To those of you who have axes to grind re: SAH vs. WOH-this post is for you!

[Anonymous]

I think there is just a disconnect between people you know IRL and random people in general.

I have friends that are SAH Moms and, while we rarely get together because I'm not free during the week, I respect them and their choices. That being said I do think there is a disconnect between highly-educated SAHM and college-educated. We've had the debate before and I won't rehash it, but bottom line I DO think its a waste of resources to train someone for many years to have them end up as SAHMs. BUT that is both a failure of our society (and jobs) as well as graduate programs. I felt like, in my training they set up many women to eventually fail or drop out once they became Moms because 1) the jobs are not friendly to families and women but 2) they promised us things had change and that it was more a problem of motivation e.g. 'women think they can't do it' vs 'the pay and hours do not match well with family life'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I SAH. I love it. It makes me happy to watch my children, cook, keep a clean house, manage it, run car pools, etc. Why is this considered so bad, or backward, or deserving of scorn?"

Are you really asking why? Because your mother could all of this, without a college or graduate degree. Because my mother did it, even though she had a college degree, and found that neither my father nor society respected her. Some people SAH because they can't get a fulfilling job and are undereducated.

Well, the flip side of this is that there are a lot of jobs (careers, even) that people can do without a college or grad degree. You don't need a college degree to SAH and you don't need one to WOH either.

But I need a graduate degree to do MY job. That's what matters to me and our family.

That's great. Really, it is, and you should be proud of yourself (I'm sure you are). But your family is NOT my family. Why can't people see that the two can freaking co-exist?

Of course women have come a long way, and no one now HAS to stay home. But some CHOOSE to stay home, and demeaning those women by telling them they are doing a disservice to society and are using their man as a plan is just as wrong and hurtful as when someone tells you that you do not value your family and care more about $, prestige, and degrees than your children. That's wrong, right? So is assuming that because someone is college educated, that automatically precludes any desire to SAH.

I have a graduate degree, and I SAH. I would be lying if I said I never felt like I was wasting that degree, but right now, at this moment, I'm doing what makes me happy, and therefore, my family is happy. That's what matters to me and our family.

Completely agree. These posts are always hilarious to me (the WOHM vs. SAHM posts) because I never come across this kind of drama in real life. I'm a SAHM with a degree who chose to stay at home after having my second child. Right now, THIS makes me happy. That's not to say that I won't go back to work when the kids are older, but this is what I want to be doing right now. I have a lot of SAHM friends and most of them have college degrees, as well; they chose to stay at home, despite some of them having graduate degrees, undergrad from Cornell, etc... there's even a couple of doctors in my playgroup that aren't practicing anymore. We're not a stupid bunch like DCUM would lead you to believe... but I take the SAHM vs. WOHM posts with a grain of salt because everything on this site is dramatic and blown out of proportion. It's kind of like a train wreck - I really enjoy reading it all, but it's nothing like my real life. Thank goodness.

[Anonymous]

"I have a graduate degree, and I SAH. I would be lying if I said I never felt like I was wasting that degree, but right now, at this moment, I'm doing what makes me happy, and therefore, my family is happy. That's what matters to me and our family. "

Isn't life about more than happiness? But more to your point, I believe there are multiple ways to happiness and of course you should SAH if that's what's best for your family overall. Our family is predicated on dual full time WOHPs - baseline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, maybe you've never been in a position to mentor or to supervise younger women, but it is utterly disheartening to see major talent, skill, acumen in one's field go to waste. After spending years and a lot of energy training young women to become future leaders in my particular field, I am disappointed when women give it up to SAH.

While there have been situations where it simply wasn't possible for a young woman to continue in the field--and for those reasons, I am completely sympathetic to giving up their careers--more often than not, I've seen young women give up without trying hard enough. Not willing to negotiate with their bosses and HR, not wanting to de-rail DH's career ("because his earning potential is so much more than mine"), or "mommy-tracking" even before they've gotten married, much less having had children.

So, what, you would rather force them into a job they hate, making them spend time away from something they clearly desire to do instead? I excelled at my job, but right now, it's not half as important to me as being home with my kids. It is sad to me that people can feel such disappointment in something that clearly makes me, and my family, very happy.

Please note, I am not talking about women who simply want to be carried by their husband, who SAH because they think they can relax all day or something. Those women usually have a rude awakening when they do have kids, and SAH is not what they expected.

I don't get working and not getting paid. I volunteer carefully and sparingly. I guess I'm just too much like a man - I want to get paid for my main job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most women SAH and WOH over the course of their children's lives, so I never understand this argument.

I have a grad degree (in a STEM field) but SAH right now because of a perfect storm of family issues, special needs child and both parents are terminally ill on the West Coast. You can scorn me all you want. I seriously cannot handle anymore stress.

I won't scorn you. (((Hugs)))). However, I do not agree that most women do both. I've never done anything other than WOH FT, and my youngest child is 12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I DO think its a waste of resources to train someone for many years to have them end up as SAHMs.

I do too. I'm not quite sure what people mean when they say they don't encounter it in real life. I admit I judge my acquaintances with graduate degrees who are SAHM's. Note I didn't say friends, because none of my close friends are SAHM's (maybe coincidence, I have no idea). I wouldn't think "OMG WHAT A GOLD DIGGER, MIGHT AS WELL BE A 50's HOUSEWIFE," but I do wonder why they bothered with the graduate degree (yes circumstances change etc, but these are women who intended to quit their jobs, and did, when they got pregnant). I don't tell them that to their faces, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a college grad and I would LOVE to be a SAHM. I don't scorn them; I am envious. WOHM is over rated. And I have a good paying, high level "career". Bah.

No grad degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most women SAH and WOH over the course of their children's lives, so I never understand this argument.

I have a grad degree (in a STEM field) but SAH right now because of a perfect storm of family issues, special needs child and both parents are terminally ill on the West Coast. You can scorn me all you want. I seriously cannot handle anymore stress.

I won't scorn you. (((Hugs)))). However, I do not agree that most women do both. I've never done anything other than WOH FT, and my youngest child is 12.

I won't scorn you either, but I do think your situation is (unfortunately) unique. Most SAHM's do not handle all that you are handling. Women who stay home because of extenuating circumstances are different than women who always intended to SAH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college grad and I would LOVE to be a SAHM. I don't scorn them; I am envious. WOHM is over rated. And I have a good paying, high level "career". Bah.

And here we have the root of the problem. I think most people who have the axes to grind are actually unhappy with their choice, whether they SAH or WAH or WOH. They secretly want to do something other than what they are doing, but for various reasons cannot work or cannot stay home (or stay at home and work pt, etc). So they pretend scorn for what they actually would rather do to make themselves feel better.

(PP, I am not saying, BTW, that you are one of those evil women-you are honest that you would rather SAH, rather than being resentful and mean to SAHMs about it. Good for you for being honest with yourself, and hopefully you can work your life so that you can SAH. GL!)

Not true. I have an axe to grind because so many people seem to think having dual WOHPs working full time is just too haaarrdd, and it's that wimpy attitude that gets to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I DO think its a waste of resources to train someone for many years to have them end up as SAHMs.

I do too. I'm not quite sure what people mean when they say they don't encounter it in real life. I admit I judge my acquaintances with graduate degrees who are SAHM's. Note I didn't say friends, because none of my close friends are SAHM's (maybe coincidence, I have no idea). I wouldn't think "OMG WHAT A GOLD DIGGER, MIGHT AS WELL BE A 50's HOUSEWIFE," but I do wonder why they bothered with the graduate degree (yes circumstances change etc, but these are women who intended to quit their jobs, and did, when they got pregnant). I don't tell them that to their faces, though.

But what do you think about a teacher or social worker who stays at home because she cannot afford the cost of child care, despite graduate degrees?

[Anonymous]

"Why is this considered so bad, or backward, or deserving of scorn? Why am I considered dull, uninteresting, and stupid? No one who knows me feels like that. "


Your post was dull and uninteresting.

[Anonymous]

"But what do you think about a teacher or social worker who stays at home because she cannot afford the cost of child care, despite graduate degrees? "

Golddiggers. It's no secret that most of wouldn't be able to afford child care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I DO think its a waste of resources to train someone for many years to have them end up as SAHMs.

I do too. I'm not quite sure what people mean when they say they don't encounter it in real life. I admit I judge my acquaintances with graduate degrees who are SAHM's. Note I didn't say friends, because none of my close friends are SAHM's (maybe coincidence, I have no idea). I wouldn't think "OMG WHAT A GOLD DIGGER, MIGHT AS WELL BE A 50's HOUSEWIFE," but I do wonder why they bothered with the graduate degree (yes circumstances change etc, but these are women who intended to quit their jobs, and did, when they got pregnant). I don't tell them that to their faces, though.

But what do you think about a teacher or social worker who stays at home because she cannot afford the cost of child care, despite graduate degrees?

Some neutral observations.

1) If she has a partner who is also earning money, then the cost of childcare should come out of BOTH their salaries, not just the teacher's/social worker's.
2) Teaching and social work are two careers that are on-rampable after off-ramping.

[Anonymous]

"But what do you think about a teacher or social worker who stays at home because she cannot afford the cost of child care, despite graduate degrees? "

Bad planning?

[Anonymous]

I live in Alexandria. WOHM. Have SAHM and WOHM friends. This drama doesn't exist there. We accept each other for who we are. Each choice has its benefits and drawbacks. And every family is different, with different needs and desires.