Talking to DD about classmate with Downs Syndrome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to do two things.

You need to talk to your child about mean girl behavior in general. Imitating people isn't nice. It isn't a matter of this child having DS. We don't mimic people. We don't talk about their behavior. We don't laugh at their conduct.

And you need to have a word with the teacher about how this child is being treated.

If you want to talk to your child about disability, I recommend saying something like "Your body is strong. Not everyone has a strong body like you. Some people use wheelchairs. Some people like Teddy have Down Syndrome. Some people are weak and need your help. What are some ways that you can be helpful to people who need your help?"

It's great that you're thinking of this, but please don't use "weak" in relation to people with disabilities and don't imply that people without visible disabilities are "strong." I would much rather take an "everyone is different" approach, without introducing terms of value and judgment.

I think that your point about weak is valid. But you are missing the point. The point is not that people with disabilities are weak and people without are strong. The point is to say that this kindergartner has a strong body. That kid. And to empower her to care for others and watch over them, not be mean. Also, I find the "everyone is different" approach to be confusing and demeaning to young children. They know that people with disabilities are not just "different" like blue eyed and brown eyed people. It's silly to pretend.

Okay. I'd just like to let you know that I have been a professional in this area for many years, including as a professor and a board member for disability rights organizations, and what you've written here is a good example of the kind of ignorance prejudice that the disability rights community finds troubling.

You know what, as a Special Needs mom, I've dealt with any number of insensitive idiots who are 'professors' and 'board members' and emeritus and Chair of this and that and Captain Asshat of the other thing. So why would that impress me? If you have something constructive to add to this Forum, do so. Don't pretend to speak for the disability rights community, because you don't.

[Anonymous]

I think that your point about weak is valid. But you are missing the point. The point is not that people with disabilities are weak and people without are strong. The point is to say that this kindergartner has a strong body. That kid. And to empower her to care for others and watch over them, not be mean. Also, I find the "everyone is different" approach to be confusing and demeaning to young children. They know that people with disabilities are not just "different" like blue eyed and brown eyed people. It's silly to pretend.

Thank you. I have an 8 yo DS with SN. At first glance, he doesn't look different from the rest of the kids in his class but it doesn't take long for his differences to be noticed. As he gets older, we have increasing concerns about how he'll be treated by his classmates. We were heartened at our most recent P/T conference to hear the teachers talk about how inclusive and kind the other kids are to him. They 'look out for him'. This year has really been positive for him and we're very appreciative of those kids.

I don't know why 'The Professional" took your post to be ignorant or prejudicial. I found it to be the opposite. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to do two things.

You need to talk to your child about mean girl behavior in general. Imitating people isn't nice. It isn't a matter of this child having DS. We don't mimic people. We don't talk about their behavior. We don't laugh at their conduct.

And you need to have a word with the teacher about how this child is being treated.

If you want to talk to your child about disability, I recommend saying something like "Your body is strong. Not everyone has a strong body like you. Some people use wheelchairs. Some people like Teddy have Down Syndrome. Some people are weak and need your help. What are some ways that you can be helpful to people who need your help?"

It's great that you're thinking of this, but please don't use "weak" in relation to people with disabilities and don't imply that people without visible disabilities are "strong." I would much rather take an "everyone is different" approach, without introducing terms of value and judgment.

I think that your point about weak is valid. But you are missing the point. The point is not that people with disabilities are weak and people without are strong. The point is to say that this kindergartner has a strong body. That kid. And to empower her to care for others and watch over them, not be mean. Also, I find the "everyone is different" approach to be confusing and demeaning to young children. They know that people with disabilities are not just "different" like blue eyed and brown eyed people. It's silly to pretend.

Okay. I'd just like to let you know that I have been a professional in this area for many years, including as a professor and a board member for disability rights organizations, and what you've written here is a good example of the kind of ignorance prejudice that the disability rights community finds troubling.

Thank you for this comment. I am floored by The discrimination and stigma that seems to underpin this advice.

I'm confused. Which part is ignorant and discriminatory? NP here. Calling somebody weak is bad. But telling a child that she has a strong body (and mind) and to use that body and mind to help others sounds empowering to me. I also agree with PP's second point about pretending a child with DS's differences are no different than hair color or eye color. Kids aren't that dumb.

The disability right movement is modeled on the civil rights movement. Try using that lens to view some of these comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to do two things.

You need to talk to your child about mean girl behavior in general. Imitating people isn't nice. It isn't a matter of this child having DS. We don't mimic people. We don't talk about their behavior. We don't laugh at their conduct.

And you need to have a word with the teacher about how this child is being treated.

If you want to talk to your child about disability, I recommend saying something like "Your body is strong. Not everyone has a strong body like you. Some people use wheelchairs. Some people like Teddy have Down Syndrome. Some people are weak and need your help. What are some ways that you can be helpful to people who need your help?"

It's great that you're thinking of this, but please don't use "weak" in relation to people with disabilities and don't imply that people without visible disabilities are "strong." I would much rather take an "everyone is different" approach, without introducing terms of value and judgment.

I think that your point about weak is valid. But you are missing the point. The point is not that people with disabilities are weak and people without are strong. The point is to say that this kindergartner has a strong body. That kid. And to empower her to care for others and watch over them, not be mean. Also, I find the "everyone is different" approach to be confusing and demeaning to young children. They know that people with disabilities are not just "different" like blue eyed and brown eyed people. It's silly to pretend.

Okay. I'd just like to let you know that I have been a professional in this area for many years, including as a professor and a board member for disability rights organizations, and what you've written here is a good example of the kind of ignorance prejudice that the disability rights community finds troubling.

You know what, as a Special Needs mom, I've dealt with any number of insensitive idiots who are 'professors' and 'board members' and emeritus and Chair of this and that and Captain Asshat of the other thing. So why would that impress me? If you have something constructive to add to this Forum, do so. Don't pretend to speak for the disability rights community, because you don't.

What I added is that it is not appropriate to use the terms "weak" and "strong" or other value-laden terms to refer to people with and without disabilities. Nor should people without disabilities try to define the experience of people with disabilities. Do you really disagree with those points?

[Anonymous]

Try looking at your own post through the lens that you are speaking to moms of disabled kids, not through a bullhorn or to students.

[Anonymous]

We are neither ignorant nor prejudiced. Oftentimes we are. Our child's only friend and advocate. You might start from that premise.

[Anonymous]

DS is also a physical disability as almost all people with DS have low muscle tone, so the girl in the class might appear "floppy" and will need help with gross and fine motor activities. So it might be accurate to explain the girl is weaker and might have more safety concerns.

Mom of child with DS here. Be careful not to confuse low muscle tone (hypotonia) with "weakness." Actually, most people with DS are physically very strong, but often have trouble coordinating their muscle movements. This, and not cognitive ability, is what explains their speech patterns and uncommon gaits. The biggest safety concern for kids with DS involves some neck weakness--some kids with DS need to restrict their activities due to a risk of major neck injury.

I'd also like to say that I think the majority of the posters on this thread have been very sensitive to this issue and presented their advice and views in a thoughtful way. Thank you to those here who care enough to work to welcome kids with DS into their childs' classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to do two things.

You need to talk to your child about mean girl behavior in general. Imitating people isn't nice. It isn't a matter of this child having DS. We don't mimic people. We don't talk about their behavior. We don't laugh at their conduct.

And you need to have a word with the teacher about how this child is being treated.

If you want to talk to your child about disability, I recommend saying something like "Your body is strong. Not everyone has a strong body like you. Some people use wheelchairs. Some people like Teddy have Down Syndrome. Some people are weak and need your help. What are some ways that you can be helpful to people who need your help?"

It's great that you're thinking of this, but please don't use "weak" in relation to people with disabilities and don't imply that people without visible disabilities are "strong." I would much rather take an "everyone is different" approach, without introducing terms of value and judgment.

I think that your point about weak is valid. But you are missing the point. The point is not that people with disabilities are weak and people without are strong. The point is to say that this kindergartner has a strong body. That kid. And to empower her to care for others and watch over them, not be mean. Also, I find the "everyone is different" approach to be confusing and demeaning to young children. They know that people with disabilities are not just "different" like blue eyed and brown eyed people. It's silly to pretend.

Okay. I'd just like to let you know that I have been a professional in this area for many years, including as a professor and a board member for disability rights organizations, and what you've written here is a good example of the kind of ignorance prejudice that the disability rights community finds troubling.

Thank you for this comment. I am floored by The discrimination and stigma that seems to underpin this advice.

I'm confused. Which part is ignorant and discriminatory? NP here. Calling somebody weak is bad. But telling a child that she has a strong body (and mind) and to use that body and mind to help others sounds empowering to me. I also agree with PP's second point about pretending a child with DS's differences are no different than hair color or eye color. Kids aren't that dumb.

The disability right movement is modeled on the civil rights movement. Try using that lens to view some of these comments.

So what PP? This isn't an article or a speech about disability rights. It's a mom asking for advice about how to talk to a kid about a specific situation. And you can't substitute race for disability as if we were doing a "global replace" just because the disability rights movement was modeled on civil rights. It doesn't work that way. The Westboro Baptist Church is modeled on the Civil Rights Movement. So what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Try looking at your own post through the lens that you are speaking to moms of disabled kids, not through a bullhorn or to students.

I was not speaking to moms of disabled kids, PP. I was speaking to the mom of a nondisabled child who was asking what to tell her daughter about the child with Down Syndrome.

If you say someone with Down Syndrome is "weak" but your own nondisabled child is "strong," you're being paternalistic, and paternalism is the opposite of self-determination.

[Anonymous]

DS is also a physical disability as almost all people with DS have low muscle tone, so the girl in the class might appear "floppy" and will need help with gross and fine motor activities. So it might be accurate to explain the girl is weaker and might have more safety concerns.



Mom of child with DS here. Be careful not to confuse low muscle tone (hypotonia) with "weakness." Actually, most people with DS are physically very strong, but often have trouble coordinating their muscle movements. This, and not cognitive ability, is what explains their speech patterns and uncommon gaits. The biggest safety concern for kids with DS involves some neck weakness--some kids with DS need to restrict their activities due to a risk of major neck injury.

I'd also like to say that I think the majority of the posters on this thread have been very sensitive to this issue and presented their advice and views in a thoughtful way. Thank you to those here who care enough to work to welcome kids with DS into their childs' classrooms.

Sorry, I meant "children's."

[Anonymous]

I don't think anyone was advocating describing people with disabilities as "weak" in general. Is there any post that said so? I can't find one other than the first post which gave one example of language one might use with a very young child. This is so completely overblown and totally decontextualized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try looking at your own post through the lens that you are speaking to moms of disabled kids, not through a bullhorn or to students.

I was not speaking to moms of disabled kids, PP. I was speaking to the mom of a nondisabled child who was asking what to tell her daughter about the child with Down Syndrome.

If you say someone with Down Syndrome is "weak" but your own nondisabled child is "strong," you're being paternalistic, and paternalism is the opposite of self-determination.

No, you were talking to me -- as the mom who posted the above language. And I have a disabled child! A severely disabled child! Wow, I'm sorry my suggested language did not pass muster, but this is a helpful forum for moms to come together, not a place for you to practice intellectual masturbation. I'm just trying to get through my fucking day, asshole. I've got 99 problems, and whether paternalism is the opposite of self-determination is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Try looking at your own post through the lens that you are speaking to moms of disabled kids, not through a bullhorn or to students.

I was not speaking to moms of disabled kids, PP. I was speaking to the mom of a nondisabled child who was asking what to tell her daughter about the child with Down Syndrome.

If you say someone with Down Syndrome is "weak" but your own nondisabled child is "strong," you're being paternalistic, and paternalism is the opposite of self-determination.

Perhaps, but by being a scold, PP, you might win the battle, but lose the war. Our purpose needs to be to make the world a better place for people with disabilities, not to alienate others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try looking at your own post through the lens that you are speaking to moms of disabled kids, not through a bullhorn or to students.

I was not speaking to moms of disabled kids, PP. I was speaking to the mom of a nondisabled child who was asking what to tell her daughter about the child with Down Syndrome.

If you say someone with Down Syndrome is "weak" but your own nondisabled child is "strong," you're being paternalistic, and paternalism is the opposite of self-determination.

No, you were talking to me -- as the mom who posted the above language. And I have a disabled child! A severely disabled child! Wow, I'm sorry my suggested language did not pass muster, but this is a helpful forum for moms to come together, not a place for you to practice intellectual masturbation. I'm just trying to get through my fucking day, asshole. I've got 99 problems, and whether paternalism is the opposite of self-determination is not one of them.

I am truly sorry I offended you. I was indeed an asshole and I cannot apologize enough for my rudeness. I was trying, very ineptly, to point out that people with disabilities have the same rights to self-determination that nondisabled people have, and this is still a huge problem in society's perception of people with disabilities. I have encountered this directly this week I am fucking tired of it. I am tired of the assumptions people make about my own kid or anybody else's kid with a disability. But me being tired of it is no excuse to be rude and pedantic, and I am truly sorry. Also mortified. And also sorry to go off on a tirade here that is obviously displacing my own anger at people I can't say this to directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try looking at your own post through the lens that you are speaking to moms of disabled kids, not through a bullhorn or to students.

I was not speaking to moms of disabled kids, PP. I was speaking to the mom of a nondisabled child who was asking what to tell her daughter about the child with Down Syndrome.

If you say someone with Down Syndrome is "weak" but your own nondisabled child is "strong," you're being paternalistic, and paternalism is the opposite of self-determination.

No, you were talking to me -- as the mom who posted the above language. And I have a disabled child! A severely disabled child! Wow, I'm sorry my suggested language did not pass muster, but this is a helpful forum for moms to come together, not a place for you to practice intellectual masturbation. I'm just trying to get through my fucking day, asshole. I've got 99 problems, and whether paternalism is the opposite of self-determination is not one of them.

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