Spanish Basketball Team Salutes Their Hosts

[Anonymous]

I chalk it up to ignorance on the part of the Spaniards. I'm Asian and when I lived abroad in Europe, the slanty-eye gesture along with many other offensive gestures were a daily occurance. Some of it was meant to offend or to get a rise out of me. Others meant well, but didn't realize how offensive it is to make slanty eyes when referring to asian people. We had a babysitter once (who had recently moved to the US from a European country) was telling me a cute story about the time she took my daughter out to the playground and saw an older asian couple walking by and my daughter pointed to them and said grandpa. Except that in my babysitter's version of the story, it went something like, "...and she saw a couple (makes slanty eyes) walking by and she called "grandpa." I seriously don't think she was trying to be offensive. She just didn't know any better.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP (above post) and wanted to add that just because it's due to a lack of awareness or ignorance, does not make it ok. I think we asians have let these things slide too much. As another PP mentioned earlier, if something similar was done to offend another ethnicity or race, the outrage would've been much, much bigger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I chalk it up to ignorance on the part of the Spaniards. I'm Asian and when I lived abroad in Europe, the slanty-eye gesture along with many other offensive gestures were a daily occurance. Some of it was meant to offend or to get a rise out of me. Others meant well, but didn't realize how offensive it is to make slanty eyes when referring to asian people. We had a babysitter once (who had recently moved to the US from a European country) was telling me a cute story about the time she took my daughter out to the playground and saw an older asian couple walking by and my daughter pointed to them and said grandpa. Except that in my babysitter's version of the story, it went something like, "...and she saw a couple (makes slanty eyes) walking by and she called "grandpa." I seriously don't think she was trying to be offensive. She just didn't know any better.

I have no doubts that ignorance played a large part in their actions and everyone up and down the chain that resulted in the decision to create and publish the full-page photo in their major newspaper. Does it make it excusable? Is it with this level of ignorance that international athletes and tourists will be expected to put up with if Madrid becomes the site of the 2016 Olympics? Spaniards and every other clueless bonehead needs to get their heads out of their asses and try to learn some courtesy, etiquette, manners, & cultural sensitivity. This isn't something they did jovially in the locker room amid friends? They published the group photo with pride!

Do you think diplomats greet each other with slanty-eye actions to show their affection and solidarity with their Asian counterparts? It's not just a PC thing and you don't live on an island anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Spaniards and every other clueless bonehead needs to get their heads out of their asses and try to learn some courtesy, etiquette, manners, & cultural sensitivity.

I just have to laugh at this a bit. You do realize, of course, that Americans are usually accused of being at the top of this list?
Anyone else remember the lovely actions of the U.S. hockey team at the Nagano Games?
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't want to be associated with those hockey players any more than I'm sure most Spaniards want to be associated with their basketball team... so lets stop with criticizing entire nations based on the dumb acts of a few of its citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Spaniards and every other clueless bonehead needs to get their heads out of their asses and try to learn some courtesy, etiquette, manners, & cultural sensitivity.

I just have to laugh at this a bit. You do realize, of course, that Americans are usually accused of being at the top of this list?
Anyone else remember the lovely actions of the U.S. hockey team at the Nagano Games?
All I'm saying is, I wouldn't want to be associated with those hockey players any more than I'm sure most Spaniards want to be associated with their basketball team... so lets stop with criticizing entire nations based on the dumb acts of a few of its citizens.

Yes, that is the irony of this. The Americans look more sophisticated than the Spanish. I lived in Spain briefly and it's safe to say they are not a sophisticated lot.

I don't recall Nagano & the hockey team. What happened?

[Anonymous]

We sent a bunch of NHL players, who got drunk and trashed the Olympic village after failing to medal (or failing to win gold? I can't remember).

Acted like a bunch of juvenile pigs. I was really embarassed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Europeans are horribly racist and generally ignorant. It is extremely apparant in their complete and total lack of ability to assimilate their immigrants into their countries. They even managed to produce the worst monster in history, Hitler, and the millions looked on with apathy.

Next time you are in Germany bring up the Turks. When visiting France, find out what they think of the Arabs.

Well, you have really displayed your cultural sensitivity towards stereotyping here. You should be ashamed of your own racist drivel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is offensive and they know it. The Spaniars weren't trying to make friends that way.
BTW, the reason racism seems so prevalent in Europe is because they are much less PC than we are.

PP has a point (although I would put it differently).
One the one hand: We do live in a racist society in the United States. It is subtle but strong and many of us don't see how much it pervades our society.
On the other hand, people and institutions in the US are more sensitive than some other industrialized nations to the need to be inclusive of all races and ethnic groups in public representations of our society.
Because I was so concerned about the racism that does exist in our society, until a few years ago I didn't see how in many ways this country is more diverse (and more upfront and proud about it) than similar nations, e.g., when I visited Australia and saw how white the television shows are. They didn't even have token minorities. And when I visited the Israel Museum in 1996, I couldn't find any exhibits about the Arab citizens of Israel (nearly 20% of the population, including Druse, Palestinians, and Bedouins). These things would never happen in this country.

I'm still angry that Danny Glover can't catch a cab in NYC and that young black men are demonized in our society. We have a lot more work to do. But there are a lot of people who went before us who worked hard to bring things to where they are today. And one of those things is that a US company would never be stupid enough to ask a bunch of jocks to act the way the Spanish men's basketball team did -- and some of our jocks would also be smart enough not to go along!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europeans are horribly racist and generally ignorant. It is extremely apparant in their complete and total lack of ability to assimilate their immigrants into their countries. They even managed to produce the worst monster in history, Hitler, and the millions looked on with apathy.

Next time you are in Germany bring up the Turks. When visiting France, find out what they think of the Arabs.

Well, you have really displayed your cultural sensitivity towards stereotyping here. You should be ashamed of your own racist drivel.

ummmm, I'm white. Do do I self loathe? I actually am German to be specific and my grandfather was an SS soldier. My family did not come her on the Mayflower and I have pleanty of realtives in Germany and Austria. I stand by my comments, they are still VERY racist (you know against other races, not what you accused me of, which I think mis categorized and meant elitist).

Am I wrong? Have the immigrants assimilated in Europe well? What about the Gypsies, have they been folded into mainstream? I'm curious, have you ever lived in Europe? Have you read any books? Do you watch the news? I'm wondering....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is offensive and they know it. The Spaniars weren't trying to make friends that way.
BTW, the reason racism seems so prevalent in Europe is because they are much less PC than we are.

PP has a point (although I would put it differently).
One the one hand: We do live in a racist society in the United States. It is subtle but strong and many of us don't see how much it pervades our society.
On the other hand, people and institutions in the US are more sensitive than some other industrialized nations to the need to be inclusive of all races and ethnic groups in public representations of our society.Because I was so concerned about the racism that does exist in our society, until a few years ago I didn't see how in many ways this country is more diverse (and more upfront and proud about it) than similar nations, e.g., when I visited Australia and saw how white the television shows are. They didn't even have token minorities. And when I visited the Israel Museum in 1996, I couldn't find any exhibits about the Arab citizens of Israel (nearly 20% of the population, including Druse, Palestinians, and Bedouins). These things would never happen in this country.

I'm still angry that Danny Glover can't catch a cab in NYC and that young black men are demonized in our society. We have a lot more work to do. But there are a lot of people who went before us who worked hard to bring things to where they are today. And one of those things is that a US company would never be stupid enough to ask a bunch of jocks to act the way the Spanish men's basketball team did -- and some of our jocks would also be smart enough not to go along!

Bravo! Someone who has clearly traveled, digested, and thought about their experiecne when abroad. This coutry is light years ahead of every country I have ever visited in terms of assimilation. I have visited Africa a few times (talk about tribal, national, and racial hatred-sesh!) and each time I returned, I wanted to kiss the ground that I live in a country were people get along in peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europeans are horribly racist and generally ignorant. It is extremely apparant in their complete and total lack of ability to assimilate their immigrants into their countries. They even managed to produce the worst monster in history, Hitler, and the millions looked on with apathy.

Next time you are in Germany bring up the Turks. When visiting France, find out what they think of the Arabs.

Well, you have really displayed your cultural sensitivity towards stereotyping here. You should be ashamed of your own racist drivel.

I have to believe that the uber-PC poster here has never left the United States, and carries some idealized notion of how the rest of the world operates. Here in the U.S. we might not always succeed in being sensitive and inclusive, but at least we try. A racist remark in mixed company here, even if it's not a derisive one, is received with shock. (Witness the full-on media blitz every time some blowhard tries to be edgy with a racial epithet.) Similar remarks in Europe are the norm, and no one cares, because the company is rarely mixed. And dear god, don't get me started on the culture of racial repression in India, China and Japan.

The fact is, it remains perfectly legal in most of the world to hire (or refuse to hire) based on race, gender, and religion. Employers put these "qualifications" in their job ads, much as Americans a hundred years ago posted "Irish need not apply" signs. We've covered amazing ground. Other societies aren't even trying. And if you saw anything more of Europe than the Eiffel Tower and the Coliseum, you wouldn't even question it.

[Anonymous]

Similar remarks in Europe are the norm, and no one cares, because the company is rarely mixed. And dear god, don't get me started on the culture of racial repression in India, China and Japan.

The fact is, it remains perfectly legal in most of the world to hire (or refuse to hire) based on race, gender, and religion. Employers put these "qualifications" in their job ads, much as Americans a hundred years ago posted "Irish need not apply" signs. We've covered amazing ground. Other societies aren't even trying. And if you saw anything more of Europe than the Eiffel Tower and the Coliseum, you wouldn't even question it.

I am not the PP, but I have lived more of my adult life in Europe than I have in the US. While I think Europe certainly has it's issues relating to race, I think it is a sweeping and inaccurate statement to say that racist remarks are the norm and that nobody cares because the company is rarely mixed. My experience could not have been more different, but maybe that is just the company I kept...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Similar remarks in Europe are the norm, and no one cares, because the company is rarely mixed. And dear god, don't get me started on the culture of racial repression in India, China and Japan.

The fact is, it remains perfectly legal in most of the world to hire (or refuse to hire) based on race, gender, and religion. Employers put these "qualifications" in their job ads, much as Americans a hundred years ago posted "Irish need not apply" signs. We've covered amazing ground. Other societies aren't even trying. And if you saw anything more of Europe than the Eiffel Tower and the Coliseum, you wouldn't even question it.

I am not the PP, but I have lived more of my adult life in Europe than I have in the US. While I think Europe certainly has it's issues relating to race, I think it is a sweeping and inaccurate statement to say that racist remarks are the norm and that nobody cares because the company is rarely mixed. My experience could not have been more different, but maybe that is just the company I kept...

well i'm sure if you were a foreign national visiting some bumf**k town in the middle of nowhere america where diversity means brunettes and blonds live in the same town, you would think that america was an awfully racist country.

truth is, i think, you will find a spectrum of norms and socially acceptable speech/acts across nations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europeans are horribly racist and generally ignorant. It is extremely apparant in their complete and total lack of ability to assimilate their immigrants into their countries. They even managed to produce the worst monster in history, Hitler, and the millions looked on with apathy.

Next time you are in Germany bring up the Turks. When visiting France, find out what they think of the Arabs.
Well, you have really displayed your cultural sensitivity towards stereotyping here. You should be ashamed of your own racist drivel.

I have to believe that the uber-PC poster here has never left the United States, and carries some idealized notion of how the rest of the world operates. Here in the U.S. we might not always succeed in being sensitive and inclusive, but at least we try. And dear god, don't get me started on the culture of racial repression in India, China and Japan.

But you know what? India, China, Japan don't claim that they are a land of equal opportunity. They are not countries with a Statue of Liberty beseeching poor immigrants to come to their shores, "the poor, the tired, the hungry." If they did, then they would be held to higher standards.

I used to love Europeans, culture, way of life and thought they were so sophisticated, knowledgeable, educated, ... They do have a better education particularly when it comes to learning languages, world geography, environmental matters. For the rest, they're not that much of an advanced society.

[Anonymous]

I used to love Europeans, culture, way of life and thought they were so sophisticated, knowledgeable, educated, ... They do have a better education particularly when it comes to learning languages, world geography, environmental matters. For the rest, they're not that much of an advanced society.

How can you possibly make such blanket generalizations about a very large and very diverse continent?