Are standards for fathers that low?

[Anonymous]

I'm 40 and thankfully the men in our circle are involved dads. DH has been amazing from day 1. Not surprisingly, he's also a great husband. He's the primary contact for school and half of DS' activities and I'm so thankful that those in charge actually read the forms and call him first.

The only thing that drove me nuts is when people would say things like "oh you're so lucky he's babysitting DS so you can do X". Uh, no, he's his dad. He's not babysitting.

[Anonymous]

Yes, definitely. I'm (F) divorced and my ex and I coparent 50/50 and live a block apart. We have two daughters and because CANNOT BELIEVE that he puts their hair in ponytails, draws with them, takes them to activities/appointments, or rides bikes with them to school.

The neighbors all offer to take the kids/invite them over for playdates on his weekends. On my weekends, they send their kids down to my house to ring my bell and ask if they can come in.

He volunteers at school and the moms all get giddy and throw themselves at him - the dad who volunteers at school! Oh my!

He is publicly praised ALL THE TIME for what an amazing dad he is, that he stayed involved after divorce, etc.

When in reality, our kids lives were ripped apart because he is a chronic liar and cheater. He volunteered at school because he was unemployed for 10 months. He rides bikes with them because he lost his license in a DUI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the standards are very low. It's good you recognize it. Never let those low standards allow you to lower your own standards.

Also it's good to be aware of exactly how HIGH the standards for your wife are. Like as you are getting pats on the back for knowing how to make a bottle, your wife is over there being judged for literally every aspect of parenting even the crap she could not possibly control even if she tried.

If you understand this dynamic, it will save you a lot of marital strain. You can start now by telling her, tonight, how impressed you are with what it took for her to have this baby and what a great mom she's already shaping up to be. Like pay forward those compliments you received for putting together a single bottle (and that you will receive for simply being seen in public with your child, buying food at the grocery store, simply knowing your child's teacher's names, etc.) and give them to your wife who will NEVER get a compliment for any of that stuff and will instead be criticized for doing it wrong no matter how she does it.

This is really good advice. My husband is an equal parent. When he goes out with all three kids (1, 4, and 6) people will BUY HIM COFFEE because "he has his hands full" and he's "such a great dad!" This has happened several times. He is literally showered with compliments any time he steps a foot out the door.

Meanwhile, the last time I was out with all three by myself, some frowny boomer came up to me and said "Your baby needs a hat." I have literally never had a stranger compliment my parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

A lot of these men had to be yelled at by their wives to start parenting their children. Then they started stepping up but still resent their wives for not thinking they are God's gift to women because they do 40% of the parenting and housework and bring in 50% of the household income.

No they didn't. Enough with your main character syndrome. Stop projecting your life experiences as if they're typical. They're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, definitely. I'm (F) divorced and my ex and I coparent 50/50 and live a block apart. We have two daughters and because CANNOT BELIEVE that he puts their hair in ponytails, draws with them, takes them to activities/appointments, or rides bikes with them to school.

The neighbors all offer to take the kids/invite them over for playdates on his weekends. On my weekends, they send their kids down to my house to ring my bell and ask if they can come in.

He volunteers at school and the moms all get giddy and throw themselves at him - the dad who volunteers at school! Oh my!

He is publicly praised ALL THE TIME for what an amazing dad he is, that he stayed involved after divorce, etc.

When in reality, our kids lives were ripped apart because he is a chronic liar and cheater. He volunteered at school because he was unemployed for 10 months. He rides bikes with them because he lost his license in a DUI.

What a loser

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

A lot of these men had to be yelled at by their wives to start parenting their children. Then they started stepping up but still resent their wives for not thinking they are God's gift to women because they do 40% of the parenting and housework and bring in 50% of the household income.

No they didn't. Enough with your main character syndrome. Stop projecting your life experiences as if they're typical. They're not.

DP but you don't know all dads.

I can say that my husband and my brothers both had to be badgered into being more equal (not quite equal) parents. I do think there's a spectrum of behavior and I think one reason my SILs and I had to work so hard is because we are from a community where this was really not emphasized or encouraged. Also in the prior generation in our community, few women worked and those that did tended to have jobs that still enabled them to be primary caregivers to kids.

I live in DC now and I see a lot more involved dads and I suspect one reason why is that many of them grew up in homes where their moms were highly educated and had jobs that would have been considered not appropriate for my mom and her peers in my community (in a more rural part of the US). I am now a highly educated working mom, and I feel I am raising my kids to understand that it is not the job of women to do all the childcare and housework, and that parents can both contribute to those projects and can also both work and earn money. My DH grew up like I did and this was a bit of a culture shock for him. He did eventually get on board but when we first had a kid, he absolutely reverted to the way we grew up (he seriously did LESS at home after our first was born than he had when we were DINKS, because I think becoming a dad flipped this switch in his brain that has told him since he was a baby that men go to jobs and women take care of the home, and it had just been dormant previously in our relationship).

Many, many people in this country still grew up with the division of labor my parents and ILs had, which means there are many men becoming parents and, like my husband, struggling with the fact that their family lives look very different from what they grew up with. You can't dismiss those experiences just because you and the people you know in what I would bet is a pretty culturally and socioeconomically homogenous friend group don't have these issues. You aren't everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Had a kid recently and people are impressed I know how to make a bottle saying a lot of fathers don’t. Seems wild.

It's changing, I think. But in general: yes.

When we had our first I remember the first time we went out to brunch I was babywearing her, when she got fussy I took her out of the restaurant, I fed her, I got her to fall sleep, and then I handed her over to her dad to hold her so I could eat. The moment, the literal minute, that he sat down with her in his arms a waitress from another table came over and told him he was the Father of the Year. For holding a sleeping child. The same child I had been wrangling with no recognition for the better part of an hour. Luckily all the people at our table were parents and the moms and dads all had the same "the bar is in Hell" reaction, because if he had been receptive to that level of praise for that level of effort I probably would have resented it deeply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

+2

My uncle and his wife, both in their seventies, visited last month. They were amazed that my husband was putting our toddler to bed. (And they are both classic educated liberals, so not MAGA types or anything.)

[Anonymous]

My dad is a boomer and he had 50/50 custody of me when I was growing up. He was single and did everything. Cooked, cleaned, did my hair, decorated the house, fixed the car, mowed the lawn, etc. I guess you do what you have to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had a kid recently and people are impressed I know how to make a bottle saying a lot of fathers don’t. Seems wild.

It's changing, I think. But in general: yes.

When we had our first I remember the first time we went out to brunch I was babywearing her, when she got fussy I took her out of the restaurant, I fed her, I got her to fall sleep, and then I handed her over to her dad to hold her so I could eat. The moment, the literal minute, that he sat down with her in his arms a waitress from another table came over and told him he was the Father of the Year. For holding a sleeping child. The same child I had been wrangling with no recognition for the better part of an hour. Luckily all the people at our table were parents and the moms and dads all had the same "the bar is in Hell" reaction, because if he had been receptive to that level of praise for that level of effort I probably would have resented it deeply.

I had the same experience! I was taking care of the baby for an extended period of time, which is NORMAL, and within 10 minutes of my husband just holding her while she looked around calmly an older lady came by and gushed over how amazing he was. For holding his own child. I don’t think men realize how unbelievably low the bar is most of the time but that time my husband was dumbstruck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had a kid recently and people are impressed I know how to make a bottle saying a lot of fathers don’t. Seems wild.

It's changing, I think. But in general: yes.

When we had our first I remember the first time we went out to brunch I was babywearing her, when she got fussy I took her out of the restaurant, I fed her, I got her to fall sleep, and then I handed her over to her dad to hold her so I could eat. The moment, the literal minute, that he sat down with her in his arms a waitress from another table came over and told him he was the Father of the Year. For holding a sleeping child. The same child I had been wrangling with no recognition for the better part of an hour. Luckily all the people at our table were parents and the moms and dads all had the same "the bar is in Hell" reaction, because if he had been receptive to that level of praise for that level of effort I probably would have resented it deeply.

I had the same experience! I was taking care of the baby for an extended period of time, which is NORMAL, and within 10 minutes of my husband just holding her while she looked around calmly an older lady came by and gushed over how amazing he was. For holding his own child. I don’t think men realize how unbelievably low the bar is most of the time but that time my husband was dumbstruck.

We have a family we are good friends with who has a kid near in age to ours, and we discovered by accident when the girls were really little that if we sent the dads somewhere to wait in line with the girls, people would fall all over themselves trying to help them and in this way we'd get faster service, free food, the best table, etc. when we went out. If the other mom and I had the girls, people would ignore us. If the two dads had them, it was like a celebrity had arrived.

I think for a lot of people it's just an instinctual response, because the expectation is that men won't care about kids or participate in parenting at all, and they can't help but fawn over them when they do. It's depressing but I guess at least it reflects a desire to see men caring for kids? There's no excuse for the way moms are treated like garbage a lot of the time, though. Especially when other mothers do it. I'm like "you know! you know how it is, and you still pull this crap."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Had a kid recently and people are impressed I know how to make a bottle saying a lot of fathers don’t. Seems wild.

That’s just a stereotype and stereotypes are ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Had a kid recently and people are impressed I know how to make a bottle saying a lot of fathers don’t. Seems wild.

We are in our 60's. Happily married for 35 years and my husband was a very hands on dad, with changing diapers, burping, rocking kids to sleep, feeding them, bathing and dressing them.

He was an equal parent and then he also made sure that we outsourced some chores (not childcare) so that neither one of us was exhausted. He looked after me too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s that boomers didn’t make their husbands do anything. My mom went on and on about how my dad never changed a diaper. When I had my kids, he quietly learned how to change a diaper and changed my kids if they were wet when he was playing with them (often. He saw them daily). He told me my mom criticized everything he did and didn’t let him.

Millennial men step up. They still might be lacking on emotional labor things like planning holidays or even cleaning a home. But I see mostly men at daycare pickup and drop offs. I was at an elementary school field trip today and it was half dads as chaperones. Men are at the playground en masse on the weekends with their kids.

My dh rarely makes bottles. I EBF at home and on weekends, but pump for daycare. I make all the bottles because I have a way of mixing the milk and I made it all so I remember which bottle was morning milk, etc.

Lol to this comment. Can we just talk about what you did here?

It's boomers fault, but not all boomers -- just women. Women are responsible for deciding what their husbands do.

My dad is actually a competent parent but my mother simply never let him do anything, which is why he didn't.

Millenial men are way better, they do way more. I mean not planning things or cleaning things, but high visibility/low effort things like taking their kids to and from school or standing looking at their phone while their kids play at playgrounds.

I don't let my husband feed our baby or have anything to do with bottles because only I know how to do it and he would just screw it up (twist! you're your mom!).

It's like you looked up a list of every misogynist trope about women and parenting and were trying to score a Yahtzee or something.

+1 lol That's how I read that, too. I was like.. wut?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had a kid recently and people are impressed I know how to make a bottle saying a lot of fathers don’t. Seems wild.

That’s just a stereotype and stereotypes are ignorant.

Stereotypes come from somewhere though. Obviously, one should not generalize traits, however, it is true that women still do most of the childcare, and that would include making a bottle. But, I do think millennial men are more involved than the previous generations.

FWIW, my DH (end of boomer gen from Europe) not only knew how to make a bottle, but he pureed all of DC's food (and he was better at it), changed the diapers (did all of it the first few days because I had a csection), etc. The only thing he couldn't do was breastfeed, but I think he would've happily held the baby up to my breast to feed DC if he got see my naked breast.

I will say he wasn't great about seeing to their needs when they were sick, though. He's very much a "tough it out" kind of person. That bothered me.

He's also super handy around the house. He just fixed a clogged sink today, had to take the pipes out and everything.