Daughter not fitting into Girl Scout troop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Scout Leader ~ that was a very thoughtful and sincere request for advice. I think it was a great post.

That said, I'm not sure what you can do. You can't make people be friends, You can't make people like each other. I contend you should not. Fine tuning one's radar re: people and relationships is something I actually try NOT to discourage w/my kids. I've thought they have good instincts and I don't want to interfere with that. But I also don't think they would be cruel or exclude anyone unnecessarily. And I'm guessing that all kids in a scout troop are going to be reasonable, rule-following young people generally.

I just think scouts is a model that doesn't really work.

A team, on the other hand, everyone has to work together for the good of the team, regardless of interpersonal relationships - or they're off the team or don't make the team.

+1 Seems a bit outdated for this urban area. The leadership (GSCNCA) --DC area -- is just not strong enough. There is not that much interest in doing the right thing. Much more of a lower ES school movement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scout Leader ~ that was a very thoughtful and sincere request for advice. I think it was a great post.

That said, I'm not sure what you can do. You can't make people be friends, You can't make people like each other. I contend you should not. Fine tuning one's radar re: people and relationships is something I actually try NOT to discourage w/my kids. I've thought they have good instincts and I don't want to interfere with that. But I also don't think they would be cruel or exclude anyone unnecessarily. And I'm guessing that all kids in a scout troop are going to be reasonable, rule-following young people generally.

I just think scouts is a model that doesn't really work.

A team, on the other hand, everyone has to work together for the good of the team, regardless of interpersonal relationships - or they're off the team or don't make the team.

Teams, though, don't encourage tolerance for those who are less skilled or still learning. In a competitive situation, the less competent kids are expendable. That's not terribly good messaging either, IMHO.

FWIW, I had a VERY positive scouting experience. For starters, our troop leader was not a parent. And she never lectured us about being inclusive. But when she organized small group activities (or things like special dinners where we were divided among several tables according to astrological sign, or camping trips where she determined tent assignments), she broke us out of whatever groups we might form ourselves. And if she felt like someone was being excluded, she'd give them extra attention -- make them a helper, give them some sort of job that made them feel valued.

This is huge. My troop leader when I was a kid wasn't a parent, either (neither was my basketball coach or my art camp teacher). It made all the difference in the world. But that generation is gone, and the boomers aren't interested in taking their place.

[Anonymous]

As a leader this is REALLY hard. I have a middle school troop and I have always mixed the girls up. No one ever chooses their partners for an activity. That helps a little. This year we have tried to have more structure and activities and less time for "socializing". I have given more "homework" this year then ever. This has given the girls the chance to work on projects individually and then present them to the whole group instead of working in small groups.

Only you know how the troop leader is and if she would be open to helping you with the issue. I know I would be but I also know other leaders who would be clueless. If your troop leader is part of the problem, or not willing to be part of the solution, then see if you can reach out to the Service Unit Manager. I call ours the Leaders' leader. The SU Mngr oversees all of the troops in your area and may be able to match you up with another troop that would be a better fit for your daughter. If, as a parent, you were willing to be involved (help on trips or be cookie mon) many leaders of middle school troops would welcome you with open arms.

Also look into teen scouts on the GSCNC website. There are tons of activities that you can do with other scouts even if the rest of your troop is not going. If your daughter signs up for a few events she will likely meet other scouts that she fits in with and might be able to find a troop with more like minded girls.

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

This is happening to my daughter as well. I really want to pull her out of the troop but she doesn't want to. It is painful to watch and based on my perceptions of how the moms are and the other girls - I have zero hope that it would or could change. Out of 5 girls, 3 have become "BFFs". One is sort of a floater but she is not excluded. My daughter is clearly excluded, but at school, she eats lunch every other day with two of the BFFs (the third BFF hates my daughter and talks badly about her).
I think my daughter doesn't want to leave the troop because she's afraid she wouldn't have the girls to sit by during lunch?
My tolerance is decreasing and pretty soon I'm going to just insist she stop going to the meetings which have turned into social playdates with the three BFFs anyway. If this is how girl scouts as an organization is run, it's a joke. I brought this to the attention of the council and they offered to find my daughter another troop but it was affiliated with another school (other troops were full). That does not promote social inclusiveness in middle school doing all extracurricular activities in other districts. Sorry for my less than professionally written post, I'm clearly at my wits end. The moms are just as bad as the girls IMO.

[Anonymous]

I am a Lifetime Girl Scout. I have seen this happen. It is a good organization when leaders are able to align with the mission and prevent this kind of thing. Your daughter can switch troops if she wants to.

I would ask her how it is going compared to other years. The Council can send in someone to help with the dynamics. I would encourage you to have her attend GS summer camp, where she will find great role models in the counselors. GS has so many opportunities for older girls that are amazing, including leadership, outdoor skills, STEM, etc. My daughter canoed in the Boundary Waters in Minnesota and attended the convention as a girl delegate, and went on awesome trips with her troop. You might suggest that the troop get involved with helping younger Scouts, and you might need to help make that happen. That breaks up the cliques because they are busy helping others.

I’m sorry this is happening. Some of the girls who are more exclusive will drop out next year, and the ones who stay are more in line with the values of the organization. And some of the current girls will act differently one-on-one, if you can have them over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is happening to my daughter as well. I really want to pull her out of the troop but she doesn't want to. It is painful to watch and based on my perceptions of how the moms are and the other girls - I have zero hope that it would or could change. Out of 5 girls, 3 have become "BFFs". One is sort of a floater but she is not excluded. My daughter is clearly excluded, but at school, she eats lunch every other day with two of the BFFs (the third BFF hates my daughter and talks badly about her).
I think my daughter doesn't want to leave the troop because she's afraid she wouldn't have the girls to sit by during lunch?
My tolerance is decreasing and pretty soon I'm going to just insist she stop going to the meetings which have turned into social playdates with the three BFFs anyway. If this is how girl scouts as an organization is run, it's a joke. I brought this to the attention of the council and they offered to find my daughter another troop but it was affiliated with another school (other troops were full). That does not promote social inclusiveness in middle school doing all extracurricular activities in other districts. Sorry for my less than professionally written post, I'm clearly at my wits end. The moms are just as bad as the girls IMO.

I'm a girl scout leader of middle school girls and I am so sorry to hear this! 5 is a pretty small troop, and I can definitely see how dynamics can get toxic if there isn't a strong leader who is focused on that. Ideally at this point your troop with merge with another troop - it would get the troop size back up and shake up some of the dynamics. That's obviously up to the leader, though. I also think it's a great idea to go to a troop not affiliated with your school. I have 4 schools represented in my troop of 12 girls, and I am so thankful for that - it's really good for middle school kids to have a social scene away from school dynamics!

I'm also sorry to here that meetings have turned into "social play dates" Girl Scouts has SO MUCH to offer older girls, and at this point the girls should really be leading the directiokn of the troop.

The reality is that Girl Scouts is a really flexible program - for good and bad. It sounds like you have a weak leader who isn't building the experience for the girls. Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She can be a Juliette or join a new troop.

+1. I'm a Girl Scout leader and was a Girl Scout through high school. The social dynamics in troops just get more challenging as girls get older, but there are so many opportunities for older girls at the same time. In our service unit, there are cadette and older troops or at least informal groups that are more interest focused (outdoors, high adventure, etc.) and not the typical meeting and badge work structure. Something like that or signing up as an independent Girl Scout (Juliette) may be a good fit for her.

It's hard for even well meaning leaders, because you just can't social engineer group dynamics with middle schoolers the way you can with early elementary aged girls. You can't force older kids to be friends inside of Scouts just like you can't outside of Scouts. They all may be nice girls, but just different and don't vibe well or share similar interests. It's hard to tell what's going on in OP's troop, but I switched troops as an older Scout a few times, then ended up just bored with the meetings and stayed in Scouts as a Juliette.

[Anonymous]

I was a troop leader of my daughter’s troop from K-5th. To all those complain about the experience do you volunteer to help? Can you assist with badges/ journeys ? My co- troop leader and I begged for assistance at meetings so we had more adults with girls and could accomplish more. However no one ever stepped up; and we get it everyone works and is busy, but as volunteer leaders if you aren’t a troop leader I don’t think you understand how much time commitment it is. I have volunteered in many positions in my kids lives (coaches/ room parent etc) and Girl Scout leader by far was the most times intensive. So much goes into preparing, trying to make sure we are covering all the things mentioned here and then running the meetings / outings and journeys: my main suggestion to OP is volunteer to assist at a meeting, become a volunteer within the troop and help in making the change!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Can she invite someone to join who she feels she could bond with?

Sorry for saying this, but I'm not fond of Girl Scout organizations in general - I feel so many of them boil down to gossipy cliques.
I know some of them are wonderful! But many more do not have the right kind of leadership.

+1

Our leader was the most gossipy of all. I know many people have a great experience, but it was a huge, hypocritical waste of time for my DD.

+100 If I had to listen to anymore of her fake niceness I would have had to punch her. Thankfully, GS ended.

+1000 My daughter's troop leader preached about including everyone and not bullying, and her own daughter was the worst of the troop. Thankfully my daughter wanted no more of it, because this leader wanted to "go all the way up" with her daughter to the Gold Award.

I just posted about Girl Scouts being the mean girls. In our troop, the troop leaders’ daughters are definitely mean. At the last meeting, on girl was clearly upset. I don’t know what happened but I can guess. I have heard from other parent that this group exclude and bully other kids at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you were a GS leader, how would you handle this situation? I'm a Scout leader of 5th grade girls and I can already see this dynamic happening. We have some girls who just gravitate towards each other, but can end up excluding other girls. I don't know why they are excluding certain girls but I presume it has to do with their perceived coolness or whatever. When they were in second or third grade they would respond to "Remember we are sisters to every Girl Scout" but they are older now and more socially savvy. If I have to step in and remind them to be kind to Mary, that is singling Mary out as someone who is in need of help.

Of course we try to mix the girls up unobtrusively as much as possible, but it doesn't seem to be building friendships. If Sophie and Meghan are best friends and don't really get along with Mary, making them work with her isn't necessarily going to make them get along better.

I'm not exactly trained in all this social dynamic stuff. I'm a volunteer, my troop has 16 girls, and we only meet for about 3 hours a month! I hate to think girls will drop out because I was unable to manage the cliques, but if all we do is talk about girls feelings and not being left out, we'll never get anything done. And anyway I'm to convinced that talking about things will change anything.

Any ideas? You moms who pulled girls out of Scouts due to cliques... what would you have done differently had you been the volunteer leader? How much time would it have taken?

You could start by discouraging certain phrases : we known each other since K, shes my bff, we are neighbors and do everything together, out parents are sorority sisters, and so on. It is the GS, not a reunion.

Are you kidding? My son’s school counselor uses these phrases to describe her own close relationships. He’s leaving the school, because he’s very social, the school is small, and at school, he feels like a third wheel to these old friendships, but even he understands these relationships and has them (just not at school)

[Anonymous]

My little girl experiences something like this tight cliquey girl dynamic at her.troop since she joined in kindergarten. This is her second year as a 1st grader. I find out later that all other girls know each other before they entered kindergarten. Those moms hang out with each other on playdates and vacations Some girls does sports together since they were Pre-K. It is fine when it is a big group activity. It is awkward when they try to break them into small groups and those girls divide into small sub groups like 2 kids that no one wants to include my girl. I have helped as a volunteer, but it does not help much. Some girls do not like my girl for whatever reasons. Some girls are fine with my girl but they always pick their close friends to hang out. My girl is the only minority in this all white girl troops, and I can't help but think that could be one of the reason. All girls have brown or blonde hair except my girl. I try to stay because all girls are from the same school, and I have been hoping for my girl to get to expose more friendship or break into those cliquey sub groups with them outside of school under my watch. They don't allow other new girls to join anymore because it is too big already.

[Anonymous]

Just put your daughter in some other activities. Give up on Girl Scouts before the rejection kills her self confidence.