Help me manage my teenager's expectations and the college visit process

[Anonymous]

OP, have you considered a school like Landmark? I know of several kids who have really thrived there: http://www.landmark.edu/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op knows her daughter better than the school counselor or even psychologist does - if she says her daughter is not trying, we should trust that. Op, I think your approach is a good one, but here is my caveat. Friends of ours did this to their daughter - no adhd just did not try at all in high school (ie, never turned in homework) despite high intelligence, so her parents said they eould only pay for community college and if she maintained a B or higher average they would pay for her last two years at an in state university - my problem with what they did was that they watched their daughter blowing off school for 3 yrs and then dropped this news on her senior year, when it was too late for her to make any real dofference in her gpa. I felt they should have made their expectstions more clear to their daughter all along.

+1. It doesn't have to be either ADD or work ethic problems -- it can be both. Some of you have decided, without knowing the child, that it's only ADD and OP must be wrong about the work ethic piece. If OP says it's BOTH, we should trust that.

I posted earlier to second the recommendation to talk to the counselor about realistic options. Don't wait until April of senior year for the results to come in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op knows her daughter better than the school counselor or even psychologist does - if she says her daughter is not trying, we should trust that. Op, I think your approach is a good one, but here is my caveat. Friends of ours did this to their daughter - no adhd just did not try at all in high school (ie, never turned in homework) despite high intelligence, so her parents said they eould only pay for community college and if she maintained a B or higher average they would pay for her last two years at an in state university - my problem with what they did was that they watched their daughter blowing off school for 3 yrs and then dropped this news on her senior year, when it was too late for her to make any real dofference in her gpa. I felt they should have made their expectstions more clear to their daughter all along.

+1. It doesn't have to be either ADD or work ethic problems -- it can be both. Some of you have decided, without knowing the child, that it's only ADD and OP must be wrong about the work ethic piece. If OP says it's BOTH, we should trust that.

I posted earlier to second the recommendation to talk to the counselor about realistic options. Don't wait until April of senior year for the results to come in.[/quote

In OP's second post she said she talked to the counselor who said her expectations were too high. She just does not like that advice. It does not fit into her fixed mindset on the definition of a "good student".

She has 2 daughters ... the one she thought she would have and the one she has. She is punishing her daughter for not being the child she hoped she would be.

She is basically mourning the loss of the imaginary life she created in her head.

It's typical for over achievers with kids that have minor LDs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op knows her daughter better than the school counselor or even psychologist does - if she says her daughter is not trying, we should trust that. Op, I think your approach is a good one, but here is my caveat. Friends of ours did this to their daughter - no adhd just did not try at all in high school (ie, never turned in homework) despite high intelligence, so her parents said they eould only pay for community college and if she maintained a B or higher average they would pay for her last two years at an in state university - my problem with what they did was that they watched their daughter blowing off school for 3 yrs and then dropped this news on her senior year, when it was too late for her to make any real dofference in her gpa. I felt they should have made their expectstions more clear to their daughter all along.

+1. It doesn't have to be either ADD or work ethic problems -- it can be both. Some of you have decided, without knowing the child, that it's only ADD and OP must be wrong about the work ethic piece. If OP says it's BOTH, we should trust that.

I posted earlier to second the recommendation to talk to the counselor about realistic options. Don't wait until April of senior year for the results to come in.

In OP's second post she said she talked to the counselor who said her expectations were too high. She just does not like that advice. It does not fit into her fixed mindset on the definition of a "good student".

She has 2 daughters ... the one she thought she would have and the one she has. She is punishing her daughter for not being the child she hoped she would be.

She is basically mourning the loss of the imaginary life she created in her head.

It's typical for over achievers with kids that have minor LDs.

[Anonymous]

I really think an excellent small college nearby ( Hood?) that is aware of her diagnosis and willing to counsel her might be helpful. If she leaves home for college one of two things will happen. She may decide, absent parents to repeal against, to study hard and get good enough grades to remain. Or she will be less accountable and get on academic probation. I think you should try and find such a college and give her the nenefit of the doubt. Tell her you expect her to study and do her best. Do not expect all As and Bs. Lots of college freshmen gets Cs and even an occasional D in a tough class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our junior, soon to be senior, has high potential, but has never really taken school seriously, despite having high potential and lots of support.

Typical grades right now are all Cs an A and a B; with the higher grades being in the "fluff" classes.

If you'd asked me freshman year, when she was more invested in her academic performance, I'd have told you I wanted to fund all of college and I'd have been open to a wide range of places. We are not rich, but we have saved, and we do have good earning potential, though again, are not wealthy.

At this point, I'm frustrated that she is getting a poor grade in classes like English because she can't even be bothered to read the book. She needs to have some skin in the game with respect to college; DH and I have never committed to her that we would fund the whole thing - we've always expressed that we would fund some and she would have student loans for some.

We've done a few college visits throughout the years; now she wants to go on more college visits this summer- some of which are 5-8 hour drives away.

Candidly I don't see ourselves funding tuition for some of these out of state schools- I'm not inclined to make the investment to visit places until we determine - if she is accepted and also what will the true cost be. If she is not accepted and receives no merit aid (I expect she will receive none), then I feel an in state community college / state school are better fits for her to mature a bit more.

I'm frustrated because my tune would be totally different if she would just try a little bit, but instead I feel she expects others to make all the effort and put very little in herself.

Any suggestions from parents in similar situations? Should I be more willing to drive all over to look at schools pre-application?

I hear that she is not working very hard and doesn't seem that invested in her school work. I think that is a very good reason to tread carefully wrt college, regardless of her abilities or learning difficulties.

Research shows very clearly that performance in/graduation from college correlated with high school grades. Right now, her grades indicate that she might have difficulty in college. College is a significant investment of time and money and you want to make sure you are investing her time and your money wisely. I don't think there is anything wrong with telling her that her school performance suggests she is not ready for college and that you aren't going to pay to send her if she's not ready.

I think you should be clear in your own mind about what alternative paths are available to her and acceptable to you. If you don't think it is a wise investment to send her away to a private college next year, what do you propose as an alternative? Do you think she should live at home and go to community college, with the idea that she needs time to mature and prove herself before (hopefully) transferring to a higher-rated college? Then be clear that you don't think she is ready for college.

Alternatively, do you think she should live at home and commute to a local 4-year that will accept someone with her grades? Or are you willing to send her away but think you should minimize your costs by paying only for in-state? Then be clear that you can only pay $x, and that means a local or in-state school unless she makes the grades that might earn her a merit scholarship. (Who knows, maybe this will be an incentive for her.)

There is nothing wrong with deciding that Private University that accepts "C" students is NOT WORTH THE COST and telling your DD that. I would have her investigate the graduation rates of the colleges she is interested in and explain that you don't think colleges that graduate less than x% of their students are worth $50k a year. Look at the stats of in-state universities and compare them with the private schools she is interested in. Explain that you don't think X College is $30k per year better than the comparable in-state school. This doesn't have to be presented as a punishment or a threat, but just the facts of the matter.

NOW is the time to have these conversations. I wouldn't go off to visit a bunch of schools without a discussion about what you are willing to pay for and under what circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op knows her daughter better than the school counselor or even psychologist does - if she says her daughter is not trying, we should trust that. Op, I think your approach is a good one, but here is my caveat. Friends of ours did this to their daughter - no adhd just did not try at all in high school (ie, never turned in homework) despite high intelligence, so her parents said they eould only pay for community college and if she maintained a B or higher average they would pay for her last two years at an in state university - my problem with what they did was that they watched their daughter blowing off school for 3 yrs and then dropped this news on her senior year, when it was too late for her to make any real dofference in her gpa. I felt they should have made their expectstions more clear to their daughter all along.

+1. It doesn't have to be either ADD or work ethic problems -- it can be both. Some of you have decided, without knowing the child, that it's only ADD and OP must be wrong about the work ethic piece. If OP says it's BOTH, we should trust that.

I posted earlier to second the recommendation to talk to the counselor about realistic options. Don't wait until April of senior year for the results to come in.

In OP's second post she said she talked to the counselor who said her expectations were too high. She just does not like that advice. It does not fit into her fixed mindset on the definition of a "good student".

She has 2 daughters ... the one she thought she would have and the one she has. She is punishing her daughter for not being the child she hoped she would be.

She is basically mourning the loss of the imaginary life she created in her head.

It's typical for over achievers with kids that have minor LDs.

What is your problem? You have created two OPs, the one that posted here, and the one that exists in your head. And you've picked the one that exists in your head, because that's the only way you can let your true nastiness gush out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op knows her daughter better than the school counselor or even psychologist does - if she says her daughter is not trying, we should trust that. Op, I think your approach is a good one, but here is my caveat. Friends of ours did this to their daughter - no adhd just did not try at all in high school (ie, never turned in homework) despite high intelligence, so her parents said they eould only pay for community college and if she maintained a B or higher average they would pay for her last two years at an in state university - my problem with what they did was that they watched their daughter blowing off school for 3 yrs and then dropped this news on her senior year, when it was too late for her to make any real dofference in her gpa. I felt they should have made their expectstions more clear to their daughter all along.

+1. It doesn't have to be either ADD or work ethic problems -- it can be both. Some of you have decided, without knowing the child, that it's only ADD and OP must be wrong about the work ethic piece. If OP says it's BOTH, we should trust that.

I posted earlier to second the recommendation to talk to the counselor about realistic options. Don't wait until April of senior year for the results to come in.

In OP's second post she said she talked to the counselor who said her expectations were too high. She just does not like that advice. It does not fit into her fixed mindset on the definition of a "good student".

She has 2 daughters ... the one she thought she would have and the one she has. She is punishing her daughter for not being the child she hoped she would be.

She is basically mourning the loss of the imaginary life she created in her head.

It's typical for over achievers with kids that have minor LDs.

What is your problem? You have created two OPs, the one that posted here, and the one that exists in your head. And you've picked the one that exists in your head, because that's the only way you can let your true nastiness gush out.

The OP is wrong. C's in HS do not indicate that she will not be successful. Time and time again people give advice that a C student should go to CC. This is just bad advice. The psychologist has given her advice and she want to go against that advice and has come here for support.

Why would you want the OP to go against her daughter's doctors advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I agree with the advice to talk to the guidance counselor about what schools are targets and reaches. Your DD needs to hear this from a neutral third party. She may not accept your opinion, and driving 6-8 hours for a college that will likely reject her seems like a waste of everybody's time.

As an added bonus, talking to the school counselor now might light a fire under her for the 1st semester if senior year, which colleges will see (unless she does ED). Whereas waiting until the rejection letters arrive next April will delay this lesson. Is there any chance you can schedule a meeting with the counselor before they go on summer vacation?

This excellent advice got buried under a lot of off-topic debate, so I am resurrecting it. (I'm a NP, for the record.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is your problem? You have created two OPs, the one that posted here, and the one that exists in your head. And you've picked the one that exists in your head, because that's the only way you can let your true nastiness gush out.

The OP is wrong. C's in HS do not indicate that she will not be successful. Time and time again people give advice that a C student should go to CC. This is just bad advice. The psychologist has given her advice and she want to go against that advice and has come here for support.

Why would you want the OP to go against her daughter's doctors advice?

Where are you getting "doctor's advice?" She talked to the school counselor. And why can you not understand that part of the problem is that OP's DD simply isn't doing the work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is your problem? You have created two OPs, the one that posted here, and the one that exists in your head. And you've picked the one that exists in your head, because that's the only way you can let your true nastiness gush out.

The OP is wrong. C's in HS do not indicate that she will not be successful. Time and time again people give advice that a C student should go to CC. This is just bad advice. The psychologist has given her advice and she want to go against that advice and has come here for support.

Why would you want the OP to go against her daughter's doctors advice?

Where are you getting "doctor's advice?" She talked to the school counselor. And why can you not understand that part of the problem is that OP's DD simply isn't doing the work?

Post #2 of OP talks about the advice her daughters psychiatrist gave her, which was, her expectations were unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

P.s. Often kids with LDs will read the cliff notes and specific important passages as well as listen to the book on tape. This is a normal way to handle learning with an LD.

[Anonymous]

Plenty of C students go to college. Plenty of C students graduate from college. Plenty of C students are C students because they don't do all their work.

I would rather my DC was a C student with a college degree, than without one. Yes you want students to strive to be better, to improve, but there is the issue of belonging and happiness contributing to reaching a goal. If DD is in a good place, a good fit for her, she will most likely finish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of C students go to college. Plenty of C students graduate from college. Plenty of C students are C students because they don't do all their work.

I would rather my DC was a C student with a college degree, than without one. Yes you want students to strive to be better, to improve, but there is the issue of belonging and happiness contributing to reaching a goal. If DD is in a good place, a good fit for her, she will most likely finish.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is your problem? You have created two OPs, the one that posted here, and the one that exists in your head. And you've picked the one that exists in your head, because that's the only way you can let your true nastiness gush out.

The OP is wrong. C's in HS do not indicate that she will not be successful. Time and time again people give advice that a C student should go to CC. This is just bad advice. The psychologist has given her advice and she want to go against that advice and has come here for support.

Why would you want the OP to go against her daughter's doctors advice?

Where are you getting "doctor's advice?" She talked to the school counselor. And why can you not understand that part of the problem is that OP's DD simply isn't doing the work?

Post #2 of OP talks about the advice her daughters psychiatrist gave her, which was, her expectations were unreasonable.

You could totally read that post as, her psychiatrist thinks her DD can succeed at an out of state school (which makes more sense than your interpretation, given that she apparently disagrees with this psychiatrist).

Look, why don't we let OP explain this? And then we -- that means you, especially -- should LISTEN to OP. That includes acknowledging OP's legitimate concerns about DD's work effort. Also, acknowledging that there's a $20-30k differential between in-state and out-of-state public universities. Also, acknowledging OP's stated willingness to pay for an in-state public university -- not just CC, as you keep claiming.