My brother is engaged to a narcissist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: OP, I'm sorry to hear that and he is lucky that you care so much about him. That said, only share your opinion of he asks. If you really feel you must warn him, then maybe say "Do you want me to tell you what I think about your future wife?" If he has "no" then don't say it. He's an adult.

My SILs warned DH about me many years ago. They both have narcissistic traits and they liked to control everything. (Not saying this is you OP at all, just sharing a story). I distanced myself from them once I saw that all they want to do is gossip and create drama. This infuriated them, so they warned DH that I didn't value family, blah blah. It is now 15 years later. DH and I are still happily married and with kids now. His sisters have a few divorces under their belts and they have stopped talking to eachother. Luckily back in the day, DH didn't heed their warnings. Again, this isn't you OP, but just showing an example where the guy was glad he didn't heed the warnings.

OP here. It's so easy to twist everything. I have heard her say such things about our family (about "gossip and drama"), and I am afraid that that's how he'll take my sincere concern. It's why I backed off in the early days of their relationship when he pulled away from me. Because I would never want to get in the middle of a couple. But the more I read about NPD, the more I see how the spouse and children are victims of abuse, and it's harder and harder for me to be silent about it all. But I guess what I'm afraid is how it will be perceived and twisted.

I am the poster who said my sister-in-laws warned my DH. I think you could ask him "are you happy?" That is more innocuous then giving a warning right off the bat. Maybe he genuinely is. If you must share your thoughts then you can, but just let it go after that. I have seen couples that fight a lot last and both sides are genuinely happy with the relationship because the good times are much more frequent than the fights. I have seen couples who look like perfection together break up due to cheating, etc. Part of why DH ignored his sisters' warnings, was they were prone to drama, he felt it was right, he was happy in the relationship and he wasn't that close with his sisters. They blame me for the fact they aren't close with us, but that was DH's choice, not mine, though we both prefer calm interactions. If you are genuinely close with your brother then he will probably ask you what you think or he won't be offended if you share some concerns. The thing is he is an adult. You can say what you want if it will give you some peace of mind, but if she truly is as horrible as you say, sadly he will eventually understand why you were so concerned. You can't protect him from life's bumps against his will. Hopefully their relationship is healthier than it appears on the outside.

[Anonymous]

I would warn. We have one in our family and this person has tortured the spouse for years and years. Had an affair, blamed the other spouse who took said narcissist back and is still being subject to the narcissistic abuse. Thankfully they don't have kids. Speak you peace. These are terrible people that need serious help. You love them at the cost of yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: OP, I'm sorry to hear that and he is lucky that you care so much about him. That said, only share your opinion of he asks. If you really feel you must warn him, then maybe say "Do you want me to tell you what I think about your future wife?" If he has "no" then don't say it. He's an adult.

My SILs warned DH about me many years ago. They both have narcissistic traits and they liked to control everything. (Not saying this is you OP at all, just sharing a story). I distanced myself from them once I saw that all they want to do is gossip and create drama. This infuriated them, so they warned DH that I didn't value family, blah blah. It is now 15 years later. DH and I are still happily married and with kids now. His sisters have a few divorces under their belts and they have stopped talking to eachother. Luckily back in the day, DH didn't heed their warnings. Again, this isn't you OP, but just showing an example where the guy was glad he didn't heed the warnings.

OP here. It's so easy to twist everything. I have heard her say such things about our family (about "gossip and drama"), and I am afraid that that's how he'll take my sincere concern. It's why I backed off in the early days of their relationship when he pulled away from me. Because I would never want to get in the middle of a couple. But the more I read about NPD, the more I see how the spouse and children are victims of abuse, and it's harder and harder for me to be silent about it all. But I guess what I'm afraid is how it will be perceived and twisted.

I am the poster who said my sister-in-laws warned my DH. I think you could ask him "are you happy?" That is more innocuous then giving a warning right off the bat. Maybe he genuinely is. If you must share your thoughts then you can, but just let it go after that. I have seen couples that fight a lot last and both sides are genuinely happy with the relationship because the good times are much more frequent than the fights. I have seen couples who look like perfection together break up due to cheating, etc. Part of why DH ignored his sisters' warnings, was they were prone to drama, he felt it was right, he was happy in the relationship and he wasn't that close with his sisters. They blame me for the fact they aren't close with us, but that was DH's choice, not mine, though we both prefer calm interactions. If you are genuinely close with your brother then he will probably ask you what you think or he won't be offended if you share some concerns. The thing is he is an adult. You can say what you want if it will give you some peace of mind, but if she truly is as horrible as you say, sadly he will eventually understand why you were so concerned. You can't protect him from life's bumps against his will. Hopefully their relationship is healthier than it appears on the outside.

Thanks, I understand what you mean. I guess my point was just that the words that are uttered on both sides are often identical. But the intent is not. Sometimes I can't sleep at night with the thought that he is not building a life with someone he can trust.

We were close in that we were involved in each others lives, saw each other regularly, but I was always a sibling in his mind, not a "friend." That's okay, I guess. But it leaves us vulnerable to someone twisting things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would warn. We have one in our family and this person has tortured the spouse for years and years. Had an affair, blamed the other spouse who took said narcissist back and is still being subject to the narcissistic abuse. Thankfully they don't have kids. Speak you peace. These are terrible people that need serious help. You love them at the cost of yourself.

I think this is it.

I don't want to say to him, break up with her, end this, etc. That is his choice. But I want him to be able to see that in loving her and committing to her, he is sacrificing his own happiness.

[Anonymous]

Ask her out to lunch and talk to her about how you feel.

When my SIL had a breakdown, she told the therapist I didn't like her and our family treated her badly. BOTH lies. It wasn't that I disliked her. We had nothing in common. She always thought she was better than any of us. My mother and sisters always treated her well but unless you kissed her butt, she took it as we didn't like her. So when family gatherings happened, I just ignored her. No matter what you talked to her about, she got offended. She was not some delicate flower needing protection. She was a self centered bitch and I refused to play games with her.

I shut the door on my brother and his wife and moved on. My mother and sisters continued to kiss her butt and it got them nowhere. My brother just stuck to his wife's side.

[Anonymous]

This whole thing breaks my heart. I asked my brother "are you happy" once, and he was never the same with me (or our extended family) after that. We used to be so close. But, I'm sure he brought that up with her, and she will never forget that. And I agree with the pp's that said that my brother probably wants it this way due to an insecurity. It's been almost ten years of this heartbreak. I'm so sorry op. Tread lightly is my only advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ask her out to lunch and talk to her about how you feel.

When my SIL had a breakdown, she told the therapist I didn't like her and our family treated her badly. BOTH lies. It wasn't that I disliked her. We had nothing in common. She always thought she was better than any of us. My mother and sisters always treated her well but unless you kissed her butt, she took it as we didn't like her. So when family gatherings happened, I just ignored her. No matter what you talked to her about, she got offended. She was not some delicate flower needing protection. She was a self centered bitch and I refused to play games with her.

I shut the door on my brother and his wife and moved on. My mother and sisters continued to kiss her butt and it got them nowhere. My brother just stuck to his wife's side.

OP here. You're describing exactly what I've experienced. And she *does* play the victim constantly, and of course my brother comes along as protective hero, completely ignoring the facts of the situation, which usually have involved her actively instigating trouble. And I apologize to take responsibility for any mistakes and keep the peace, and suddenly she's ignoring me and bitching about me.

Given that, why do you think asking her out to lunch would help?

[Anonymous]

op, does your brother have an exit strategy? Let's say you had the come-to-jesus and he decided to leave her. Where would he go? how would he disentangle himself? what do you want him to do exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing breaks my heart. I asked my brother "are you happy" once, and he was never the same with me (or our extended family) after that. We used to be so close. But, I'm sure he brought that up with her, and she will never forget that. And I agree with the pp's that said that my brother probably wants it this way due to an insecurity. It's been almost ten years of this heartbreak. I'm so sorry op. Tread lightly is my only advice.

OP here. So sorry to hear that, PP.

Maybe one day things will change.


From what I've seen, if she wants to be offended or play a victim, there is NOTHING that can be done. Any way you try to handle the situation is wrong and horrific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:op, does your brother have an exit strategy? Let's say you had the come-to-jesus and he decided to leave her. Where would he go? how would he disentangle himself? what do you want him to do exactly?

He's got a good job and a supportive group of family and friends. They have a lot of friends in common, so that will be messy, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few of them do not like her, and are just afraid to say so. He doesn't need her, but she's made sure he thinks he does. He's a nice guy, flawed, but nice. I think he'll find someone decent with whom he could actually build a good life. I just want him to be able to have some control in his life and to live it in a way that makes him content. I don't want him in a marriage with someone who chooses to be miserable and is only satisfied when controlling and bringing misery to others.

[Anonymous]

You are not a professional. You do not know what her issues are. He may get a kick out of her attitude. You don't know what their bonding formula is, and frankly, it is none of your business.

Try being a better person instead of judging others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not a professional. You do not know what her issues are. He may get a kick out of her attitude. You don't know what their bonding formula is, and frankly, it is none of your business.

Try being a better person instead of judging others.

I know I'm not a professional; I understand that. And I have no intention of saying to him, "Your fiance is a narcissist."

But there is a pattern of behavior I cannot ignore.

And how about YOU try being a better person instead of judging others. See how that works? Everyone judges. We all use what we learn about others to make judgements about them. That is just how the human brain works.

I am concerned about a family member whose life I see being destroyed. I know it's not definite. I just am trying to figure out what to do, if anything at all, and people have shared their perspectives in a helpful way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

She's already tried to poison my relationship with him. It was really bad for a while and he even knows about some of the lies she told to do it, and somehow he still thinks of their relationship as based in mutual honesty and says so. She's moved on to destroying his relationship with other family members now. It's so heartbreaking. Right now I feel like if he reaches out, I'm just a listener, and I try to be supportive without pointing out any of the things I see her doing, but how long can that go on? She's going to break him until he's just a shell. And he's letting her.

Instead of just being a listener or offering advice, can you ask him questions. Start easy and eventually get to more probing questions. When he complains about her, you can ask "why do you think she does that?", "How does that make you feel?", etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

She's already tried to poison my relationship with him. It was really bad for a while and he even knows about some of the lies she told to do it, and somehow he still thinks of their relationship as based in mutual honesty and says so. She's moved on to destroying his relationship with other family members now. It's so heartbreaking. Right now I feel like if he reaches out, I'm just a listener, and I try to be supportive without pointing out any of the things I see her doing, but how long can that go on? She's going to break him until he's just a shell. And he's letting her.

Instead of just being a listener or offering advice, can you ask him questions. Start easy and eventually get to more probing questions. When he complains about her, you can ask "why do you think she does that?", "How does that make you feel?", etc...

He's actually very careful not to complain about her, even when they are fighting. He keeps the issues private. I do prompt him and sometimes he offers details about his feelings, but never things that she's done to hurt/upset him. The stuff I know about is just what I have actually observed, and it's pretty bad, over the years. I though things had changed, but then she was playing the games again. The cycle keeps repeating, and that's why I am concerned because I don't think it's a matter of maturity or learning from mistakes, etc. There really seems to be a problem with who she is and how she treats him and who he becomes when with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

She's already tried to poison my relationship with him. It was really bad for a while and he even knows about some of the lies she told to do it, and somehow he still thinks of their relationship as based in mutual honesty and says so. She's moved on to destroying his relationship with other family members now. It's so heartbreaking. Right now I feel like if he reaches out, I'm just a listener, and I try to be supportive without pointing out any of the things I see her doing, but how long can that go on? She's going to break him until he's just a shell. And he's letting her.

"Brother, I'm worried. You don't seem as happy as you used to. Are you okay?" Then just listen. Maybe add, "If you are truly happy with Larla, then I'm happy for you. I just want you to be happy, and I'm always here for you."