Objectively speaking, what harm is caused by illegal immigration? (Thought experiment)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn’t have illegal immigration because it’s illegal. Our country is based on the rule of law. Don’t do illegal stuff. This goes for Trump as well. I’m opposed to law-breaking. It’s unfair to everyone else and causes disorder and chaos.

I’m fine with lots of high-quality immigrants who are smart and hard-working and can support themselves and their family and love America, as long as it’s through legal channels.

If we do need people to fill jobs, then open up visas (not the abuse of HxB that we currently have going on). So truly has to be based on need. I grew up with 1st Gen kids who didn't speak English in the home. They all had homes (small) or an apartment and a car.
Nobody was living crammed into an apartment with other families, etc. with kids unsupervised because they had work around the clock.

And yes, people need to be screened for illnesses like Aids, etc before they are allowed in so they don't become public charges.

[Anonymous]

Not only visas but sponsors, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An unregulated immigration system simply provides entry to anybody who has the opportunity or resources to cross the border, regardless of what they can contribute, whether they are the best person to do that, and their likelihood of being able to integrate.

A regulated immigration system should (ideally) identify those people who can best contribute to a country. It should identify skill gaps and ways to assess the best people to fill these. It should also screen for any medical conditions or health issues.

For example, ideally you want anybody immigrating to a country to be a healthcare worker to have verifiable qualifications and to be screened for TB, HIV, maybe syphilis, etc.

Healthcare workers are not routinely screened for HIV for hiring - only if they had an accident resulting in their own exposure to a patient's blood/bodily fluid.

Syphilis? Hahaha no we are not screened for that. TB, yes. Measles/MMR, varicella, sure, we are screened for immunity/prior vaccination.

I think you misunderstood. I’m saying a healthcare worker applying to immigrate to the US should be screened, not that healthcare workers already here are screened. Is that not the case?

Hospitals do that screening, yes, I was clarifying what they screen for. Thr Syphilis suggestion was kind of funny.

Anyhow, hospitald screen the same no matter if you are a US citizen or not, so for that particular job, the government does not need to handle screening. You would not be barred from the job if not immune, just vaccinated for what you are missing. My hospital has an entire occupational health department that oversees that.

TB would really be the one concern, but we don't have an adequate vaccine for it. There is a BCG vaccine for TB in some countries but it is kind of irrelevant as it is mostly done for prevention of TB meningitis in children, but does not adequately prevent pulmonary TB (which would be the contagious form). We would check for latent TB (not contagious) and treat it and screen to ensure it is not active/pulmonary TB. But again, that screening is done by hospitals for US citizens as well as we still have TB in the US and healthcare workers are already higher risk.

So a doctor or nurse immigrating from sub-Saharan Africa where there is a much higher risk of HIV or AIDS wouldn’t be screened before being permitted to immigrate? Shouldn’t this be a disqualifying factor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn’t have illegal immigration because it’s illegal. Our country is based on the rule of law. Don’t do illegal stuff. This goes for Trump as well. I’m opposed to law-breaking. It’s unfair to everyone else and causes disorder and chaos.

I’m fine with lots of high-quality immigrants who are smart and hard-working and can support themselves and their family and love America, as long as it’s through legal channels.

If we do need people to fill jobs, then open up visas (not the abuse of HxB that we currently have going on). So truly has to be based on need. I grew up with 1st Gen kids who didn't speak English in the home. They all had homes (small) or an apartment and a car.
Nobody was living crammed into an apartment with other families, etc. with kids unsupervised because they had work around the clock.

And yes, people need to be screened for illnesses like Aids, etc before they are allowed in so they don't become public charges.

If they are working and here legally, they would be getting health insurance just like anyone else. HIV screening really would not matter in public burden anymore than anyone else with HIV who works and has insurance (life expectancy is the same with HIV treatment, they live just as long).

TB screening would be most important. I forget if it is one third or one fourth of the world population that is infected(!!) as at least a latent carrier. Latent carriers can become active/contagious at some point so we would want to treat for it as a preventive measure.

[Anonymous]

^^ Back to the way things were supposed to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frumpy middle-aged wallflowers would simply find another cause for their fake outrage.

Why are they so worked up about illegal immigration right now? Ae they competing for the same jobs?

I was involved in an accident in California 8 years ago in San Onofre. A lawnmower fell of a truck and bashed the front of my rental car. Police were called. Driver had a Mexican driver license and no insurance. The police wrote the report as uninsured and let him drive away. No license. No citation. I kid you not! Rental company picked up the tab for the damage and I had luckily bought the rental insurance, but they really pestered me to go back to my insurance company and foist it on them. It was a mess. Driver was never heard from.

There are two sets of rules. I would have never have gotten away with that. Things have gotten way out of control over time and it's high time to pull it back in. There are a slew of second and third order effects of illegal immigration; things you never hear about. The more "fair" this system becomes, the more unfair it becomes in actuality.

[Anonymous]

Why have traffic laws? I’m not harming you by driving 80 mph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn’t have illegal immigration because it’s illegal. Our country is based on the rule of law. Don’t do illegal stuff. This goes for Trump as well. I’m opposed to law-breaking. It’s unfair to everyone else and causes disorder and chaos.

I’m fine with lots of high-quality immigrants who are smart and hard-working and can support themselves and their family and love America, as long as it’s through legal channels.

If we do need people to fill jobs, then open up visas (not the abuse of HxB that we currently have going on). So truly has to be based on need. I grew up with 1st Gen kids who didn't speak English in the home. They all had homes (small) or an apartment and a car.
Nobody was living crammed into an apartment with other families, etc. with kids unsupervised because they had work around the clock.

And yes, people need to be screened for illnesses like Aids, etc before they are allowed in so they don't become public charges.

If they are working and here legally, they would be getting health insurance just like anyone else. HIV screening really would not matter in public burden anymore than anyone else with HIV who works and has insurance (life expectancy is the same with HIV treatment, they live just as long).

TB screening would be most important. I forget if it is one third or one fourth of the world population that is infected(!!) as at least a latent carrier. Latent carriers can become active/contagious at some point so we would want to treat for it as a preventive measure.

My great GF's visa was rejected due to his vision. He needed eyeglasses! The US did not want to pay for that. Fortunately, he was able to get them, reapply and get here. People need to have health screenings so we are not paying for treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An unregulated immigration system simply provides entry to anybody who has the opportunity or resources to cross the border, regardless of what they can contribute, whether they are the best person to do that, and their likelihood of being able to integrate.

A regulated immigration system should (ideally) identify those people who can best contribute to a country. It should identify skill gaps and ways to assess the best people to fill these. It should also screen for any medical conditions or health issues.

For example, ideally you want anybody immigrating to a country to be a healthcare worker to have verifiable qualifications and to be screened for TB, HIV, maybe syphilis, etc.

Healthcare workers are not routinely screened for HIV for hiring - only if they had an accident resulting in their own exposure to a patient's blood/bodily fluid.

Syphilis? Hahaha no we are not screened for that. TB, yes. Measles/MMR, varicella, sure, we are screened for immunity/prior vaccination.

I think you misunderstood. I’m saying a healthcare worker applying to immigrate to the US should be screened, not that healthcare workers already here are screened. Is that not the case?

Hospitals do that screening, yes, I was clarifying what they screen for. Thr Syphilis suggestion was kind of funny.

Anyhow, hospitald screen the same no matter if you are a US citizen or not, so for that particular job, the government does not need to handle screening. You would not be barred from the job if not immune, just vaccinated for what you are missing. My hospital has an entire occupational health department that oversees that.

TB would really be the one concern, but we don't have an adequate vaccine for it. There is a BCG vaccine for TB in some countries but it is kind of irrelevant as it is mostly done for prevention of TB meningitis in children, but does not adequately prevent pulmonary TB (which would be the contagious form). We would check for latent TB (not contagious) and treat it and screen to ensure it is not active/pulmonary TB. But again, that screening is done by hospitals for US citizens as well as we still have TB in the US and healthcare workers are already higher risk.

So a doctor or nurse immigrating from sub-Saharan Africa where there is a much higher risk of HIV or AIDS wouldn’t be screened before being permitted to immigrate? Shouldn’t this be a disqualifying factor?

Healthcare workers work with HIV every day in our country. No, not a disqualifying factor, does not put patients at risk. Hospitals do not screen for HIV ln hiring practices.

And again, what is it to you if they work legally and buy their own health insurance to cover their own meds?

TB is a concern to screen for but as I stated, hospitals screen for this anyway. As a general public health concern, yes we should screen immigrants for TB, and it does not need to prevent them from immigrating here for work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn’t have illegal immigration because it’s illegal. Our country is based on the rule of law. Don’t do illegal stuff. This goes for Trump as well. I’m opposed to law-breaking. It’s unfair to everyone else and causes disorder and chaos.

I’m fine with lots of high-quality immigrants who are smart and hard-working and can support themselves and their family and love America, as long as it’s through legal channels.

If we do need people to fill jobs, then open up visas (not the abuse of HxB that we currently have going on). So truly has to be based on need. I grew up with 1st Gen kids who didn't speak English in the home. They all had homes (small) or an apartment and a car.
Nobody was living crammed into an apartment with other families, etc. with kids unsupervised because they had work around the clock.

And yes, people need to be screened for illnesses like Aids, etc before they are allowed in so they don't become public charges.

If they are working and here legally, they would be getting health insurance just like anyone else. HIV screening really would not matter in public burden anymore than anyone else with HIV who works and has insurance (life expectancy is the same with HIV treatment, they live just as long).

TB screening would be most important. I forget if it is one third or one fourth of the world population that is infected(!!) as at least a latent carrier. Latent carriers can become active/contagious at some point so we would want to treat for it as a preventive measure.

My great GF's visa was rejected due to his vision. He needed eyeglasses! The US did not want to pay for that. Fortunately, he was able to get them, reapply and get here. People need to have health screenings so we are not paying for treatment.

If they are working, we are not paying for their treatment.

[Anonymous]

(Report by Center for Immigration Studies published 12-10-2025) This study is readily available online.

Welfare use rates in MN by household:

(1) ANY welfare
-Native Minnesotans: 21%
-Somali immigrant households: 81%
-Somali immigrant households here > 10yrs: 78%

(2) Cash assistance
-Native Minnesotans: 6%
-Somali immigrant households: 27%
-Somali immigrant households here > 10yrs: 25%

(3) Food Stamps
-Native Minnesotans: 7%
-Somali immigrant households: 54%
-Somali immigrant households here > 10yrs: 48%

(4) Medicaid
-Native Minnesotans: 18%
-Somali immigrant households: 73%
-Somali immigrant households here >10 yrs: 68%

[Anonymous]

https://www.cato.org/blog/deportations-add-almost-1-trillion-costs-gops-big-beautiful-bill

Deportations to Add Almost $1 Trillion in Costs to the “Big Beautiful Bill”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn’t have illegal immigration because it’s illegal. Our country is based on the rule of law. Don’t do illegal stuff. This goes for Trump as well. I’m opposed to law-breaking. It’s unfair to everyone else and causes disorder and chaos.

I’m fine with lots of high-quality immigrants who are smart and hard-working and can support themselves and their family and love America, as long as it’s through legal channels.

If we do need people to fill jobs, then open up visas (not the abuse of HxB that we currently have going on). So truly has to be based on need. I grew up with 1st Gen kids who didn't speak English in the home. They all had homes (small) or an apartment and a car.
Nobody was living crammed into an apartment with other families, etc. with kids unsupervised because they had work around the clock.

And yes, people need to be screened for illnesses like Aids, etc before they are allowed in so they don't become public charges.

If they are working and here legally, they would be getting health insurance just like anyone else. HIV screening really would not matter in public burden anymore than anyone else with HIV who works and has insurance (life expectancy is the same with HIV treatment, they live just as long).

TB screening would be most important. I forget if it is one third or one fourth of the world population that is infected(!!) as at least a latent carrier. Latent carriers can become active/contagious at some point so we would want to treat for it as a preventive measure.

My great GF's visa was rejected due to his vision. He needed eyeglasses! The US did not want to pay for that. Fortunately, he was able to get them, reapply and get here. People need to have health screenings so we are not paying for treatment.

If they are working, we are not paying for their treatment.

This assumes all have and maintain jobs with healthcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is significant cost to school systems for the extra seats, plus extra ESL and other services.

What I wonder about is families of English Learners are paying taxes towards those seats. They pay rent and their landlord then pays taxes from that rent, or they own and pay taxes. So, yeah when enrollment goes up, then costs go up, but more people living in an area means more money for the township. My experiences teaching in schools has demonstrated that while yes, EL's need special services, they truly get next to nothing. I mean, I taught in a city school with 500 kids and I was the only EL teacher. 200/500 qualified for services. So, they were getting maybe 30 minutes of push in support each week. It isn't much. Plus,most of the kids who qualify for EL support come from families who are here legally. So, not sure how much money having undocumented folks actually "cost". Plus when you figure in the tremendous amount of economic activity immigrants bring in, the amount of taxes their businesses bring, the amount they pay in stores, etc, I suspect they give more than they take.
I live in Chicago and while everyone knows about Michigan Avenue, many people don't know about 26th Street in Little Village that is the 2nd highest economic generator in the entire state. That area is nearly entirely Spanish speaking with lots of immigrants, documented and undocumented.

You think their landlords are reporting the income they receive, likely in cash, from illegal aliens? Bless you.

That's a different problem. Americans are a greedy nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frumpy middle-aged wallflowers would simply find another cause for their fake outrage.

Why are they so worked up about illegal immigration right now? Ae they competing for the same jobs?

I was involved in an accident in California 8 years ago in San Onofre. A lawnmower fell of a truck and bashed the front of my rental car. Police were called. Driver had a Mexican driver license and no insurance. The police wrote the report as uninsured and let him drive away. No license. No citation. I kid you not! Rental company picked up the tab for the damage and I had luckily bought the rental insurance, but they really pestered me to go back to my insurance company and foist it on them. It was a mess. Driver was never heard from.

There are two sets of rules. I would have never have gotten away with that. Things have gotten way out of control over time and it's high time to pull it back in. There are a slew of second and third order effects of illegal immigration; things you never hear about. The more "fair" this system becomes, the more unfair it becomes in actuality.

I hate ICE and I mean HATE ICE. But in this matter, I agree with you. If someone causes an accident and doesn't have insurance, they should be written a ticket, fined, and have to pay the person back, even over time if needed. Both undocumented people and all the Americans without car insurance shouldn't be driving.