A few years ago, there was a woman here who 'tricked' her xH into giving her full custody....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're talking about, but did play the long game with my custody file. I took them back every single time he didn't want them anymore. This was extremely inconvenient sometimes, but it wasn't my kid's fault that their dad couldn't deal. Often he'd bring one home at 9pm, the other would say they'd want to stay but then at 10pm the other one would be getting dropped off, too.

The kids were brought back to me:
- if they were in bad moods
- if he was in a bad mood
- if they had a cold and he wanted to go do something
- if they needed help
- if he wanted to see his married neighbor
- if they were talking too much
- if they weren't getting along
- if he had a bad day
- if they were hungry

He had hardly any time to begin with. I documented on a calendar page printout for each month, and when it came down to it, he barely actually had them. He didn't want to be a parent so he wasn't given parenting time. He wanted to have them, but they were little and they needed a parent. He did want custody, but honestly I think a lot of that was about the girlfriend.

His temper led to other abuse going on and his behavior and history of behavior caught up with him. He got supervised visits for a while until neither kid wanted to go to those because they were rough - the supervisor had to keep telling him to stop doing xyz.

Then, he wanted 50/50 parenting but we were way past that being any realm of possibility because by that point, he hadn't seen them in a long long time. He was given a list of things he could do if he wanted to resume contact (such as treatment for alcohol addiction, anger management, understanding age appropriate expectations for behavior, that the kids can't be blamed for his behavior, etc). He chose not to do any of it and that was it.

Op is t saying that’s the situation. They want specific ways to set up dad to fail to prevent him for seeing the kids. I.e. don’t answer dad’s calls, text or emails then claim no contact. Refuse visits then say he doesn’t see the kids. Have the kids make up stories of abuse and neglect - tell them they story enough times or bribe the, to believe it and repeat it. Have the kids refuse to go with dad by bribing them.

Let me guess, your wife turned the kids against you and you have no idea why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're talking about, but did play the long game with my custody file. I took them back every single time he didn't want them anymore. This was extremely inconvenient sometimes, but it wasn't my kid's fault that their dad couldn't deal. Often he'd bring one home at 9pm, the other would say they'd want to stay but then at 10pm the other one would be getting dropped off, too.

The kids were brought back to me:
- if they were in bad moods
- if he was in a bad mood
- if they had a cold and he wanted to go do something
- if they needed help
- if he wanted to see his married neighbor
- if they were talking too much
- if they weren't getting along
- if he had a bad day
- if they were hungry

He had hardly any time to begin with. I documented on a calendar page printout for each month, and when it came down to it, he barely actually had them. He didn't want to be a parent so he wasn't given parenting time. He wanted to have them, but they were little and they needed a parent. He did want custody, but honestly I think a lot of that was about the girlfriend.

His temper led to other abuse going on and his behavior and history of behavior caught up with him. He got supervised visits for a while until neither kid wanted to go to those because they were rough - the supervisor had to keep telling him to stop doing xyz.

Then, he wanted 50/50 parenting but we were way past that being any realm of possibility because by that point, he hadn't seen them in a long long time. He was given a list of things he could do if he wanted to resume contact (such as treatment for alcohol addiction, anger management, understanding age appropriate expectations for behavior, that the kids can't be blamed for his behavior, etc). He chose not to do any of it and that was it.

Op is t saying that’s the situation. They want specific ways to set up dad to fail to prevent him for seeing the kids. I.e. don’t answer dad’s calls, text or emails then claim no contact. Refuse visits then say he doesn’t see the kids. Have the kids make up stories of abuse and neglect - tell them they story enough times or bribe the, to believe it and repeat it. Have the kids refuse to go with dad by bribing them.

Let me guess, your wife turned the kids against you and you have no idea why.

I know why. Her affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s not tricking anyone. It’s just being smart about not being confrontational and the custody ended up falling where it naturally should based on each parents’ actual interest in parenting.

+1

Jsut give the work addict a way to save face and still be Disney dad a couple times a year, and they’ll happily eat it up.
After all, they are so so busy and important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be honest. Don't play games and hurt your kids. Waive child support or him paying for anything and tell him and them they can never see each other again. You will deeply hurt your kids but who cares as long as your wants are met.

MRA alert.

If you want to be the sole parent, be it. He shouldn’t be an atm while you cut him out out of the kids lives.

Of course he should. He is 50% responsible for creating this human being. No take backs.

No courts these days will not give fathers (or mothers) 50% joint custody unless they are horrifically abusive/neglectful; or he/she chooses to abdicate custody. If a parent ends up with sole custody, it is was a mutually agreed upon decision.

The discussion is about her having full custody and him having no or low contact.

Well nobody knows what the arrangement actually was …

This

It prob was 50/50 and he walked it back over the first few months, in practice. Ended at 90/10 and that was better for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids know neglect from age 12 onward.

Being refused to custody is not neglect if he’s being prevented.

Like the PP said. People and kids know neglect when they see it.
Do you? Your comment seems very confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tricked, as in, she was able to document that he regularly relinquished his custody time, and therefore she was entitled to full custody because he was not interested in parenting? Or just persuaded her husband to just formalize the fact that he hardly ever had the kids?

OP. The former. Going through this with my xH, he keeps giving up his custody time. He took off for 3 weeks a few months back with little notice, and this weekend he decided he didn’t want the kids because he didn’t feel like doing Easter.

I’m trying to be agreeable and am offering to keep the kids for most of the summer because he hasn’t been able to line up childcare for when he works. Rather than taking him to court, I’m hoping in the next year or two I can propose that I get custody of the kids. If I try to fight him he’ll resist, but if I play nice I think he’ll give in to it.

Ultimately it’s because I want to move back to my hometown, where I’ll have family support.

Also, he doesn’t pay child support. I’m willing to forgo that.

Why does he need to do Easter? Send a basket with the kids and be done with it.

Lol. Yeah, backup and send everything plus written expectations and the summarize the kids’ school, tests and EC obligations and any appointments. Mange the calendar for him and many reminders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're talking about, but did play the long game with my custody file. I took them back every single time he didn't want them anymore. This was extremely inconvenient sometimes, but it wasn't my kid's fault that their dad couldn't deal. Often he'd bring one home at 9pm, the other would say they'd want to stay but then at 10pm the other one would be getting dropped off, too.

The kids were brought back to me:
- if they were in bad moods
- if he was in a bad mood
- if they had a cold and he wanted to go do something
- if they needed help
- if he wanted to see his married neighbor
- if they were talking too much
- if they weren't getting along
- if he had a bad day
- if they were hungry

He had hardly any time to begin with. I documented on a calendar page printout for each month, and when it came down to it, he barely actually had them. He didn't want to be a parent so he wasn't given parenting time. He wanted to have them, but they were little and they needed a parent. He did want custody, but honestly I think a lot of that was about the girlfriend.

His temper led to other abuse going on and his behavior and history of behavior caught up with him. He got supervised visits for a while until neither kid wanted to go to those because they were rough - the supervisor had to keep telling him to stop doing xyz.

Then, he wanted 50/50 parenting but we were way past that being any realm of possibility because by that point, he hadn't seen them in a long long time. He was given a list of things he could do if he wanted to resume contact (such as treatment for alcohol addiction, anger management, understanding age appropriate expectations for behavior, that the kids can't be blamed for his behavior, etc). He chose not to do any of it and that was it.

Ugh, tough on the kids but sounds like they were young and the stakes weren’t too high (mental issues, anxiety producing, school stress, acting out too much).

Any chance he’s “changed,” and going back to court for his time back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're talking about, but did play the long game with my custody file. I took them back every single time he didn't want them anymore. This was extremely inconvenient sometimes, but it wasn't my kid's fault that their dad couldn't deal. Often he'd bring one home at 9pm, the other would say they'd want to stay but then at 10pm the other one would be getting dropped off, too.

The kids were brought back to me:
- if they were in bad moods
- if he was in a bad mood
- if they had a cold and he wanted to go do something
- if they needed help
- if he wanted to see his married neighbor
- if they were talking too much
- if they weren't getting along
- if he had a bad day
- if they were hungry

He had hardly any time to begin with. I documented on a calendar page printout for each month, and when it came down to it, he barely actually had them. He didn't want to be a parent so he wasn't given parenting time. He wanted to have them, but they were little and they needed a parent. He did want custody, but honestly I think a lot of that was about the girlfriend.

His temper led to other abuse going on and his behavior and history of behavior caught up with him. He got supervised visits for a while until neither kid wanted to go to those because they were rough - the supervisor had to keep telling him to stop doing xyz.

Then, he wanted 50/50 parenting but we were way past that being any realm of possibility because by that point, he hadn't seen them in a long long time. He was given a list of things he could do if he wanted to resume contact (such as treatment for alcohol addiction, anger management, understanding age appropriate expectations for behavior, that the kids can't be blamed for his behavior, etc). He chose not to do any of it and that was it.

Op is t saying that’s the situation. They want specific ways to set up dad to fail to prevent him for seeing the kids. I.e. don’t answer dad’s calls, text or emails then claim no contact. Refuse visits then say he doesn’t see the kids. Have the kids make up stories of abuse and neglect - tell them they story enough times or bribe the, to believe it and repeat it. Have the kids refuse to go with dad by bribing them.

Usually these such “dads” fail on their own accord. It’s obvious to everyone then.

Some don’t want to go to court during the work day, to further save face. So they agree to terms but do whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just be honest. Don't play games and hurt your kids. Waive child support or him paying for anything and tell him and them they can never see each other again. You will deeply hurt your kids but who cares as long as your wants are met.

MRA alert.

If you want to be the sole parent, be it. He shouldn’t be an atm while you cut him out out of the kids lives.

Bruh, paying for the kids he sired is literally the least he could do. Men who don't want to actively be involved in their children's lives should pay support. If he wanted to be an involved dad, or pay less, he could've fought for custody. Note that he didn't before continuing to argue in his defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're talking about, but did play the long game with my custody file. I took them back every single time he didn't want them anymore. This was extremely inconvenient sometimes, but it wasn't my kid's fault that their dad couldn't deal. Often he'd bring one home at 9pm, the other would say they'd want to stay but then at 10pm the other one would be getting dropped off, too.

The kids were brought back to me:
- if they were in bad moods
- if he was in a bad mood
- if they had a cold and he wanted to go do something
- if they needed help
- if he wanted to see his married neighbor
- if they were talking too much
- if they weren't getting along
- if he had a bad day
- if they were hungry

He had hardly any time to begin with. I documented on a calendar page printout for each month, and when it came down to it, he barely actually had them. He didn't want to be a parent so he wasn't given parenting time. He wanted to have them, but they were little and they needed a parent. He did want custody, but honestly I think a lot of that was about the girlfriend.

His temper led to other abuse going on and his behavior and history of behavior caught up with him. He got supervised visits for a while until neither kid wanted to go to those because they were rough - the supervisor had to keep telling him to stop doing xyz.

Then, he wanted 50/50 parenting but we were way past that being any realm of possibility because by that point, he hadn't seen them in a long long time. He was given a list of things he could do if he wanted to resume contact (such as treatment for alcohol addiction, anger management, understanding age appropriate expectations for behavior, that the kids can't be blamed for his behavior, etc). He chose not to do any of it and that was it.

Op is t saying that’s the situation. They want specific ways to set up dad to fail to prevent him for seeing the kids. I.e. don’t answer dad’s calls, text or emails then claim no contact. Refuse visits then say he doesn’t see the kids. Have the kids make up stories of abuse and neglect - tell them they story enough times or bribe the, to believe it and repeat it. Have the kids refuse to go with dad by bribing them.

What? The OP said she was taking the kids for most of the summer because her ex didn’t set up childcare. She didn’t say she was bribing them or refusing his calls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And talk to a lawyer. Why is he not paying child support? Are your incomes similar enough that it evens out or should he technically be paying? If the latter, you may have some leverage to negotiate for moving away where you can have free help.

OP. Yes, our incomes are similar. He makes *slightly* more, but for the $100 a month I’d get, not worth making him angry because he’ll be more strict about getting the kids 50% of the time as a punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're talking about, but did play the long game with my custody file. I took them back every single time he didn't want them anymore. This was extremely inconvenient sometimes, but it wasn't my kid's fault that their dad couldn't deal. Often he'd bring one home at 9pm, the other would say they'd want to stay but then at 10pm the other one would be getting dropped off, too.

The kids were brought back to me:
- if they were in bad moods
- if he was in a bad mood
- if they had a cold and he wanted to go do something
- if they needed help
- if he wanted to see his married neighbor
- if they were talking too much
- if they weren't getting along
- if he had a bad day
- if they were hungry

He had hardly any time to begin with. I documented on a calendar page printout for each month, and when it came down to it, he barely actually had them. He didn't want to be a parent so he wasn't given parenting time. He wanted to have them, but they were little and they needed a parent. He did want custody, but honestly I think a lot of that was about the girlfriend.

His temper led to other abuse going on and his behavior and history of behavior caught up with him. He got supervised visits for a while until neither kid wanted to go to those because they were rough - the supervisor had to keep telling him to stop doing xyz.

Then, he wanted 50/50 parenting but we were way past that being any realm of possibility because by that point, he hadn't seen them in a long long time. He was given a list of things he could do if he wanted to resume contact (such as treatment for alcohol addiction, anger management, understanding age appropriate expectations for behavior, that the kids can't be blamed for his behavior, etc). He chose not to do any of it and that was it.

OP. Thanks, this is really helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tricked, as in, she was able to document that he regularly relinquished his custody time, and therefore she was entitled to full custody because he was not interested in parenting? Or just persuaded her husband to just formalize the fact that he hardly ever had the kids?

OP. The former. Going through this with my xH, he keeps giving up his custody time. He took off for 3 weeks a few months back with little notice, and this weekend he decided he didn’t want the kids because he didn’t feel like doing Easter.

I’m trying to be agreeable and am offering to keep the kids for most of the summer because he hasn’t been able to line up childcare for when he works. Rather than taking him to court, I’m hoping in the next year or two I can propose that I get custody of the kids. If I try to fight him he’ll resist, but if I play nice I think he’ll give in to it.

Ultimately it’s because I want to move back to my hometown, where I’ll have family support.

Also, he doesn’t pay child support. I’m willing to forgo that.

I don’t see any “tricking” here. He may be in denial about what is actions are going to end up doing to him but that’s his issue. As long as you are not actively blocking the kids from seeing him and are willing to make an effort to ensure they keep a relationship after you move, you aren’t doing anything wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're talking about, but did play the long game with my custody file. I took them back every single time he didn't want them anymore. This was extremely inconvenient sometimes, but it wasn't my kid's fault that their dad couldn't deal. Often he'd bring one home at 9pm, the other would say they'd want to stay but then at 10pm the other one would be getting dropped off, too.

The kids were brought back to me:
- if they were in bad moods
- if he was in a bad mood
- if they had a cold and he wanted to go do something
- if they needed help
- if he wanted to see his married neighbor
- if they were talking too much
- if they weren't getting along
- if he had a bad day
- if they were hungry

He had hardly any time to begin with. I documented on a calendar page printout for each month, and when it came down to it, he barely actually had them. He didn't want to be a parent so he wasn't given parenting time. He wanted to have them, but they were little and they needed a parent. He did want custody, but honestly I think a lot of that was about the girlfriend.

His temper led to other abuse going on and his behavior and history of behavior caught up with him. He got supervised visits for a while until neither kid wanted to go to those because they were rough - the supervisor had to keep telling him to stop doing xyz.

Then, he wanted 50/50 parenting but we were way past that being any realm of possibility because by that point, he hadn't seen them in a long long time. He was given a list of things he could do if he wanted to resume contact (such as treatment for alcohol addiction, anger management, understanding age appropriate expectations for behavior, that the kids can't be blamed for his behavior, etc). He chose not to do any of it and that was it.

Op is t saying that’s the situation. They want specific ways to set up dad to fail to prevent him for seeing the kids. I.e. don’t answer dad’s calls, text or emails then claim no contact. Refuse visits then say he doesn’t see the kids. Have the kids make up stories of abuse and neglect - tell them they story enough times or bribe the, to believe it and repeat it. Have the kids refuse to go with dad by bribing them.

The chances a real human being does anything you listed are vanishingly rare. The chance the kids may chose to do this on their own due to dad's own behavior (as in the post you quoted)? Much higher. The stats on abuse and divorce cases that go to court are stunning, and the stats on how abusers treat their kids, even if they didn't directly involve them before separation, are also not great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s not tricking anyone. It’s just being smart about not being confrontational and the custody ended up falling where it naturally should based on each parents’ actual interest in parenting.

This. This. This.

Parenting is a shared responsibility and with two adults acting in good faith, time and money will be allocated aligned to strengths.

Set that as you intention and focus on the long game.