Are standards for fathers that low?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

A lot of these men had to be yelled at by their wives to start parenting their children. Then they started stepping up but still resent their wives for not thinking they are God's gift to women because they do 40% of the parenting and housework and bring in 50% of the household income.

No they didn't. Enough with your main character syndrome. Stop projecting your life experiences as if they're typical. They're not.

DP but you don't know all dads.

I can say that my husband and my brothers both had to be badgered into being more equal (not quite equal) parents. I do think there's a spectrum of behavior and I think one reason my SILs and I had to work so hard is because we are from a community where this was really not emphasized or encouraged. Also in the prior generation in our community, few women worked and those that did tended to have jobs that still enabled them to be primary caregivers to kids.

I live in DC now and I see a lot more involved dads and I suspect one reason why is that many of them grew up in homes where their moms were highly educated and had jobs that would have been considered not appropriate for my mom and her peers in my community (in a more rural part of the US). I am now a highly educated working mom, and I feel I am raising my kids to understand that it is not the job of women to do all the childcare and housework, and that parents can both contribute to those projects and can also both work and earn money. My DH grew up like I did and this was a bit of a culture shock for him. He did eventually get on board but when we first had a kid, he absolutely reverted to the way we grew up (he seriously did LESS at home after our first was born than he had when we were DINKS, because I think becoming a dad flipped this switch in his brain that has told him since he was a baby that men go to jobs and women take care of the home, and it had just been dormant previously in our relationship).

Many, many people in this country still grew up with the division of labor my parents and ILs had, which means there are many men becoming parents and, like my husband, struggling with the fact that their family lives look very different from what they grew up with. You can't dismiss those experiences just because you and the people you know in what I would bet is a pretty culturally and socioeconomically homogenous friend group don't have these issues. You aren't everyone.

PP who said a lot of dads have to be yelled at to start parenting.

Yes yes of course #notallmen

That's why I said "a lot of men" not "all men".

It is a very common issue among our friends. I see it when we do social gatherings with couples with young kids It is not uncommon for one of the moms to have to quietly implore her husband to take some time to care for his child/children so she can socialize.

And the biggest tell is exactly what OP identified. Men are constantly being congratulated for things nobody would dream of congratulating a woman for because if you have children you are supposed to parent them but apparently men deserve a medal for doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

A lot of these men had to be yelled at by their wives to start parenting their children. Then they started stepping up but still resent their wives for not thinking they are God's gift to women because they do 40% of the parenting and housework and bring in 50% of the household income.

No they didn't. Enough with your main character syndrome. Stop projecting your life experiences as if they're typical. They're not.

DP but you don't know all dads.

I can say that my husband and my brothers both had to be badgered into being more equal (not quite equal) parents. I do think there's a spectrum of behavior and I think one reason my SILs and I had to work so hard is because we are from a community where this was really not emphasized or encouraged. Also in the prior generation in our community, few women worked and those that did tended to have jobs that still enabled them to be primary caregivers to kids.

I live in DC now and I see a lot more involved dads and I suspect one reason why is that many of them grew up in homes where their moms were highly educated and had jobs that would have been considered not appropriate for my mom and her peers in my community (in a more rural part of the US). I am now a highly educated working mom, and I feel I am raising my kids to understand that it is not the job of women to do all the childcare and housework, and that parents can both contribute to those projects and can also both work and earn money. My DH grew up like I did and this was a bit of a culture shock for him. He did eventually get on board but when we first had a kid, he absolutely reverted to the way we grew up (he seriously did LESS at home after our first was born than he had when we were DINKS, because I think becoming a dad flipped this switch in his brain that has told him since he was a baby that men go to jobs and women take care of the home, and it had just been dormant previously in our relationship).

Many, many people in this country still grew up with the division of labor my parents and ILs had, which means there are many men becoming parents and, like my husband, struggling with the fact that their family lives look very different from what they grew up with. You can't dismiss those experiences just because you and the people you know in what I would bet is a pretty culturally and socioeconomically homogenous friend group don't have these issues. You aren't everyone.

PP who said a lot of dads have to be yelled at to start parenting.

Yes yes of course #notallmen

That's why I said "a lot of men" not "all men".

It is a very common issue among our friends. I see it when we do social gatherings with couples with young kids It is not uncommon for one of the moms to have to quietly implore her husband to take some time to care for his child/children so she can socialize.

And the biggest tell is exactly what OP identified. Men are constantly being congratulated for things nobody would dream of congratulating a woman for because if you have children you are supposed to parent them but apparently men deserve a medal for doing it.

Why is it beyond your comprehension that Men don’t appreciate being patronized like that in the first place? You’re acting like men benefit from this dynamic when it really means that most people don’t trust men to be adequate caregivers? Men are being stereotyped with this crap and somehow you think women are the victims?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Had a kid recently and people are impressed I know how to make a bottle saying a lot of fathers don’t. Seems wild.

Seems wild to me that a “man” would start a post on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, definitely. I'm (F) divorced and my ex and I coparent 50/50 and live a block apart. We have two daughters and because CANNOT BELIEVE that he puts their hair in ponytails, draws with them, takes them to activities/appointments, or rides bikes with them to school.

The neighbors all offer to take the kids/invite them over for playdates on his weekends. On my weekends, they send their kids down to my house to ring my bell and ask if they can come in.

He volunteers at school and the moms all get giddy and throw themselves at him - the dad who volunteers at school! Oh my!

He is publicly praised ALL THE TIME for what an amazing dad he is, that he stayed involved after divorce, etc.

When in reality, our kids lives were ripped apart because he is a chronic liar and cheater. He volunteered at school because he was unemployed for 10 months. He rides bikes with them because he lost his license in a DUI.

If he is a chronic liar, this would not have started after you two had children. You chose to have multiple children with him knowing this. Don’t pretend you are a martyr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

+2

My uncle and his wife, both in their seventies, visited last month. They were amazed that my husband was putting our toddler to bed. (And they are both classic educated liberals, so not MAGA types or anything.)

All men I’ve met are equally sexist. Liberals just try to hide it and cloak their sexism in what they think feminism is. For example, all the millennial men I know think they are so feminist for expecting women to be men. They want women to wait until 35+ to have kids because they (the men) don’t want to grow up before then, and they treat women who consider their biology in their career decisions as pathetic and unambitious. They are hostile to pregnant coworkers who want or need accommodations at work because they are grossed out by the differences of female biology, yet they call this callousness feminism (which obviously it is not).

I get mad when people hold liberal men up on a pedestal as if they are actually more feminist and have evolved. It’s the same garbage just in a more insidious package. At least conservative men will tell you to your face you are less-than instead of gaslighting you about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

+2

My uncle and his wife, both in their seventies, visited last month. They were amazed that my husband was putting our toddler to bed. (And they are both classic educated liberals, so not MAGA types or anything.)

All men I’ve met are equally sexist. Liberals just try to hide it and cloak their sexism in what they think feminism is. For example, all the millennial men I know think they are so feminist for expecting women to be men. They want women to wait until 35+ to have kids because they (the men) don’t want to grow up before then, and they treat women who consider their biology in their career decisions as pathetic and unambitious. They are hostile to pregnant coworkers who want or need accommodations at work because they are grossed out by the differences of female biology, yet they call this callousness feminism (which obviously it is not).

I get mad when people hold liberal men up on a pedestal as if they are actually more feminist and have evolved. It’s the same garbage just in a more insidious package. At least conservative men will tell you to your face you are less-than instead of gaslighting you about it.

I don't 100% agree with everything in this comment but there's a lot of truth here.

There are huge gaps between the professed beliefs of many progressives and their actual behavior and choices. And people tend to be much more progressive in theory or when discussing other people, especially people they view as very different from themselves, than they are when making choices that affect their own lives. It's very, very hard for people to sacrifice a big advantage to progressive ideals. This applies to men and women, people of all races and backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

+2

My uncle and his wife, both in their seventies, visited last month. They were amazed that my husband was putting our toddler to bed. (And they are both classic educated liberals, so not MAGA types or anything.)

All men I’ve met are equally sexist. Liberals just try to hide it and cloak their sexism in what they think feminism is. For example, all the millennial men I know think they are so feminist for expecting women to be men. They want women to wait until 35+ to have kids because they (the men) don’t want to grow up before then, and they treat women who consider their biology in their career decisions as pathetic and unambitious. They are hostile to pregnant coworkers who want or need accommodations at work because they are grossed out by the differences of female biology, yet they call this callousness feminism (which obviously it is not).

I get mad when people hold liberal men up on a pedestal as if they are actually more feminist and have evolved. It’s the same garbage just in a more insidious package. At least conservative men will tell you to your face you are less-than instead of gaslighting you about it.

Liberal women are driving this sexism as well. Singling out men is simply bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

A lot of these men had to be yelled at by their wives to start parenting their children. Then they started stepping up but still resent their wives for not thinking they are God's gift to women because they do 40% of the parenting and housework and bring in 50% of the household income.

No they didn't. Enough with your main character syndrome. Stop projecting your life experiences as if they're typical. They're not.

DP but you don't know all dads.

I can say that my husband and my brothers both had to be badgered into being more equal (not quite equal) parents. I do think there's a spectrum of behavior and I think one reason my SILs and I had to work so hard is because we are from a community where this was really not emphasized or encouraged. Also in the prior generation in our community, few women worked and those that did tended to have jobs that still enabled them to be primary caregivers to kids.

I live in DC now and I see a lot more involved dads and I suspect one reason why is that many of them grew up in homes where their moms were highly educated and had jobs that would have been considered not appropriate for my mom and her peers in my community (in a more rural part of the US). I am now a highly educated working mom, and I feel I am raising my kids to understand that it is not the job of women to do all the childcare and housework, and that parents can both contribute to those projects and can also both work and earn money. My DH grew up like I did and this was a bit of a culture shock for him. He did eventually get on board but when we first had a kid, he absolutely reverted to the way we grew up (he seriously did LESS at home after our first was born than he had when we were DINKS, because I think becoming a dad flipped this switch in his brain that has told him since he was a baby that men go to jobs and women take care of the home, and it had just been dormant previously in our relationship).

Many, many people in this country still grew up with the division of labor my parents and ILs had, which means there are many men becoming parents and, like my husband, struggling with the fact that their family lives look very different from what they grew up with. You can't dismiss those experiences just because you and the people you know in what I would bet is a pretty culturally and socioeconomically homogenous friend group don't have these issues. You aren't everyone.

PP who said a lot of dads have to be yelled at to start parenting.

Yes yes of course #notallmen

That's why I said "a lot of men" not "all men".

It is a very common issue among our friends. I see it when we do social gatherings with couples with young kids It is not uncommon for one of the moms to have to quietly implore her husband to take some time to care for his child/children so she can socialize.

And the biggest tell is exactly what OP identified. Men are constantly being congratulated for things nobody would dream of congratulating a woman for because if you have children you are supposed to parent them but apparently men deserve a medal for doing it.

Why is it beyond your comprehension that Men don’t appreciate being patronized like that in the first place? You’re acting like men benefit from this dynamic when it really means that most people don’t trust men to be adequate caregivers? Men are being stereotyped with this crap and somehow you think women are the victims?

You may feel like these comments are patronizing but many of the men I know totally internalize those comments and think they are the most amazing people ever for parenting their own children. Maybe stop homogenizing men.

[Anonymous]

Wow there's a lot of seething hate for men out there. Hard not to laugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow there's a lot of seething hate for men out there. Hard not to laugh.

Men aren’t getting even 1/100th of the anger they deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

A lot of these men had to be yelled at by their wives to start parenting their children. Then they started stepping up but still resent their wives for not thinking they are God's gift to women because they do 40% of the parenting and housework and bring in 50% of the household income.

No they didn't. Enough with your main character syndrome. Stop projecting your life experiences as if they're typical. They're not.

DP but you don't know all dads.

I can say that my husband and my brothers both had to be badgered into being more equal (not quite equal) parents. I do think there's a spectrum of behavior and I think one reason my SILs and I had to work so hard is because we are from a community where this was really not emphasized or encouraged. Also in the prior generation in our community, few women worked and those that did tended to have jobs that still enabled them to be primary caregivers to kids.

I live in DC now and I see a lot more involved dads and I suspect one reason why is that many of them grew up in homes where their moms were highly educated and had jobs that would have been considered not appropriate for my mom and her peers in my community (in a more rural part of the US). I am now a highly educated working mom, and I feel I am raising my kids to understand that it is not the job of women to do all the childcare and housework, and that parents can both contribute to those projects and can also both work and earn money. My DH grew up like I did and this was a bit of a culture shock for him. He did eventually get on board but when we first had a kid, he absolutely reverted to the way we grew up (he seriously did LESS at home after our first was born than he had when we were DINKS, because I think becoming a dad flipped this switch in his brain that has told him since he was a baby that men go to jobs and women take care of the home, and it had just been dormant previously in our relationship).

Many, many people in this country still grew up with the division of labor my parents and ILs had, which means there are many men becoming parents and, like my husband, struggling with the fact that their family lives look very different from what they grew up with. You can't dismiss those experiences just because you and the people you know in what I would bet is a pretty culturally and socioeconomically homogenous friend group don't have these issues. You aren't everyone.

PP who said a lot of dads have to be yelled at to start parenting.

Yes yes of course #notallmen

That's why I said "a lot of men" not "all men".

It is a very common issue among our friends. I see it when we do social gatherings with couples with young kids It is not uncommon for one of the moms to have to quietly implore her husband to take some time to care for his child/children so she can socialize.

And the biggest tell is exactly what OP identified. Men are constantly being congratulated for things nobody would dream of congratulating a woman for because if you have children you are supposed to parent them but apparently men deserve a medal for doing it.

There's a marriage counselor who gives talks. I watched one of them, and he was saying how men roll out of bed, and they think they should get 500 points just for that. Obviously, he was kidding, but it speaks to the thread.. society has a low bar for men in general in terms of parenting and house chores.

[Anonymous]

I hate these threads. I guess it depends on your social circle. No one in mine (mostly two working parents) would find this notable at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yup. I’m divorced now, and xH will take off for 3 weeks at a time to travel leaving me with the kids, or will dump them at my house weekends he’s supposed to have custody because he’s “too stressed” to deal with them. Nobody bats an eye, his mom even enables him with “she’s the mom, she’s supposed to watch them, you deserve a break”.

I hope you document and are able to get addl child support when you have them especially unexpectedly during his time.

[Anonymous]

My husband also experienced a lot of that when my DD18 and DS15 were little. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate these threads. I guess it depends on your social circle. No one in mine (mostly two working parents) would find this notable at all

Same. Most of the Dads in my neighborhood/circle are perfectly capable of caring for babies and kids solo (millennial Dads).