not eat it, as he wishes) and have a glass of milk or a yogurt a few hours later. It's not that hard.

+1. Exactly

[Anonymous]

I would not stay with the Aunt if you or the husband has never stayed over and is familiar with her home, regardless of Kosher. I'd be scared my kid would break or touch something and everyone has different habits. Not everyone is kid friendly. I have a picky child and at that age ate a limited diet. He may try new things but if he doesn't like it no amount of forcing will make him eat it. I wouldn't want him to go all day without food or milk that are staples to his diet or he'd make everyone miserable. I am Jewish, and I don't know all the rules. Not everyone practices the same, so it would depend on how she does it. Some are only Kosher at home, others are Kosher everywhere. Some are more flexible with guests and kids, others are not. Some follow some rules and not others. I just would not be comfortable staying with a basic stranger and having food restrictions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But can my 4 yo drink milk with dinner if the Aunt is serving pot roast, for example?

The aunt KNOWS you do not keep kosher, so I'm sure she'll manage this fine. Would your child eat pot roast in the first place?

No, she wouldn't eat pot roast. I just don't know if a glass of milk is even allowed at the table when pot roast is being served. I am totally clueless. I just know that dairy and meat together is a no-no.

No, at my grandmother's it would not. 3-4 hour separation between the meat and the dairy. My kosher grandparents would not let us (non kosher people) touch any utensils, pots, food, etc. because we would contaminate it for them. But it depends on the person.

I'm so glad my religion doesn't teach that a relative can contaminate something just by touching it. What an awful thing to teach and to believe in. This seems so devoid of love, so unnecessarily strict, so legalistic.

What religion are you, PP? If you affiliate with one of the "major" religions, I can 100% guarantee you it includes its share of awful, loveless teachings. Maybe you aren't that devout, but then again neither are most Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But can my 4 yo drink milk with dinner if the Aunt is serving pot roast, for example?

The aunt KNOWS you do not keep kosher, so I'm sure she'll manage this fine. Would your child eat pot roast in the first place?

No, she wouldn't eat pot roast. I just don't know if a glass of milk is even allowed at the table when pot roast is being served. I am totally clueless. I just know that dairy and meat together is a no-no.

No, at my grandmother's it would not. 3-4 hour separation between the meat and the dairy. My kosher grandparents would not let us (non kosher people) touch any utensils, pots, food, etc. because we would contaminate it for them. But it depends on the person.

I'm so glad my religion doesn't teach that a relative can contaminate something just by touching it. What an awful thing to teach and to believe in. This seems so devoid of love, so unnecessarily strict, so legalistic.

What religion are you, PP? If you affiliate with one of the "major" religions, I can 100% guarantee you it includes its share of awful, loveless teachings. Maybe you aren't that devout, but then again neither are most Jews.

I am a Neo-Pagan, formerly Catholic. I never heard anything that harsh even as a Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Are there other reasons you don't want to stay with your husband's aunt, beyond dietary concerns?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But can my 4 yo drink milk with dinner if the Aunt is serving pot roast, for example?

The aunt KNOWS you do not keep kosher, so I'm sure she'll manage this fine. Would your child eat pot roast in the first place?

No, she wouldn't eat pot roast. I just don't know if a glass of milk is even allowed at the table when pot roast is being served. I am totally clueless. I just know that dairy and meat together is a no-no.

No, at my grandmother's it would not. 3-4 hour separation between the meat and the dairy. My kosher grandparents would not let us (non kosher people) touch any utensils, pots, food, etc. because we would contaminate it for them. But it depends on the person.

I'm so glad my religion doesn't teach that a relative can contaminate something just by touching it. What an awful thing to teach and to believe in. This seems so devoid of love, so unnecessarily strict, so legalistic.

What religion are you, PP? If you affiliate with one of the "major" religions, I can 100% guarantee you it includes its share of awful, loveless teachings. Maybe you aren't that devout, but then again neither are most Jews.

I am a Neo-Pagan, formerly Catholic. I never heard anything that harsh even as a Catholic.

You never heard of the inquisition?

In any case, there is nothing in kashrut about "non-kosher people." Anyone who has ever been to a kosher restaurant has seen non-Jews working there. PP is exaggerating, mis-remembering or her grandparents were nuts.