How to talk to DH about my feelings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)

And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.

I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.

Well this is fair. It's not about your income or even, really, about an inequitable work load. It's more about him not seeming to give a damn about the family. The money he brings in is never going to replace that.

If he says that he can't maintain his job *and* show some kind of interest in the family, then the next step is that he'd be expected to find a new job. Which might, in turn, result in less money for the household. I assume you'd be ok with a lower economic status in exchange for him being a full member of the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is bringing up income in the context of household responsibilities a dick move?

If she works outside of the home as much as he does but makes way less, that seems like an opportunity for her to do fewer hours working - because the household finances won't take so much of a hit - and reduce her overall workload.

If her lower income is a reflection of fewer hours worked outside the home, then its fair to consider that in terms of equitable overall workload.

That shouldn't be the whole discussion. I can totally see guys blowing off any concerns at all about equitable contributions to the household. (Sounds a lot like OP's husband is doing just that.) But I don't see why relative income is off limits entirely.

Because it is a dick move. I work full time. I make more than my husband, and still do more at home. It never occurred to me to bring money into "division of labor" talks. One, even though he makes less, he is working hard and his job simply doesn't lend itself to working fewer hours. It's always men who feel that simply because they bring in a paycheck, they can do little or nothing at home.

I don't get this. Maintaining a household requires a certain combined level of effort. Part of that effort is doing the sort of work that generates the money necessary to finance the household. It's arbitrary to ignore that slice of the effort when discussing overall division of labor.

So, in your mind, even though we both work 40+ hours outside of home, one of us gets a pass on a whole lot of stuff because one of us brings in a bit more? So let's say I'm a nurse working on my feet all day long and bring in 70K (I'm not a nurse and don't really know how much they make, just using it as an example) and he is a lawyer working in house making 300K, he gets to come home and prop his feet up while I have to take on a second job at home becasue my profession is not as lucrative. I can guarantee that a nurse is working 10 times harder than an in-house lawyer.

It's not a matter of getting a pass. But if one person works 50 hours to make $300k and the other person works 50 hours to make $50k and the couple is overwhelmed between the effort required to work both jobs and take care of the house/family, it would be rational to dial back the hours spent on the $50k job and devote those hours to household effort. Cut back expenditures to account for the lost income.

I'm the PP. Just read OP's description of the problem. My thoughts here just don't apply. It doesn't look like the combined workload is really the problem. It's that OP's husband isn't doing anything with the family except financing it. That's not going to be a healthy dynamic no matter how you allocate the hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)

And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.

I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.

Frankly you sound bored and manufacturing problems. It is entirely rational for the person making all of the money to want and expect to do less housework.

He is his own person, and you can't make him want anything. Yes, it would nice if husbands (and wives) all wanted to do the dishes and fold laundry regardless of income, but we live in reality.

I suggest stop being petty and demanding and tell him this part "I'd like for you to have a more active role in our lives". And then ASK HIM what things he would enjoying doing with the family. Movie nights? Ski trips? Camping trips?

It is important to understand that not all feelings are valid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)

And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.

I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.

Frankly you sound bored and manufacturing problems. It is entirely rational for the person making all of the money to want and expect to do less housework.

He is his own person, and you can't make him want anything. Yes, it would nice if husbands (and wives) all wanted to do the dishes and fold laundry regardless of income, but we live in reality.

I suggest stop being petty and demanding and tell him this part "I'd like for you to have a more active role in our lives". And then ASK HIM what things he would enjoying doing with the family. Movie nights? Ski trips? Camping trips?

It is important to understand that not all feelings are valid.

Why is it reasonable that he gets completely check out at home? I would bet my year's salary you're a man who does jack shit in the house and think your paycheck is enough contribution.

Did he not participate in creating a family? Does he not eat the food that's prepared? Does he not live in the house that needs the maintenance and upkeep?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)

And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.

I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.

Frankly you sound bored and manufacturing problems. It is entirely rational for the person making all of the money to want and expect to do less housework.

He is his own person, and you can't make him want anything. Yes, it would nice if husbands (and wives) all wanted to do the dishes and fold laundry regardless of income, but we live in reality.

I suggest stop being petty and demanding and tell him this part "I'd like for you to have a more active role in our lives". And then ASK HIM what things he would enjoying doing with the family. Movie nights? Ski trips? Camping trips?

It is important to understand that not all feelings are valid.

I thank my lucky stars I'm not married to an idiot like you.

[Anonymous]

Are you sure he is not having an affair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he is not having an affair?

I mean I guess no one can be certain but he mostly works from home and we share all our passwords and I could look at his phone any time. He hasn’t done anything to raise my guard in that sense. He just gets some weird motivation from making big piles of money that he won’t spend. And the more he works the more he makes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)

And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.

I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.

Maybe consider therapy. The income comment was a dig... not cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)

And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.

I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.

Well this is fair. It's not about your income or even, really, about an inequitable work load. It's more about him not seeming to give a damn about the family. The money he brings in is never going to replace that.

If he says that he can't maintain his job *and* show some kind of interest in the family, then the next step is that he'd be expected to find a new job. Which might, in turn, result in less money for the household. I assume you'd be ok with a lower economic status in exchange for him being a full member of the family.

I know that you meant this as a “gotcha,” but I don’t know a woman who doesn’t feel this way.

“Would you rather live in a big house where you are lonely and unloved, or would you rather live in a small house where you and your children feel loved, secure, and protected by your spouse?”

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry. Does he do anything for fun?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry. Does he do anything for fun?

He likes to watch sports and do fantasy leagues with his college and grad school friends. He does like to go on vacations with us thankfully (that I plan of course) even though he often has to work at times during them.

[Anonymous]

I would raise it differently, this has nothing to do with him aside from your desire to have him do some of the things that you have traditionally owned. Men love solving problems for their loved ones, so instead of delegating tasks tell him you appreciate all he does and how his mind works. Then ask him to help you figure out a way to have a few nights with less responsibilities and more fun especially if you too can enjoy those nights together.

Or how about- I am feeling stressed out/ overwhelmed and would love to blow off some steam with you. Want to go out and make the kids fend for themselves tonight? Then- that was fun, I miss that, we should do this every week….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)

And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.

I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.

Well this is fair. It's not about your income or even, really, about an inequitable work load. It's more about him not seeming to give a damn about the family. The money he brings in is never going to replace that.

If he says that he can't maintain his job *and* show some kind of interest in the family, then the next step is that he'd be expected to find a new job. Which might, in turn, result in less money for the household. I assume you'd be ok with a lower economic status in exchange for him being a full member of the family.

I know that you meant this as a “gotcha,” but I don’t know a woman who doesn’t feel this way.

“Would you rather live in a big house where you are lonely and unloved, or would you rather live in a small house where you and your children feel loved, secure, and protected by your spouse?”

Except it never really is put that way.

We obviously don't know OP's financial circumstances, but a lot of people who feel like they could "live on less" either don't know or haven't really thought about what they would be giving up. It is not just a big versus a small house. First of all, once you've bought the big house, then it's hard to move. There might be private schools, lots of extra curriculars, a vacation house, a few vacations. multiple cars (none of which are beaters). Then there are the more subtle advantages of a high income -- never having to shop around, never worrying about day to day expenses, being able to take care of family if necessary, treating your friends, maybe even being able to hang out with the fancy people you've become friends with.

It sounds like OP's issue is not about "talking about feelings." It is that she wants her husband to work less and be around more. But for whatever reason, he obviously thinks differently. She should talk about finances with him. She should ask him about his goals in life, and whether he even wants to work less. And if he does want to work less, what is stopping that. Maybe OP's not really seeing the full financial picture.

Regardless, going about this discussion by guilting him about not being involved in cooking dinner is the absolute silliest way to have that conversation. A better conversation would be to acknowledge the tradeoff between time and money, acknowledge the incredible advantages of a high income, and then discuss whether everyone is happy with that tradeoff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we get insight into what the 'flaws' were? I think the context may be relevant.

Maybe do a couple of the same group at one go?

But surely after 20 years he’s aware of his shortcomings and the setbacks they cause in you and the household. And been told of them and to shape up.

He doesn’t care. He’s lazy about this. About changing his bad habits and faults.

Plus he’s immature when told he dropped the ball against and you must fix it, and be yelled at if you bring up a concern. Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry. Does he do anything for fun?

He likes to watch sports and do fantasy leagues with his college and grad school friends. He does like to go on vacations with us thankfully (that I plan of course) even though he often has to work at times during them.

He’s just a tag along. I bet he barely knows his own kids.