Daughter not fitting into Girl Scout troop

[Anonymous]

So if you were a GS leader, how would you handle this situation? I'm a Scout leader of 5th grade girls and I can already see this dynamic happening. We have some girls who just gravitate towards each other, but can end up excluding other girls. I don't know why they are excluding certain girls but I presume it has to do with their perceived coolness or whatever. When they were in second or third grade they would respond to "Remember we are sisters to every Girl Scout" but they are older now and more socially savvy. If I have to step in and remind them to be kind to Mary, that is singling Mary out as someone who is in need of help.

Of course we try to mix the girls up unobtrusively as much as possible, but it doesn't seem to be building friendships. If Sophie and Meghan are best friends and don't really get along with Mary, making them work with her isn't necessarily going to make them get along better.

I'm not exactly trained in all this social dynamic stuff. I'm a volunteer, my troop has 16 girls, and we only meet for about 3 hours a month! I hate to think girls will drop out because I was unable to manage the cliques, but if all we do is talk about girls feelings and not being left out, we'll never get anything done. And anyway I'm to convinced that talking about things will change anything.

Any ideas? You moms who pulled girls out of Scouts due to cliques... what would you have done differently had you been the volunteer leader? How much time would it have taken?

[Anonymous]

"Any ideas? You moms who pulled girls out of Scouts due to cliques... what would you have done differently had you been the volunteer leader? How much time would it have taken? "

The leader's daughter was the biggest bitch in the clique, so there was nothing I could do about it, but permit DD to quit Scouts at the end of the year.

You need some leadership training.

[Anonymous]

Ditch it. Life is too short

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if you were a GS leader, how would you handle this situation? I'm a Scout leader of 5th grade girls and I can already see this dynamic happening. We have some girls who just gravitate towards each other, but can end up excluding other girls. I don't know why they are excluding certain girls but I presume it has to do with their perceived coolness or whatever. When they were in second or third grade they would respond to "Remember we are sisters to every Girl Scout" but they are older now and more socially savvy. If I have to step in and remind them to be kind to Mary, that is singling Mary out as someone who is in need of help.

Of course we try to mix the girls up unobtrusively as much as possible, but it doesn't seem to be building friendships. If Sophie and Meghan are best friends and don't really get along with Mary, making them work with her isn't necessarily going to make them get along better.

I'm not exactly trained in all this social dynamic stuff. I'm a volunteer, my troop has 16 girls, and we only meet for about 3 hours a month! I hate to think girls will drop out because I was unable to manage the cliques, but if all we do is talk about girls feelings and not being left out, we'll never get anything done. And anyway I'm to convinced that talking about things will change anything.

Any ideas? You moms who pulled girls out of Scouts due to cliques... what would you have done differently had you been the volunteer leader? How much time would it have taken?

You have to call it out, have a session where you discuss it and then organize activities using neutral grouping- numbers out of hat ect. You can't solve it all but you can make sure you don't support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Any ideas? You moms who pulled girls out of Scouts due to cliques... what would you have done differently had you been the volunteer leader? How much time would it have taken? "

The leader's daughter was the biggest bitch in the clique, so there was nothing I could do about it, but permit DD to quit Scouts at the end of the year.

You need some leadership training.

Well, I'm a volunteer, of course. I HAVE taken a lot of training, but it was things like outdoor camping skills, canoeing, ropes course type activities. Also First Aid. I'm not really sure what Leadership Training activities will help me be better skilled at helping preteens and young teens not be clique-y, though. It's really complex. Maybe Girl Scout leaders should take guidance counsellor type training? Would you recommend that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You have to call it out, have a session where you discuss it and then organize activities using neutral grouping- numbers out of hat, etc. You can't solve it all but you can make sure you don't support it.

I'm really worried about causing more drama by calling it out, though. I'm worried about embarrassing "Mary" by pointing out in public that the other girls are ignoring her. I'm pretty sure that the girls will say something like "We aren't! Here Mary come join out group" but behind their backs will be rolling their eyes at me, and at "Mary".

We certainly do organize activities using "equity sticks" (I got that from a leader training) and counting off and such, but while that seemed to work when the girls were younger, now that they are 10 and turning 11 it isn't helping much with the girls wanting to do everything just with their friends.

[Anonymous]

Some good ideas for 4th and 5th grade GS are here -- don't know how well they'd work for the Cadette crowd though:

Promoting Harmony & “Sisterliness”

Girls this age will often establish cliques within the troop that can lead to exclusion of some girls and
hurt feelings. Here are some ways to build ‘sisterliness’ in your troop:

* Hold an open discussion on how a girl might feel if everyone else is paired up for an activity and
she hasn't been selected and what other girls can do to prevent this from happening.

* Talk about how Girl Scout principles (such as being a sister to every other Girl Scout) apply to
their own troop interactions.

* One-to-one discussion with individual girls and their parents/guardians (if situations can't be
resolved within the troop or between leaders and girls.)

* Rotating patrol members or work group members.

* Changing buddies frequently on long outings or overnights ("Now buddy up with someone
new!")

* Using various methods to group girls for carpools, small group activities, buddies, etc. Choose by
using splitter activities, such as alphabetical first names or last names, birth dates, shoe size,
drawing straws, number of legs in the household including pets, etc. so that different girls end
up together.

* Choosing secret sisters or secret pals. Draw names at the beginning of the year. Ask the girls to
be a special friend to that person by complimenting her, sitting by her, choosing her as their
helper, etc. Have the girls brainstorm other ways to make their Girl Scout sister feel special.
Possibly, have a small gift exchange with inexpensive, preferably handmade gifts exchanged on
Girl Scout holidays such as Founder’s Day (Juliette Low’s October 31 birthday) or the Girl Scout
birthday on March 12 to reveal secret sisters - or you could extend through the entire year.

* Specific reinforcement by leaders of desired behavior ("I'm glad to see that Susan and Maria
have teamed up today!"; "Shawna, thanks for helping Sam with her bracelet!")

* Inviting two high school aged Girl Scouts to come and talk to girls about their lasting friendships
within Girl Scouts even though their GS friends may go to different schools or they may not be
best friends at school (this is especially effective if the visiting girls have been together since
Daisies or Brownies!)

http://www.girlscoutsnorthernindiana-michiana.org/sites/default/files/file-attachments/Do-It-Yourself%20Learning/working_with_juniors.pdf

[Anonymous]

There are probably council programs you can use for a general program. I would check.

Also consider sending a email to parents asking them to encourage their children to be inclusive. It is unlikely you can completely stop the sorting, but kids need the messaging from adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if you were a GS leader, how would you handle this situation? I'm a Scout leader of 5th grade girls and I can already see this dynamic happening. We have some girls who just gravitate towards each other, but can end up excluding other girls. I don't know why they are excluding certain girls but I presume it has to do with their perceived coolness or whatever. When they were in second or third grade they would respond to "Remember we are sisters to every Girl Scout" but they are older now and more socially savvy. If I have to step in and remind them to be kind to Mary, that is singling Mary out as someone who is in need of help.

Of course we try to mix the girls up unobtrusively as much as possible, but it doesn't seem to be building friendships. If Sophie and Meghan are best friends and don't really get along with Mary, making them work with her isn't necessarily going to make them get along better.

I'm not exactly trained in all this social dynamic stuff. I'm a volunteer, my troop has 16 girls, and we only meet for about 3 hours a month! I hate to think girls will drop out because I was unable to manage the cliques, but if all we do is talk about girls feelings and not being left out, we'll never get anything done. And anyway I'm to convinced that talking about things will change anything.

Any ideas? You moms who pulled girls out of Scouts due to cliques... what would you have done differently had you been the volunteer leader? How much time would it have taken?

You could start by discouraging certain phrases : we known each other since K, shes my bff, we are neighbors and do everything together, out parents are sorority sisters, and so on. It is the GS, not a reunion.

[Anonymous]

Scout Leader ~ that was a very thoughtful and sincere request for advice. I think it was a great post.

That said, I'm not sure what you can do. You can't make people be friends, You can't make people like each other. I contend you should not. Fine tuning one's radar re: people and relationships is something I actually try NOT to discourage w/my kids. I've thought they have good instincts and I don't want to interfere with that. But I also don't think they would be cruel or exclude anyone unnecessarily. And I'm guessing that all kids in a scout troop are going to be reasonable, rule-following young people generally.

I just think scouts is a model that doesn't really work.

A team, on the other hand, everyone has to work together for the good of the team, regardless of interpersonal relationships - or they're off the team or don't make the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if you were a GS leader, how would you handle this situation?

I wouldn't. Parents today teach their kids to favor popularity over inclusivity at all costs. Unless you can find girls from the few families that buck this trend, you will be banging your head against the wall.

We are one of those who pulled our DD out due to the hypocrisy that started at the leader level. You sound like a conscientious leader, PP, and I hope you end up with a worthy troop.

[Anonymous]

drop out OP. It's not worth your dd feeling bad and alone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if you were a GS leader, how would you handle this situation? I'm a Scout leader of 5th grade girls and I can already see this dynamic happening. We have some girls who just gravitate towards each other, but can end up excluding other girls. I don't know why they are excluding certain girls but I presume it has to do with their perceived coolness or whatever. When they were in second or third grade they would respond to "Remember we are sisters to every Girl Scout" but they are older now and more socially savvy. If I have to step in and remind them to be kind to Mary, that is singling Mary out as someone who is in need of help.

Of course we try to mix the girls up unobtrusively as much as possible, but it doesn't seem to be building friendships. If Sophie and Meghan are best friends and don't really get along with Mary, making them work with her isn't necessarily going to make them get along better.

I'm not exactly trained in all this social dynamic stuff. I'm a volunteer, my troop has 16 girls, and we only meet for about 3 hours a month! I hate to think girls will drop out because I was unable to manage the cliques, but if all we do is talk about girls feelings and not being left out, we'll never get anything done. And anyway I'm to convinced that talking about things will change anything.

Any ideas? You moms who pulled girls out of Scouts due to cliques... what would you have done differently had you been the volunteer leader? How much time would it have taken?

Can you meet more frequently or do more activities together as a troop? It's tough to form a good group dynamic if you are not together as a group very often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Scout Leader ~ that was a very thoughtful and sincere request for advice. I think it was a great post.

That said, I'm not sure what you can do. You can't make people be friends, You can't make people like each other. I contend you should not. Fine tuning one's radar re: people and relationships is something I actually try NOT to discourage w/my kids. I've thought they have good instincts and I don't want to interfere with that. But I also don't think they would be cruel or exclude anyone unnecessarily. And I'm guessing that all kids in a scout troop are going to be reasonable, rule-following young people generally.

I just think scouts is a model that doesn't really work.

A team, on the other hand, everyone has to work together for the good of the team, regardless of interpersonal relationships - or they're off the team or don't make the team.

Teams, though, don't encourage tolerance for those who are less skilled or still learning. In a competitive situation, the less competent kids are expendable. That's not terribly good messaging either, IMHO.

FWIW, I had a VERY positive scouting experience. For starters, our troop leader was not a parent. And she never lectured us about being inclusive. But when she organized small group activities (or things like special dinners where we were divided among several tables according to astrological sign, or camping trips where she determined tent assignments), she broke us out of whatever groups we might form ourselves. And if she felt like someone was being excluded, she'd give them extra attention -- make them a helper, give them some sort of job that made them feel valued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Can you meet more frequently or do more activities together as a troop? It's tough to form a good group dynamic if you are not together as a group very often.

No, everyone is so busy with other activities that 2x a month is all we can manage. We do about 1 activity per month on the weekends as well.