School discipline is back and Mink and Jwando are upset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need actual classes for kids who need more support. Not everyone needs to be integrated. I've seen these kids in ES who are allowed to wander around and be extremely disruptive. Least restrictive does not work for everyone. We had a kid throwing chairs in ES for 2 years. That kids needs so much more and by MS and HS it would be a serious problem.

I seriously doubt the kids with diagnoses and behavioral plans are the kids getting suspended.

Not quite. If you look at suspension data, many of the kids who get suspended are in fact special needs. The most disciplined students in MCPS are Black, male and special needs. There's clearly a correlation with suspension data and being special needs, which suggests the way MCPS is supposedly supporting or not supporting special needs students is not working.

This would be a double standard if such kids don't get suspended for let's say bringing a weapon to school but a white kid who brings a weapon to school does get suspended. Or if such a kid wasn't suspended for being violent, but a Hispanic kid is suspended for the same thing.

The disparities in suspension generally don't tend to happen for the extreme examples like bringing a weapon to school. It's the more lower level offenses such as "disrupting the classroom" or "disrespect" where you see Black kids suspended more than White kids.

Isn’t it possible that the kids are getting suspended based on their behaviors and not due to skin color? It’s a fact that more minority students join gangs. It’s a fact that home discipline in lower educated areas tends to have more violence. So maybe the issue is not the schools, but the kids? Schools cannot change home life!

And how is not having consequences helping these kids for the future? No workplace is going to allow a fraction of the discipline issues that are in schools right now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need actual classes for kids who need more support. Not everyone needs to be integrated. I've seen these kids in ES who are allowed to wander around and be extremely disruptive. Least restrictive does not work for everyone. We had a kid throwing chairs in ES for 2 years. That kids needs so much more and by MS and HS it would be a serious problem.

I seriously doubt the kids with diagnoses and behavioral plans are the kids getting suspended.

Not quite. If you look at suspension data, many of the kids who get suspended are in fact special needs. The most disciplined students in MCPS are Black, male and special needs. There's clearly a correlation with suspension data and being special needs, which suggests the way MCPS is supposedly supporting or not supporting special needs students is not working.

This would be a double standard if such kids don't get suspended for let's say bringing a weapon to school but a white kid who brings a weapon to school does get suspended. Or if such a kid wasn't suspended for being violent, but a Hispanic kid is suspended for the same thing.

The disparities in suspension generally don't tend to happen for the extreme examples like bringing a weapon to school. It's the more lower level offenses such as "disrupting the classroom" or "disrespect" where you see Black kids suspended more than White kids.

Most of those disparities are explained by frequency. You don’t get disciplined for “disrupting the classroom “ the first few times you do it, but after enough incidents you do. A naive examination of the discipline reasons and rates will miss this.

How many white boys in Potomac and Bethesda get away with repeatedly "disrupting the classroom" compared to their Black counterparts in Silver Spring and Montgomery Village?

The research on the racial disparities for low-level suspensions is well-documented and researched.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need actual classes for kids who need more support. Not everyone needs to be integrated. I've seen these kids in ES who are allowed to wander around and be extremely disruptive. Least restrictive does not work for everyone. We had a kid throwing chairs in ES for 2 years. That kids needs so much more and by MS and HS it would be a serious problem.

I seriously doubt the kids with diagnoses and behavioral plans are the kids getting suspended.

Not quite. If you look at suspension data, many of the kids who get suspended are in fact special needs. The most disciplined students in MCPS are Black, male and special needs. There's clearly a correlation with suspension data and being special needs, which suggests the way MCPS is supposedly supporting or not supporting special needs students is not working.

This would be a double standard if such kids don't get suspended for let's say bringing a weapon to school but a white kid who brings a weapon to school does get suspended. Or if such a kid wasn't suspended for being violent, but a Hispanic kid is suspended for the same thing.

The disparities in suspension generally don't tend to happen for the extreme examples like bringing a weapon to school. It's the more lower level offenses such as "disrupting the classroom" or "disrespect" where you see Black kids suspended more than White kids.

Isn’t it possible that the kids are getting suspended based on their behaviors and not due to skin color? It’s a fact that more minority students join gangs. It’s a fact that home discipline in lower educated areas tends to have more violence. So maybe the issue is not the schools, but the kids? Schools cannot change home life!

And how is not having consequences helping these kids for the future? No workplace is going to allow a fraction of the discipline issues that are in schools right now!

Do you have any idea how many badly behaving white boys routinely terrorize elementary classrooms and get away with it? I know several parents who complain about this, as the school gives the boy and his family infinite chances to throw tantrums, furniture and threaten to harm their peers.

You clearly have not looked at actual research on this issue nor are you in touch with what's happening in classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid's friend said that he went to the counselor to talk about a problem he had with a kid and he got a suspension for it, so now he doesn't talk to anyone at school when he has a problem.

And you believe this is the whole story?

[Anonymous]

Reading material for those who insist there aren't well-documented racial disparities for lower-level, subjective suspension categories:

SOURCE: https://hechingerreport.org/disobedience-discipline-and-racial-disparity/

In Ohio, Black students like Marquan are suspended for incidents like this far more frequently than their white peers. In the past six years, Ohio has issued close to 885,000 suspensions and expulsions for comments and misbehaviors tagged as disobedience or disruption. Nearly half of those dismissals have been for Black students, even though they make up only 17 percent of the public school population. Black students in Ohio are, on average, kicked out of classes for these offenses at four and half times the rate of white students.

A Hechinger Report analysis across 20 states found that these types of categories are cited as justification in nearly a third of all suspension and expulsion records. In many states, including Indiana, Maryland and Rhode Island, Black students are suspended more often for these kinds of incidents, which can include dress code violations, talking back to teachers and being too noisy in class.

States use different terms to describe the offenses – disrespect, insubordination, defiance – depending on their discipline code. But what they all have in common is the subjective nature of an educator’s decision; experts say that’s what leads to racial disparities. What seems disrespectful and threatening in one classroom can be entirely acceptable in another, depending on who’s listening and who’s speaking. That’s when racial and cultural differences between educators and students can come into play. Bias also plays a role.

SOURCE: https://wordinblack.com/2025/02/black-students-are-punished-more-then-expected-to-succeed/

Decades of research show that Black students are more likely to be punished for subjective offenses deemed as “defiant” or “disruptive” compared to their white peers who engage in similar actions.

“Unfortunately, teachers often interpret Black students’ behaviors more harshly due to implicit biases,” Scyster explains. “For example, Black boys are often labeled as ‘aggressive’ for normal childhood behaviors, while Black girls are frequently adultified and seen as ‘too mature’ for their age.”

In addition to bias, Scyster says systemic factors like the over-policing in Black schools and the use of zero-tolerance policies further exacerbate the problem. “Predominantly Black schools have more police officers but fewer counselors and support staff,” she adds. “That level of over-policing leads to over-discipline, which directly affects Black students learning outcomes.”

SOURCE: https://wordinblack.com/2025/04/black-boys-matter-why-are-they-disappearing-from-schools/

The data doesn’t lie. According to the Department of Education, Black kids make up around 18% of preschool enrollment in the U.S., but nearly 48% of all preschool suspensions. Kirkland says that’s where the pattern and the pushout begin.

“We have evidence of disciplinary action and special education placements beginning as early as 2 years old,” Kirkland says. “We treat Black boys like they’re problems before they even know how to write their names.”

This hyper-surveillance — combined with implicit bias, adultification, and racial anxiety from teachers, aides, and school administrators — creates a cycle of exclusion. Black male students are suspended and expelled at three to four times the rate of their white peers, often for subjective or vague offenses like “defiance” that don’t usually merit punishment in others.

Schools that punish Black boys early and often, Kirkland says, are not neutral spaces, but sites of harm. Many Black boys are improperly funneled into special education programs not to support their learning but to manage their presence. And the psychological and social impact of educational mismanagement — damaged self-esteem, increased self-doubt, and frustration — can be deadly.

“Ten years ago, the suicide rate for Black boys aged 10 to 14 had jumped 144%,” Kirkland notes. “We’re talking about emotional and psychological death long before they ever drop out.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need actual classes for kids who need more support. Not everyone needs to be integrated. I've seen these kids in ES who are allowed to wander around and be extremely disruptive. Least restrictive does not work for everyone. We had a kid throwing chairs in ES for 2 years. That kids needs so much more and by MS and HS it would be a serious problem.

I seriously doubt the kids with diagnoses and behavioral plans are the kids getting suspended.

Not quite. If you look at suspension data, many of the kids who get suspended are in fact special needs. The most disciplined students in MCPS are Black, male and special needs. There's clearly a correlation with suspension data and being special needs, which suggests the way MCPS is supposedly supporting or not supporting special needs students is not working.

This would be a double standard if such kids don't get suspended for let's say bringing a weapon to school but a white kid who brings a weapon to school does get suspended. Or if such a kid wasn't suspended for being violent, but a Hispanic kid is suspended for the same thing.

The disparities in suspension generally don't tend to happen for the extreme examples like bringing a weapon to school. It's the more lower level offenses such as "disrupting the classroom" or "disrespect" where you see Black kids suspended more than White kids.

Isn’t it possible that the kids are getting suspended based on their behaviors and not due to skin color? It’s a fact that more minority students join gangs. It’s a fact that home discipline in lower educated areas tends to have more violence. So maybe the issue is not the schools, but the kids? Schools cannot change home life!

And how is not having consequences helping these kids for the future? No workplace is going to allow a fraction of the discipline issues that are in schools right now!

Do you have any idea how many badly behaving white boys routinely terrorize elementary classrooms and get away with it? I know several parents who complain about this, as the school gives the boy and his family infinite chances to throw tantrums, furniture and threaten to harm their peers.

You clearly have not looked at actual research on this issue nor are you in touch with what's happening in classrooms.

We had the exact same experience, but with a black child. He threw desks, chairs, and my daughter’s classroom was routinely evacuated. He had “infinite chances”.

My point is you can find an example about a white child, I have a direct example of a black child, I’m sure other people have direct examples of Latino children.

Every child should be held to the same standard of behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need actual classes for kids who need more support. Not everyone needs to be integrated. I've seen these kids in ES who are allowed to wander around and be extremely disruptive. Least restrictive does not work for everyone. We had a kid throwing chairs in ES for 2 years. That kids needs so much more and by MS and HS it would be a serious problem.

I seriously doubt the kids with diagnoses and behavioral plans are the kids getting suspended.

Not quite. If you look at suspension data, many of the kids who get suspended are in fact special needs. The most disciplined students in MCPS are Black, male and special needs. There's clearly a correlation with suspension data and being special needs, which suggests the way MCPS is supposedly supporting or not supporting special needs students is not working.

This would be a double standard if such kids don't get suspended for let's say bringing a weapon to school but a white kid who brings a weapon to school does get suspended. Or if such a kid wasn't suspended for being violent, but a Hispanic kid is suspended for the same thing.

The disparities in suspension generally don't tend to happen for the extreme examples like bringing a weapon to school. It's the more lower level offenses such as "disrupting the classroom" or "disrespect" where you see Black kids suspended more than White kids.

Isn’t it possible that the kids are getting suspended based on their behaviors and not due to skin color? It’s a fact that more minority students join gangs. It’s a fact that home discipline in lower educated areas tends to have more violence. So maybe the issue is not the schools, but the kids? Schools cannot change home life!

And how is not having consequences helping these kids for the future? No workplace is going to allow a fraction of the discipline issues that are in schools right now!

Do you have any idea how many badly behaving white boys routinely terrorize elementary classrooms and get away with it? I know several parents who complain about this, as the school gives the boy and his family infinite chances to throw tantrums, furniture and threaten to harm their peers.

You clearly have not looked at actual research on this issue nor are you in touch with what's happening in classrooms.

We had the exact same experience, but with a black child. He threw desks, chairs, and my daughter’s classroom was routinely evacuated. He had “infinite chances”.

My point is you can find an example about a white child, I have a direct example of a black child, I’m sure other people have direct examples of Latino children.

Every child should be held to the same standard of behavior.

Sure. I agree. And the data, which is national, state and local, shows that every child is NOT being held to the same standard of behavior. Hence the conversation about racial disparities.

If every child was being held to the same standard, we'd see a lot more White boys suspended and expelled on par with Black boys, since there's a growing body of evidence that boys developmentally engage in aggressive play and behaviors that can be deemed "disruptive," and yet, we don't see that.

When a precocious White boy talks back, it's deemed as cute. When a Black boy does it, it's disrespect.

These things are well documented and researched. If you aren't familiar with the information, go look at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need actual classes for kids who need more support. Not everyone needs to be integrated. I've seen these kids in ES who are allowed to wander around and be extremely disruptive. Least restrictive does not work for everyone. We had a kid throwing chairs in ES for 2 years. That kids needs so much more and by MS and HS it would be a serious problem.

I seriously doubt the kids with diagnoses and behavioral plans are the kids getting suspended.

Not quite. If you look at suspension data, many of the kids who get suspended are in fact special needs. The most disciplined students in MCPS are Black, male and special needs. There's clearly a correlation with suspension data and being special needs, which suggests the way MCPS is supposedly supporting or not supporting special needs students is not working.

This would be a double standard if such kids don't get suspended for let's say bringing a weapon to school but a white kid who brings a weapon to school does get suspended. Or if such a kid wasn't suspended for being violent, but a Hispanic kid is suspended for the same thing.

The disparities in suspension generally don't tend to happen for the extreme examples like bringing a weapon to school. It's the more lower level offenses such as "disrupting the classroom" or "disrespect" where you see Black kids suspended more than White kids.

Isn’t it possible that the kids are getting suspended based on their behaviors and not due to skin color? It’s a fact that more minority students join gangs. It’s a fact that home discipline in lower educated areas tends to have more violence. So maybe the issue is not the schools, but the kids? Schools cannot change home life!

And how is not having consequences helping these kids for the future? No workplace is going to allow a fraction of the discipline issues that are in schools right now!

Do you have any idea how many badly behaving white boys routinely terrorize elementary classrooms and get away with it? I know several parents who complain about this, as the school gives the boy and his family infinite chances to throw tantrums, furniture and threaten to harm their peers.

You clearly have not looked at actual research on this issue nor are you in touch with what's happening in classrooms.

We had the exact same experience, but with a black child. He threw desks, chairs, and my daughter’s classroom was routinely evacuated. He had “infinite chances”.

My point is you can find an example about a white child, I have a direct example of a black child, I’m sure other people have direct examples of Latino children.

Every child should be held to the same standard of behavior.

Sure. I agree. And the data, which is national, state and local, shows that every child is NOT being held to the same standard of behavior. Hence the conversation about racial disparities.

If every child was being held to the same standard, we'd see a lot more White boys suspended and expelled on par with Black boys, since there's a growing body of evidence that boys developmentally engage in aggressive play and behaviors that can be deemed "disruptive," and yet, we don't see that.

When a precocious White boy talks back, it's deemed as cute. When a Black boy does it, it's disrespect.

These things are well documented and researched. If you aren't familiar with the information, go look at it.

,


Any of these behaviors are unacceptable and need be addressed. Full stop. It does no favors to anyone if children are unable to emotionally regulate, no matter their circumstances. Maybe the system needs to allow a break from schooling to help address what is causing the behavior instead of sweeping it under the rug. Suspending them obviously isn’t working. That is why I despise people like Mink and Jawando. Their big mouths are filled with little to no substance or actual support. It’s all performative. They are just as much to blame for this happening.

[Anonymous]

Two things can be simultaneously true:
1) there can be racial bias and black and brown boys can be discriminated against with more likelihood of discipline compared to peers from different groups
2) statistically, more infractions of rules are actually committed by certain populations (which are also associated with poverty) and you can’t just ignore the code of conduct and associated discipline because you are trying to improve optics and stats. Honestly think about every well known school shooter. It’s not some 45 year old umc mom. It’s boys, mostly white, late teens early 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid's friend said that he went to the counselor to talk about a problem he had with a kid and he got a suspension for it, so now he doesn't talk to anyone at school when he has a problem.

This! My child reported in-person and online bullying to a counselor. The counselor and vice principal forced my child into a restorative justice circle with the offender, made them all delete the video from their phones and gave them all in-school detention for their respective roles in the conflict. This was 2 years ago and child will never report anything to the school again. Word quickly got around the school that this happened so most kids are afraid to report anything to the administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two things can be simultaneously true:
1) there can be racial bias and black and brown boys can be discriminated against with more likelihood of discipline compared to peers from different groups
2) statistically, more infractions of rules are actually committed by certain populations (which are also associated with poverty) and you can’t just ignore the code of conduct and associated discipline because you are trying to improve optics and stats. Honestly think about every well known school shooter. It’s not some 45 year old umc mom. It’s boys, mostly white, late teens early 20s.

I agree with you. Both of those things are true. But to hold both of those truths simultaneously requires a level of intelligence, competence and nuance that MCPS seems fundamentally incapable of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's friend said that he went to the counselor to talk about a problem he had with a kid and he got a suspension for it, so now he doesn't talk to anyone at school when he has a problem.

This! My child reported in-person and online bullying to a counselor. The counselor and vice principal forced my child into a restorative justice circle with the offender, made them all delete the video from their phones and gave them all in-school detention for their respective roles in the conflict. This was 2 years ago and child will never report anything to the school again. Word quickly got around the school that this happened so most kids are afraid to report anything to the administration.

George Floyd. If brave lady hadn’t recorded it… we’d be MCPS.

[Anonymous]

The bullies of this child should be suspended. I don’t know their race (it doesn’t matter).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bullies of this child should be suspended. I don’t know their race (it doesn’t matter).

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1KVfAE7wy9/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things can be simultaneously true:
1) there can be racial bias and black and brown boys can be discriminated against with more likelihood of discipline compared to peers from different groups
2) statistically, more infractions of rules are actually committed by certain populations (which are also associated with poverty) and you can’t just ignore the code of conduct and associated discipline because you are trying to improve optics and stats. Honestly think about every well known school shooter. It’s not some 45 year old umc mom. It’s boys, mostly white, late teens early 20s.

I agree with you. Both of those things are true. But to hold both of those truths simultaneously requires a level of intelligence, competence and nuance that MCPS seems fundamentally incapable of.

PP says "statistically" but cited no statistics - they don't exist. If you actually knew any Black boys and listened to their experiences you'd understand what they go through and it is definitely racism. There are mountains of research demonstrating it is racism. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have discipline in schools - that is a cowardly move by MCPS to claim "equity" when they haven't actually done any of the hard work. In fact they just stopped doing their jobs out of fear of being called racist. That's pretty gross.