What would you do? E Coast (fed job, no family) vs. W Coast (no job, family)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:forest service starts at GS5. So your DH is going back to school for a Forestry degree to make somewhere between $27k and $39k a year, depending on location?

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, OP.

Read the rest of her post - there are lots of stupider things in it. You've barely scratched the surface.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, we would NOT be doing Section 8 in DC or here.

He doesn't want to be a ranger at the Forest Service -- there are office jobs that go up to GS13.

Maybe there are, but where would he start on the totem pole, and how much debt would he acquire getting the degree to even get a place on the totem pole?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, we would NOT be doing Section 8 in DC or here.

He doesn't want to be a ranger at the Forest Service -- there are office jobs that go up to GS13.

& they are not easy to come by. Think things through, OP. Are you really so naive that you don't realize how terrible the economy is? You *think* you can finish in a year, so you choose to continue acruing debt when you very well might be unemployed for a long time. a PhD in humanities wont help you land a job an easier than a MA. You will be beginning at the bottom of the food chain since you haev limited work experience. You should have spent your time doing more part-time/free lance work instead of a useless phd. You can't change the past but you can be smarter with your time and money investments in the future.

Think. Things. Through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, we would NOT be doing Section 8 in DC or here.

He doesn't want to be a ranger at the Forest Service -- there are office jobs that go up to GS13.

Govt. jobs take a notoriously long time to break into. What if your DH goes back to school, gets a degree, and doesn't get a job right away? Then what?

And I think you're deluding yourself if you DH can just step right into a GS13 job at the Forest Service just because he has a forestry degree.

FWIW, I went to the Forestry School at Yale so I'm not just speculating here. I graduated in the 90s when the economy was GOOD and it took me well over a year to get a job in my field.

[Anonymous]

OP again. Is it better to (a) stay in a job that is physically hard on my husband and has no future and in a region where we can't afford a house anyway (so the 70K doesn't get us far) and where we do not want to raise our kids than to (b) take the risk of him going back to school? I don't think so. Plenty of people take economic and job risks when they think that in the long run it will be best for their family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That's what I was thinking. It almost seems like they are a couple of whimsical kids who want to follow their dreams in the middle of a crash and burn economy. OP, at this point, nobody cares what your degree is in. Everybody who is unemployed rushes back to school during a down turn. People care about what actual skills you bring to the table on day 1.

I have had friends who work for the National Park Service and other forestry programs. It is not a lifestyle on which you support a family. Nor are many of the likely job locations in a "hopping" job market for you to seek employment in, as well.

Many of us are in less than ideal jobs. But we have responsibilities to provide for our kids. Sometimes, being an adult means you suck it up and table your dreams for the good of your family.

Could not agree more. They sound both delusional and stupid. Maybe it's better if they move back home so that they become the West Coast's problem.

[Anonymous]

OP, if your DH is making $70K now, that's right in the swing zone of a GS-12/13 in most geographical areas.

My family is made up of a lot of foresters. Some advanced quickly through the USFS, some did not. Those who did moved every 2-3 years to tiny little towns all over the US and only still "maxed" out at a GS-14 Forest Supervisor - type position.

In those towns there was rarely, if ever, any sort of university system ready to support a job for a humanities Ph.D. My dad was the GS-14 described above and my mother (God love her) barely managed to cobble together a teaching career (middle school level) due to all the moving around, recertifications, etc... We kids always were the "new kids." It was fine but, seriously, your DH ALREADY makes $70K. Unless he's pulling the wings off of flies, it can't be THAT bad!!!!

[Anonymous]

Also, I don't think he can step into a GS-13, in fact I know he won't, but at least there is that growth potential. He will be a former federal employee, so he will have preference over non-fed employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks, everyone. My thinking is in line with the person who said 'if you're going to be in agony for a year, I don't see much difference between your options.' But it is striking to me how clear the decision is to everyone, and that was what I was looking for in posting this, so thanks.

We will be paying our own moving expenses. We decided that if we go, we won't bring any of our stuff, will get just mattresses to sleep on and the rest at Goodwill. We will also be putting about 6K miles on our car to move to DC and then back here, in addition to commuting miles if we live a long way away from where my husband works (which we will probably do).

My husband makes about 70K a year (and won't be able to make much more if he stayed at the job), so we couldn't save much money unless we lived a long ways out and paid less than 1,000 in rent. He also works odd hours, gets poor sleep because of it, and is often overtired when he is awake and with us. I don't know if I can convey how miserable we've been living in DC.

As for going on public assistance, my husband would be looking for other work here but we don't know if he'll find it and how long it'll take. (As an aside, the gov't subsidizes corporations, wars, etc., and we've been paying into the system for a while now, so I don't think it's 'disgusting' that we use it to help us get through this period. I know I will get flamed for saying this....)

He really wants and needs to do something to change his career, and the Forest Service would be a good option, I think. Despite the economy, we cannot continue to live in DC indefinitely while he works hard hours, we can't afford to buy a house, etc.). He's been looking for another fed job for several years and hasn't found anything, and we both think he should go back now to finish before he's 40.

As for my degree .... yes, it's in a humanities subject that is only suitable for being academia. But I think I can finish in a year, and I think it will help my resume since I've been staying home -- i.e., if my degree is in 2012, it will look like I've been 'working' on that these years. I also have my (unrelated to my degree) freelance work on my resume.

We will look into living/working at a National Park. Our kids are 4 and 1. I don't want to live away from him for a year; it would especially be to hard on him and the kids to be apart from each other.

Look into moving to somewhere /in/ DC with an elementary that hasn't had a waitlist for in-boundary students for PK-4 because this is FREE. If it's had a waitlist for in-boundary students, you might not be able to get a spot. Between almost-free (after-care costs a little for PK) care for one child and significantly reduced commuting costs, you could pay more in rent and still come out ahead financially. See the DCPS and DC charter schools forum for info on PK. If you would plan on getting childcare for your kids anyway so you can focus on finishing your PhD or would want your 4-year-old in a preschool program anyway, living in DC for the free PK may make a lot of sense. It sounds like with your husband's crappy schedule living as close as possible to his work makes sense, and it seems like people often pay more attention to rent than commuting costs. I would move to a small, cheap apartment near your husband's job and just gut out the year. If you really focus on your PhD work, you won't have any time to worry about the friends you don't have here. Also, make sure that the forestry degree will actually advance your husband's career before he undertakes that--has he talked to managers in the Forest Service about this?

[Anonymous]

Also, I don't think a degree from Yale would get anyone hired any faster than a degree from a Western school, where there are internships and other opportunities in a region with way more national forests that in the East.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Is it better to (a) stay in a job that is physically hard on my husband and has no future and in a region where we can't afford a house anyway (so the 70K doesn't get us far) and where we do not want to raise our kids than to (b) take the risk of him going back to school? I don't think so. Plenty of people take economic and job risks when they think that in the long run it will be best for their family.

OP - stop thinking about buying a house! If he doesn't take this job you'll be on public assistance and without an income. Does that sound like a better option to you than living on $70g and renting? You are not talking about taking a job risk here you are talking about potential financial disaster.

& your husband's job is physicall hard? You know what? My dad is in his 60s and still works TWO FULL TIME JOBS to make ends meet. He has been doing this for the past 30 yrs. Suck it up and stop complaining. My God how delusional/stupid are you?!

[Anonymous]

(a). (a) is better, OP. What are the potential benefits of going back to school? Think about it:
Will he make more money? No.
Will he have a job opportunity when he gets out? Probably not.
Will forestry be less hard on him? Unlikely if he is a grunt, and the chances of him not being a grunt are nil.
How much debt will he rack up going back to school? Considerable.
How will you pay that off on a Ranger's salary? You won't. No house, no way.
How will you use your Ph.D. in the mountain village where he eventually gets a job, if he's lucky? You won't. You might as well quit school now.

That is only the beginning.

[Anonymous]

I am talking about buying a house to show that our lives in DC have no future and why he needs to change careers. You CAN buy a house on 70k in the West.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Is it better to (a) stay in a job that is physically hard on my husband and has no future and in a region where we can't afford a house anyway (so the 70K doesn't get us far) and where we do not want to raise our kids than to (b) take the risk of him going back to school? I don't think so. Plenty of people take economic and job risks when they think that in the long run it will be best for their family.

If you think it's fine for him to go back to school, whatever. I think's it's a bad decision, but it's your life. But the go on public assistance for 1 year plan? Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am talking about buying a house to show that our lives in DC have no future and why he needs to change careers. You CAN buy a house on 70k in the West.

First of all, home ownership is not "having a future." Secondly, what are the chances of you actually earning 70k in this low cost of living areas?