Clueless kids on bus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It might be a good time to introduce the AAP kids to the concept of "unearned advantage". Unearned advantages – like intelligence, beauty, athletic talent, or your parents' wealth – shouldn't be flaunted, and you're a jerk if you do so. Definitely a teaching moment, and possibly a teaching moment that employs the word "asshole".

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds horrible and I would find it unsettling if I knew her kid was a patrol at our school. I bet her attitudes have rubbed off on him and that he looks to pick fights with AAP kids. Ugh.

Right, because kids telling another kid s/he "isn't smart enough" is perfectly harmless and actually, kind of cute and endearing.

I would hope that all kids by the age of 6th grade would be courageous enough to try and stop bullying, of any kind. And this is most defintitely bullying.

I find it unsettling that there are actually parents like you who probably have kids like these girls. Ugh is right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds horrible and I would find it unsettling if I knew her kid was a patrol at our school. I bet her attitudes have rubbed off on him and that he looks to pick fights with AAP kids. Ugh.

Right, because kids telling another kid s/he "isn't smart enough" is perfectly harmless and actually, kind of cute and endearing.

I would hope that all kids by the age of 6th grade would be courageous enough to try and stop bullying, of any kind. And this is most defintitely bullying.

I find it unsettling that there are actually parents like you who probably have kids like these girls. Ugh is right.

I disagree, and I've read the bullying policies.

Repeatedly accosting a girl and telling her she's "stupid" is bullying. A third grader telling a GenEd kid on the bus one afternoon she wasn't "smart enough" for an AAP class is a harsh way of stating a fact.

On the other hand, an adult who suggests that all AAP kids are "insufferable" is immature and ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is the post begging parents and staff to teach kids who are on athletic travel teams to not consider themselves better than kids less athletically inclined? Or those with more money keeping that to themselves? Those with more tech gadgets? Those who have homemade lunches vs. sad school lunches?

Shouldn't we work on teaching general acceptance and respect rather than narrowing the argument to AAP vs. GE yet again?

+1.

+2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:in our neighborhood there are separate busses for AAP center and the gen ed. school. The kids seem to get along fine.

You do know that gen ed students attend the AAP center as well, right? Those are the students we're talking about - they ride the same bus and attend the same school. At our center, the gen ed students are now outnumbered by AAP.

I live in DC so have no dog in this fight. But if the AAP enrollment is larger, how much "smarter" can those kids be? This seems like a weird program.

And you have hit the nail on the head. This is exactly the problem.

Because the gen ed kids come from just one neighborhood, whereas the aap center includes kids from up to five different elementary schools. The proper statistic would be to look at the aap kids in the center as a percentage of the students from all the feeder schools. Of course, I completely understand the negative ramifications of one particular school, which happens to be a center school, having more aap kids than gen ed. I agree this is a problem for that school. But don't fault the program in its entirety when using wrong statistics.

OP here; the school in question is not Haycock. There are other centers which have this problem.

Um, I am the poster you quoted, and I know nothing about Haycock. To be specific, I was talking about Hunters Woods, if you must know. Point aside, if the aap kids outnumber the gen ed kids, the only possible explanation is that the center draws kids from multiple elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

TRACKING!!!! DID YOU SAY TRACKING??? OH THE HORROR....THAT IS NOT HAPPENING IN FAIRFAX COUNTY!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:in our neighborhood there are separate busses for AAP center and the gen ed. school. The kids seem to get along fine.

You do know that gen ed students attend the AAP center as well, right? Those are the students we're talking about - they ride the same bus and attend the same school. At our center, the gen ed students are now outnumbered by AAP.

I live in DC so have no dog in this fight. But if the AAP enrollment is larger, how much "smarter" can those kids be? This seems like a weird program.

And you have hit the nail on the head. This is exactly the problem.

Because the gen ed kids come from just one neighborhood, whereas the aap center includes kids from up to five different elementary schools. The proper statistic would be to look at the aap kids in the center as a percentage of the students from all the feeder schools. Of course, I completely understand the negative ramifications of one particular school, which happens to be a center school, having more aap kids than gen ed. I agree this is a problem for that school. But don't fault the program in its entirety when using wrong statistics.

OP here; the school in question is not Haycock. There are other centers which have this problem.

Um, I am the poster you quoted, and I know nothing about Haycock. To be specific, I was talking about Hunters Woods, if you must know. Point aside, if the aap kids outnumber the gen ed kids, the only possible explanation is that the center draws kids from multiple elementary schools.

Yes, of course this is the explanation. That's the very definition of a center, a school that draws kids from many other elementary schools. The point is, there really shouldn't be any schools, center or otherwise, that have a majority of AAP kids. Hunters Woods, Colvin Run, and Haycock are all examples of centers in which AAP kids either outnumber Gen Ed, or are rapidly headed in that direction. As another thread pointed out, in the Oakton, Vienna, Reston, Great Falls, McLean area of the county, there are more than enough AAP kids at each base elementary school and absolutely no need for centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So my DS came home today and said that he had the distinct pleasure (not) of sitting behind two AAP 3rd grade girls who were crowing about the fact that they were in the "smart" classes at their center school. Apparently they were arguing with another girl, saying they were smarter than her because she is not in AAP.

Because my son is a 6th grader at this school (Gen Ed), he has heard these kinds of remarks countless times and knows just to roll his eyes at the ridiculous kids who blather on like this. But he's a patrol and he felt bad for the girl they were arguing with, so he stuck up for her and told the other two to pipe down, and that they were wrong.

Parents of AAP kids: please stop telling your kids they are "smarter" than the others. They will parrot this BS back, even if you think they won't, making them even more insufferable than usual.

School counselors: if you happen to be reading this, please sit down with the AAP classes at your school and make sure these kids know that they aren't any better, smarter, or more special than the Gen Ed kids. Please ask the administration to stop treating them as such.

FCPS: please do away with centers and drastically cut back AAP admittance, or else open it up to all. You are doing our communities a disservice by dividing up kids in this way.

I'm posting this on both the AAP and VA School forums because it's an issue that affects all kids in this area. Unfortunately.

While I understand your feeling and agree that the AAP kids should learn to be respectful, you're being ridiculous by claiming those kids aren't smarter than gen ed kids, at least in a statistical sense.
Some may claim that AAP kids are not that smart since given the sheer volume of AAP admission. However, if your kids couldn't even get into this allegedly highly inflated program, there is a big chance that they're not bright at all.

[Anonymous]

As a parent of two bright kids - one at TJ and one in a private middle school - so much can affect whether a 7-year old gets tagged as gifted, which is what it takes to go without intervention into Fairfax AAP. DC1 had a second grade teacher who cared about her AAP "graduates" because she was running a combined 1st and 2nd grade class (class sizes were such this had to happen) and a lot of parents were watching. So she certainly explained how to complete the AAP tests when given. DC1 was AAP and then accepted to TJ which is a great fit so far (as evidenced by hugh grades and 99th percentile standardized test scores since then).

A few years later, same school, DC2 had a different depressed, noncommunicative 2nd grade teacher (subsequently dismissed) who could not even be sure kids didn't leave the school grounds let alone tell them how to complete the test forms. Filling out standardized test forms isn't second nature to all 2nd graders (hence the test prep). DC2 got 99% on one AAP test and 40% on another. After other testing to see if there was a cognitive issue (there wasn't) to the best we could determine the teacher simply didn't explain how to complete the test. And as a result DC2 was going to be labeled "less smart", "only average" or whatever. Instead, we went top private and DC2 is at the top of the class.

So the test results gathered by FCPS can be grossly flawed. Drawing conclusions from them across the board is a mistake. But the kids do adopt the labels. When DC2 said "it's ok mommy, I will be the athlete in the family and DC1 can be the smart one" --- coming from a 7-year old! -- I decided DC2 had to get away from that environment quickly. And results in a highly competitve private school (as well as many other standardized tests since 2nd grade) demonstrate that the measure at age 7 was just inaccurate and not predictive of anything.

So think before you call someone's 8-year old not smart. Do you really know that? The selection process is definitely biased and flawed based on luck of the draw in teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two bright kids - one at TJ and one in a private middle school - so much can affect whether a 7-year old gets tagged as gifted, which is what it takes to go without intervention into Fairfax AAP. DC1 had a second grade teacher who cared about her AAP "graduates" because she was running a combined 1st and 2nd grade class (class sizes were such this had to happen) and a lot of parents were watching. So she certainly explained how to complete the AAP tests when given. DC1 was AAP and then accepted to TJ which is a great fit so far (as evidenced by hugh grades and 99th percentile standardized test scores since then).

A few years later, same school, DC2 had a different depressed, noncommunicative 2nd grade teacher (subsequently dismissed) who could not even be sure kids didn't leave the school grounds let alone tell them how to complete the test forms. Filling out standardized test forms isn't second nature to all 2nd graders (hence the test prep). DC2 got 99% on one AAP test and 40% on another. After other testing to see if there was a cognitive issue (there wasn't) to the best we could determine the teacher simply didn't explain how to complete the test. And as a result DC2 was going to be labeled "less smart", "only average" or whatever. Instead, we went top private and DC2 is at the top of the class.

So the test results gathered by FCPS can be grossly flawed. Drawing conclusions from them across the board is a mistake. But the kids do adopt the labels. When DC2 said "it's ok mommy, I will be the athlete in the family and DC1 can be the smart one" --- coming from a 7-year old! -- I decided DC2 had to get away from that environment quickly. And results in a highly competitve private school (as well as many other standardized tests since 2nd grade) demonstrate that the measure at age 7 was just inaccurate and not predictive of anything.

So think before you call someone's 8-year old not smart. Do you really know that? The selection process is definitely biased and flawed based on luck of the draw in teachers.

Your description of the second grade teacher makes your post not believable. Even the last part bolded above shows you purely guess it was the teacher's issue, not your kid's. These teachers read a script on test days and they all do a practice run together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two bright kids - one at TJ and one in a private middle school - so much can affect whether a 7-year old gets tagged as gifted, which is what it takes to go without intervention into Fairfax AAP. DC1 had a second grade teacher who cared about her AAP "graduates" because she was running a combined 1st and 2nd grade class (class sizes were such this had to happen) and a lot of parents were watching. So she certainly explained how to complete the AAP tests when given. DC1 was AAP and then accepted to TJ which is a great fit so far (as evidenced by hugh grades and 99th percentile standardized test scores since then).

A few years later, same school, DC2 had a different depressed, noncommunicative 2nd grade teacher (subsequently dismissed) who could not even be sure kids didn't leave the school grounds let alone tell them how to complete the test forms. Filling out standardized test forms isn't second nature to all 2nd graders (hence the test prep). DC2 got 99% on one AAP test and 40% on another. After other testing to see if there was a cognitive issue (there wasn't) to the best we could determine the teacher simply didn't explain how to complete the test. And as a result DC2 was going to be labeled "less smart", "only average" or whatever. Instead, we went top private and DC2 is at the top of the class.

So the test results gathered by FCPS can be grossly flawed. Drawing conclusions from them across the board is a mistake. But the kids do adopt the labels. When DC2 said "it's ok mommy, I will be the athlete in the family and DC1 can be the smart one" --- coming from a 7-year old! -- I decided DC2 had to get away from that environment quickly. And results in a highly competitve private school (as well as many other standardized tests since 2nd grade) demonstrate that the measure at age 7 was just inaccurate and not predictive of anything.

So think before you call someone's 8-year old not smart. Do you really know that? The selection process is definitely biased and flawed based on luck of the draw in teachers.

So true. Couldn't agree more. The line dividing AAP and non-AAP is far too tiny to draw any conclusions regarding the intelligence of students, especially with the huge expansion of the program over recent years. Too bad so many parents (and their kids) use it as a way to bolster their own egos and put down the kids who aren't in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my DS came home today and said that he had the distinct pleasure (not) of sitting behind two AAP 3rd grade girls who were crowing about the fact that they were in the "smart" classes at their center school. Apparently they were arguing with another girl, saying they were smarter than her because she is not in AAP.

Because my son is a 6th grader at this school (Gen Ed), he has heard these kinds of remarks countless times and knows just to roll his eyes at the ridiculous kids who blather on like this. But he's a patrol and he felt bad for the girl they were arguing with, so he stuck up for her and told the other two to pipe down, and that they were wrong.

Parents of AAP kids: please stop telling your kids they are "smarter" than the others. They will parrot this BS back, even if you think they won't, making them even more insufferable than usual.

School counselors: if you happen to be reading this, please sit down with the AAP classes at your school and make sure these kids know that they aren't any better, smarter, or more special than the Gen Ed kids. Please ask the administration to stop treating them as such.

FCPS: please do away with centers and drastically cut back AAP admittance, or else open it up to all. You are doing our communities a disservice by dividing up kids in this way.

I'm posting this on both the AAP and VA School forums because it's an issue that affects all kids in this area. Unfortunately.

While I understand your feeling and agree that the AAP kids should learn to be respectful, you're being ridiculous by claiming those kids aren't smarter than gen ed kids, at least in a statistical sense.
Some may claim that AAP kids are not that smart since given the sheer volume of AAP admission. However, if your kids couldn't even get into this allegedly highly inflated program, there is a big chance that they're not bright at all.

This is why some AAP kids behave the way they do. I know kids in Gen Ed who are just as smart or smarter than some AAP kids. Case in point, DC and two other kids in his class were the highest performers in his second grade class--highest math group and reading group throughout the year. DC got into AAP, they didn't. There is no way those kids are "not bright at all." There are three of DC's AAP friends/classmates who get tutoring to help them keep up. When your kids get to high school and you see Gen Ed kids who are doing as well or better than your kid, you'll get how ridiculous your statement is. Until then, it's unfortunate that you might instill this way of thinking in your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two bright kids - one at TJ and one in a private middle school - so much can affect whether a 7-year old gets tagged as gifted, which is what it takes to go without intervention into Fairfax AAP. DC1 had a second grade teacher who cared about her AAP "graduates" because she was running a combined 1st and 2nd grade class (class sizes were such this had to happen) and a lot of parents were watching. So she certainly explained how to complete the AAP tests when given. DC1 was AAP and then accepted to TJ which is a great fit so far (as evidenced by hugh grades and 99th percentile standardized test scores since then).

A few years later, same school, DC2 had a different depressed, noncommunicative 2nd grade teacher (subsequently dismissed) who could not even be sure kids didn't leave the school grounds let alone tell them how to complete the test forms. Filling out standardized test forms isn't second nature to all 2nd graders (hence the test prep). DC2 got 99% on one AAP test and 40% on another. After other testing to see if there was a cognitive issue (there wasn't) to the best we could determine the teacher simply didn't explain how to complete the test. And as a result DC2 was going to be labeled "less smart", "only average" or whatever. Instead, we went top private and DC2 is at the top of the class.

So the test results gathered by FCPS can be grossly flawed. Drawing conclusions from them across the board is a mistake. But the kids do adopt the labels. When DC2 said "it's ok mommy, I will be the athlete in the family and DC1 can be the smart one" --- coming from a 7-year old! -- I decided DC2 had to get away from that environment quickly. And results in a highly competitve private school (as well as many other standardized tests since 2nd grade) demonstrate that the measure at age 7 was just inaccurate and not predictive of anything.

So think before you call someone's 8-year old not smart. Do you really know that? The selection process is definitely biased and flawed based on luck of the draw in teachers.

Your description of the second grade teacher makes your post not believable. Even the last part bolded above shows you purely guess it was the teacher's issue, not your kid's. These teachers read a script on test days and they all do a practice run together.

Are you the same poster who keeps trying to discredit people by saying their posts aren't "believable"? Frankly, it is your posts that are questionable. Clearly, you're the one with the agenda and nothing to back it up. One of the laziest ways of disagreeing with someone is to call them out as fabricators, liars, etc. because you simply don't like what they're saying. It's very simplistic and ineffective. And tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my DS came home today and said that he had the distinct pleasure (not) of sitting behind two AAP 3rd grade girls who were crowing about the fact that they were in the "smart" classes at their center school. Apparently they were arguing with another girl, saying they were smarter than her because she is not in AAP.

Because my son is a 6th grader at this school (Gen Ed), he has heard these kinds of remarks countless times and knows just to roll his eyes at the ridiculous kids who blather on like this. But he's a patrol and he felt bad for the girl they were arguing with, so he stuck up for her and told the other two to pipe down, and that they were wrong.

Parents of AAP kids: please stop telling your kids they are "smarter" than the others. They will parrot this BS back, even if you think they won't, making them even more insufferable than usual.

School counselors: if you happen to be reading this, please sit down with the AAP classes at your school and make sure these kids know that they aren't any better, smarter, or more special than the Gen Ed kids. Please ask the administration to stop treating them as such.

FCPS: please do away with centers and drastically cut back AAP admittance, or else open it up to all. You are doing our communities a disservice by dividing up kids in this way.

I'm posting this on both the AAP and VA School forums because it's an issue that affects all kids in this area. Unfortunately.

While I understand your feeling and agree that the AAP kids should learn to be respectful, you're being ridiculous by claiming those kids aren't smarter than gen ed kids, at least in a statistical sense.
Some may claim that AAP kids are not that smart since given the sheer volume of AAP admission. However, if your kids couldn't even get into this allegedly highly inflated program, there is a big chance that they're not bright at all.

This is why some AAP kids behave the way they do. I know kids in Gen Ed who are just as smart or smarter than some AAP kids. Case in point, DC and two other kids in his class were the highest performers in his second grade class--highest math group and reading group throughout the year. DC got into AAP, they didn't. There is no way those kids are "not bright at all." There are three of DC's AAP friends/classmates who get tutoring to help them keep up. When your kids get to high school and you see Gen Ed kids who are doing as well or better than your kid, you'll get how ridiculous your statement is. Until then, it's unfortunate that you might instill this way of thinking in your kid.

Yes. At the end of the day, other things count for far more than the results of some tests administered to 7-year-olds. Parents of older kids know this, even if some parents of some younger children harbor a fear that not getting into AAP will somehow demoralize and stigmatize their child for life.

Which is another reason why making a big deal out of how 8-year-olds discuss AAP, rushing to call some "bullies," and painting all AAP kids as an "insufferable" bunch, as the OP so churlishly did in her first post, was absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of two bright kids - one at TJ and one in a private middle school - so much can affect whether a 7-year old gets tagged as gifted, which is what it takes to go without intervention into Fairfax AAP. DC1 had a second grade teacher who cared about her AAP "graduates" because she was running a combined 1st and 2nd grade class (class sizes were such this had to happen) and a lot of parents were watching. So she certainly explained how to complete the AAP tests when given. DC1 was AAP and then accepted to TJ which is a great fit so far (as evidenced by hugh grades and 99th percentile standardized test scores since then).

A few years later, same school, DC2 had a different depressed, noncommunicative 2nd grade teacher (subsequently dismissed) who could not even be sure kids didn't leave the school grounds let alone tell them how to complete the test forms. Filling out standardized test forms isn't second nature to all 2nd graders (hence the test prep). DC2 got 99% on one AAP test and 40% on another. After other testing to see if there was a cognitive issue (there wasn't) to the best we could determine the teacher simply didn't explain how to complete the test. And as a result DC2 was going to be labeled "less smart", "only average" or whatever. Instead, we went top private and DC2 is at the top of the class.

So the test results gathered by FCPS can be grossly flawed. Drawing conclusions from them across the board is a mistake. But the kids do adopt the labels. When DC2 said "it's ok mommy, I will be the athlete in the family and DC1 can be the smart one" --- coming from a 7-year old! -- I decided DC2 had to get away from that environment quickly. And results in a highly competitve private school (as well as many other standardized tests since 2nd grade) demonstrate that the measure at age 7 was just inaccurate and not predictive of anything.

So think before you call someone's 8-year old not smart. Do you really know that? The selection process is definitely biased and flawed based on luck of the draw in teachers.

Your description of the second grade teacher makes your post not believable. Even the last part bolded above shows you purely guess it was the teacher's issue, not your kid's. These teachers read a script on test days and they all do a practice run together.

Are you the same poster who keeps trying to discredit people by saying their posts aren't "believable"? Frankly, it is your posts that are questionable. Clearly, you're the one with the agenda and nothing to back it up. One of the laziest ways of disagreeing with someone is to call them out as fabricators, liars, etc. because you simply don't like what they're saying. It's very simplistic and ineffective. And tiresome.

Nope...first time I've said that, so new poster. I said it because the bolded parts made her seem not believable. How does she know the teacher was discharged? What second grade teacher has trouble keeping kids from wandering off? She went from saying the teacher was "depressed" and "no communicative" to saying the "best we could determine" was it was the teacher's fault for the low test result.