Vacation with childless friends = disaster

[Anonymous]

I am a mom of two kids.

The truth is that people who do not have kids do not understand the 24/7 commitment and focus of being with children. Even if these people are very loving and enjoy kids, their interactions with children is for a very limited time. My grown up niece can take care of my kids for a couple of hours - taking them to the park or movies - but would be exhausted if she had to be there for them for 24 hours.

So, do not blame your friends. They are not at the life stage that you are at. It is not nice to vilify them if they found your child's needs exasperating, especially when they were on a vacation and had expectations of enjoying it and going with the flow.

OP, I blame you and not your friends. They have no idea what being a parent means, but you should have known better! Why would you include them in your vacation plans when you know that you will be responsible for your child and your pace will be different than yours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With my first, I still used to travel with childless friends. We picked destinations where there would be more relaxing time so I could take my son out and play. When we did activities, we did what everyone wanted to do (which was adult obviously) but I would slip off for ten minutes or so every now and again so that my son could do what he thought was fun. If we ate out, we picked places that made everyone happy and if it wasn't kid friendly, I took food for my son. I never would have made people plan around his nap or asked them to go to kid places. It can work, but both sides have to be thoughtful and considerate. The world doesn't revolve around the child.

Yes, not clear whether OP was insisting people accommodate the child's schedule or whether the childless friends were just self-centered or some combination of both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of our child free friends told me how much they liked my (older) children because they stayed in their room and did not bother him. I decided at that moment that's dcs did not need to spend any more time with him. He doesn't like or understand children and that is fine. But he did not need to be around mine. He meant it as a compliment but.

This pretty much describes my in-laws reaction to our young kids on their last visit. Praised them up and down whenever they were absent or quiet, and seemed annoyed when they were actually present.

[Anonymous]

To me this was a planning and communication issue. Some people are more pro-active than others with managing expectations.

OP my only advice to you is to keep up the friendship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not because they are childless. Some of our favorite people to hang out with and vacation do not have children.

I agree. Might not be the friends at all. Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We decided it would be fun to take a short trip away with two couples and our 2 year old daughter. Terrible idea. Their faces and voices reek of judgment and resentment anytime we have to make a decision to accommodate our daughter (nap, food, entertainment, etc.) and they just stare at us whenever she gets cranky/fussy. I know it's hard for them to understand since they don't have kids but it's still frustrating when people you consider your friends don't even make an effort. Never again!!

LOL I dont think you will need to worry. Dont think it will be on their list of things to do anymore either!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds very young.

and immature. On another note, can you imagine what the friends are talking about today? Here OP is complaining about the friends here, I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear the friends conversation about the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much accommodation did you expect them to make for your daughter? Did her nap dictate the whole day? Did every outing need to be to a "kid centered" place--like a children's museum or zoo, or were you still doing more adult activities, like skiing, visiting wineries, etc.?

With a two year old? Skiing and wineries? WTH?

One of my favorite trips was when Ds was 2 and we went to the finger lakes. Wineries serve tiny cups of juice for kids. Most also sold cheese and crackers. It was one of the last trips we took where is was easy to do almost all adult things with the kid.

[Anonymous]

Op, they do not need to be flexibl, you do. One of you opts out of activities if your child cannot nap on the go or go out to eat and you rotate parents. I have kids and would be pissed too. I would never do that with a two year old. But, ours would nap on the go and hang out at that age. it is on you to make it work, not them. It is not fair to hold up four adults for a fussy child. You kindly say, go out, have a nice time, I will stay back and please bring me back xxx to eat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They seem judgemental because they are ashamed they are barren. Try to draw up some sympathy.

OP did not say this.

I know. I said it. Their actions are telling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom of two kids.

The truth is that people who do not have kids do not understand the 24/7 commitment and focus of being with children. Even if these people are very loving and enjoy kids, their interactions with children is for a very limited time. My grown up niece can take care of my kids for a couple of hours - taking them to the park or movies - but would be exhausted if she had to be there for them for 24 hours.

So, do not blame your friends. They are not at the life stage that you are at. It is not nice to vilify them if they found your child's needs exasperating, especially when they were on a vacation and had expectations of enjoying it and going with the flow.

OP, I blame you and not your friends. They have no idea what being a parent means, but you should have known better! Why would you include them in your vacation plans when you know that you will be responsible for your child and your pace will be different than yours?

This exactly! When I go out with my friends who do not yet have kids, I don't bring the kids along ever, and I don't spend the time talking about them unless asked. It is just a completely different world, one that people without kids are just not interested in yet, nor do they have any knowledge about yet.

[Anonymous]

Unless everyone in the group has to follow toddler's schedule, I don't see the reason for childless couples to be annoyed. They can do their own thing and meet up with you whenever it works for them and you.
The only time I was annoyed with a couple with children during vacation was when we had kids already, but left them with grandparent to go on a trip. This couple was constantly asking DH and I to babysit, so the two of them can go do fun things geared towards adults. I mean, I did not leave my I kids at home to babysit yours!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, did they actually *say* anything judgmental? Or are you just interpreting "stares"?

We don't have children, but we have friends with children, and we spend time with them. Their kids have had meltdowns in front of us. We've had to cut short activities/dinners to accommodate the children. We've sat in restaurants with their toddlers screaming bloody murder.

But we have never judged them. If we are guilty of staring, it is because we are just as clueless AS THEY ARE about how to make the child stop screaming.

If anything, we probably give them looks of sympathy, as in "how do you deal with this all.of.the.time???"

We aren't ignorant or naive. We know kids cry for no reason sometimes, get tired and meltdown, reach a point (especially when they are removed from their regular routine) at which they are pretty much inconsolable.

So I'm not so certain your friends were judging you. But that didn't stop you from a post wherein YOU judge all childfree/childless couples, and then PPs pile on with the judgment.

That said, you were the one who suggested the trip. You don't know if perhaps they had reservations about going on a vacation with a 2 year old. Most couples who are childfree are childfree for a reason -- it's not that they judge parents; it's that they actively choose not to have a kid because they don't want to spend 24 hours a day dealing with that kind of thing.

We do plenty of things with our friends who have children. And we love their children. We don't judge them.

But we would NEVER agree to a vacation that involved spending a few days, 24 hours a day, with them and their kids, because our vacation time is limited and precious, and we wouldn't want it to be dominated/dictated by a 2 year old.

There's no judgment. It's just a choice we make.

And to the PPs who are saying nasty things about childfree couples being envious, one of the reasons I feel like I'm leaning toward being permanently childfree is BECAUSE of the time I've spent with other people and their children and the realization that it just isn't something I want. And I simply don't believe that "because I don't want to be alone when I'm old" is a good enough reason on its own to have children. Not to mention, I know many old people who seem very lonely, despite the fact that they have adult children.

It's ridiculous to, on the one hand, get upset because you feel childfree couples are *judging* you and then return that with a bunch of judgment.

Different people make different choices. If you want to only be friends with people who think exactly like you do, then fine. Otherwise, you learn how to figure out boundaries and limitations and try to be accommodating. So maybe that only means daytrips with your childfree friends and not full blown vacations.

And if you don't think other parents will give you judgmental looks when your kid is having a meltdown, then you are naive. If anything, I think childfree people are far more sympathetic and less judgmental of parenting than other parents.

I'm curious, why are you hanging out on this board if you don't have kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom of two kids.

The truth is that people who do not have kids do not understand the 24/7 commitment and focus of being with children. Even if these people are very loving and enjoy kids, their interactions with children is for a very limited time. My grown up niece can take care of my kids for a couple of hours - taking them to the park or movies - but would be exhausted if she had to be there for them for 24 hours.

So, do not blame your friends. They are not at the life stage that you are at. It is not nice to vilify them if they found your child's needs exasperating, especially when they were on a vacation and had expectations of enjoying it and going with the flow.

OP, I blame you and not your friends. They have no idea what being a parent means, but you should have known better! Why would you include them in your vacation plans when you know that you will be responsible for your child and your pace will be different than yours?

+1.

How much time have they spent around kids? If not much, I suspect this is cluelessness and confusion more than judgment. I remember an outing with a friend who had a toddler at a time when I was single and childless. We went shopping and I was on my usual, not a care in the world, schedule and realized she had disappeared. I found her out in the hallway feeding her baby. I had no idea I was intruding on her kid's schedule and felt really bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, did they actually *say* anything judgmental? Or are you just interpreting "stares"?

We don't have children, but we have friends with children, and we spend time with them. Their kids have had meltdowns in front of us. We've had to cut short activities/dinners to accommodate the children. We've sat in restaurants with their toddlers screaming bloody murder.

But we have never judged them. If we are guilty of staring, it is because we are just as clueless AS THEY ARE about how to make the child stop screaming.

If anything, we probably give them looks of sympathy, as in "how do you deal with this all.of.the.time???"

We aren't ignorant or naive. We know kids cry for no reason sometimes, get tired and meltdown, reach a point (especially when they are removed from their regular routine) at which they are pretty much inconsolable.

So I'm not so certain your friends were judging you. But that didn't stop you from a post wherein YOU judge all childfree/childless couples, and then PPs pile on with the judgment.

That said, you were the one who suggested the trip. You don't know if perhaps they had reservations about going on a vacation with a 2 year old. Most couples who are childfree are childfree for a reason -- it's not that they judge parents; it's that they actively choose not to have a kid because they don't want to spend 24 hours a day dealing with that kind of thing.

We do plenty of things with our friends who have children. And we love their children. We don't judge them.

But we would NEVER agree to a vacation that involved spending a few days, 24 hours a day, with them and their kids, because our vacation time is limited and precious, and we wouldn't want it to be dominated/dictated by a 2 year old.

There's no judgment. It's just a choice we make.

And to the PPs who are saying nasty things about childfree couples being envious, one of the reasons I feel like I'm leaning toward being permanently childfree is BECAUSE of the time I've spent with other people and their children and the realization that it just isn't something I want. And I simply don't believe that "because I don't want to be alone when I'm old" is a good enough reason on its own to have children. Not to mention, I know many old people who seem very lonely, despite the fact that they have adult children.

It's ridiculous to, on the one hand, get upset because you feel childfree couples are *judging* you and then return that with a bunch of judgment.

Different people make different choices. If you want to only be friends with people who think exactly like you do, then fine. Otherwise, you learn how to figure out boundaries and limitations and try to be accommodating. So maybe that only means daytrips with your childfree friends and not full blown vacations.

And if you don't think other parents will give you judgmental looks when your kid is having a meltdown, then you are naive. If anything, I think childfree people are far more sympathetic and less judgmental of parenting than other parents.

I'm curious, why are you hanging out on this board if you don't have kids?

Not PP, but I first found this site through a google search result on something unrelated. If you click on recent topics, you see discussions on all of the boards. It's not so unusual.