Who is the narcissist in this scenario?

[Anonymous]

So is Brenda wrong? She claims she has had a revelation in discovering Joan has been a toxic abusive narcissist and is 90 percent cutting Joan off from her family, even as they live under the same roof. Examples she gives as proof:
1) Joan never apologizes
2) Joan creates medical crises and goes to the ER when she wants attention
3) Joan asks Brenda's kids for favors (rides, carrying things, etc)
4) Joan says Brenda is just too sensitive
5) Joan sometimes doesn't buy presents for her kids when they stop spending time with her
6) Joan sometimes moves Brenda's stuff without asking (ignores boundaries)
7) Joan thinks she's smarter than everyone else
8) Nobody likes Joan and avoids her
9) Joan says she doesn't want to live anymore after being ostracized by her own family
10) Joan is always negative and angry at the world
11) Joan uses her health ailments to keep Brenda hooked and in her life

Meanwhile, Brenda talks badly about Joan to friends and family, saying she is mentally ill, and tells her friends and family to avoid talking to her. Now Joan is disabled, alone, depressed, and isolated and says she doesn't know what she did wrong to deserve this treatment. The isolating part seems a little bit like narcissistic behavior to me.

[Anonymous]

It makes no sense - and may even qualify as elder abuse - that Brenda moved into Joan's home and now Joan is no longer on the title. EVEN IF Joan is a narcissist (and it does not sound like she is, based on information provided), Brenda has completely taken advantage of her. Somehow, Brenda went for living in the space with her husband to now having multiple kids and using the indoor and outdoor space for daily living but also hosting, decorating, etc. Brenda sounds like nothing but a taker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is Brenda wrong? She claims she has had a revelation in discovering Joan has been a toxic abusive narcissist and is 90 percent cutting Joan off from her family, even as they live under the same roof. Examples she gives as proof:
1) Joan never apologizes
2) Joan creates medical crises and goes to the ER when she wants attention
3) Joan asks Brenda's kids for favors (rides, carrying things, etc)
4) Joan says Brenda is just too sensitive
5) Joan sometimes doesn't buy presents for her kids when they stop spending time with her
6) Joan sometimes moves Brenda's stuff without asking (ignores boundaries)
7) Joan thinks she's smarter than everyone else
8) Nobody likes Joan and avoids her
9) Joan says she doesn't want to live anymore after being ostracized by her own family
10) Joan is always negative and angry at the world
11) Joan uses her health ailments to keep Brenda hooked and in her life

Meanwhile, Brenda talks badly about Joan to friends and family, saying she is mentally ill, and tells her friends and family to avoid talking to her. Now Joan is disabled, alone, depressed, and isolated and says she doesn't know what she did wrong to deserve this treatment. The isolating part seems a little bit like narcissistic behavior to me.

Brenda sounds like a psycho. Joan should watch her back.

[Anonymous]

Brenda is unstable and untrustworthy. Joan never should have allows herself to be taken off the deed. I would guess Brenda is building her case with exaggerated claims about Joan in order to kick Joan out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Who paid for all the additions?
Who is on the deed? Mortgages?
Brenda is a taker who now doesn't want to give.

But Brenda was a primary caregiver for many years. She just got fed up, especially when the burden started falling on her own kids.

As for the house: The house first was owned by Joan with a mortgage. Then Brenda's name was added to the deed. Then, Joan's name was taken off the deed and the house was put in Brenda's and her husband's name. They paid for the additions, likely through a home equity loan. They are still paying off the loans on the house.

Hi Brenda!

It was supposed to be a mutually beneficial arrangement. Brenda had terrible credit and lots of debt that needed to be paid off. Getting on the mortgage for the house with her mom eventually helped her improve her credit and financially recover, and living with her allowed her to save up. When Brenda got married, that's when they decided on the 2nd story solution with her husband and her moving into the 2nd floor. Joan's name got taken off, Brenda's husband name got added to the deed, and they took out a loan to do the addition.

Does Brenda plan to give her mother any money after the sale of the home!

I don’t see any obvious narcissists here, just people who’ve made bad choices.

I don't know. Should she? Probably not? The mixed finances are a mess. Joan was the original owner, who paid a mortgage for like 8 years. Then Brenda became part owner, and they both paid towards the house for about 4 years. Although I think Brenda paid very little. And then they took out another loan for the addition, which Brenda and her husband took on payments for.

I didn’t mean to use an exclamation point, but of course Joan would be owed money on the sale, otherwise she just gave Brenda and her husband a house for free. If the arrangement was that she would give them the house but she gets to live there until she passes, then at least that was somewhat of a plan, but if Brenda wants Joan out she should have to buy her and - and vice versa.

That’s essentially what Brenda is waiting for- she’s waiting for her mom to die. She is not planning to kick her out. She’s just afraid that it’s going to be 10 more years of this.

[Anonymous]

Brenda is the bad one. Narcissist? Not really relevant. She's just a grown up brat.
Buy your own damn house, Brenda. And take care of your Mom and grow up.

[Anonymous]

OP what is your relationship to these two people and what advice are you seeking or for what purpose? Assuming OP is changing names, I am guessing that the OP is in her late 60s to early 70s based on her choosing Brenda and Joan.

Also in which state is it so easy to take people off deeds and mortgages and put others onto them? Title transfers trigger various taxes, and asset transfer taxes. Mortgages require full repayment before taking someone off.

[Anonymous]

How old is Joan and how old is Brenda?

Joan should get legal advice about the title, her interest in the house and what each of their legal rights are in this situation. She may also have a case for elder abuse against Brenda and should see an elder law attorney or contact the office on aging in her area. Brenda should be concerned about that.

It would probably be best if they completely separated their households. Living together has brought out the worst in each of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How old is Joan and how old is Brenda?

Joan should get legal advice about the title, her interest in the house and what each of their legal rights are in this situation. She may also have a case for elder abuse against Brenda and should see an elder law attorney or contact the office on aging in her area. Brenda should be concerned about that.

It would probably be best if they completely separated their households. Living together has brought out the worst in each of them.

Joan is near 80 but has been disabled and needing special care for her health issues for most of Brenda’s adult life. Brenda has taken on that role, even though Joan has siblings and other children. No one else has stepped up. And Brenda put the entire family on notice that she no longer wants that role. Joan probably wouldn’t still be alive if it hadn’t been for Brenda and the many many times they have cared for her through every surgery, injury, or health complication that lead to a hospital visit. Brenda is resentful Joan has not taken responsibility for her own physical and mental health and has put that burden on Brenda and her family.

I don’t think there’s abuse from either Joan or Brenda. I agree that they are in a bad living situation but I think they are both trapped financially, until Joan passes.

Joan was taken off the title because Brenda and her husband took on all of the new mortgage. But yes, it seems she claims some ownership to the house since she paid the first mortgage, pre-addition, mostly in full over 12 years.

[Anonymous]

Joan, very clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Joan, very clearly.

Sorry, I mixed up the names. The adult daughter is a narc; she is a horrific psychopathic narc.

[Anonymous]

Brenda moved in and took over her mother's house. Then she hosted and used mom as a servant for events. Then she got fed up with mom needing some care. Then she took mom off the house deed, without paying anything to mom. Then she had enough and is trying to kick the mom out of the house that she stole from her.
I wonder who would ever wonder who the narc is here? Other than the narc who thinks everyone is against her and she is a victim!

[Anonymous]

Brenda, you are a narcissist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I do not see anything there that is narcissistic- just a bad situation sharing a house. Why can’t they sell the house - get mom a retirement place and the daughter and family get their own place?

That's not a bad idea. But I think that maybe they wouldn't be able to afford to both get a retirement place AND a new home for Brenda's family from the sale of the house.

So maybe Brenda's family can pony up and buy their own house for their family or contribute to what they need instead of mooching off mom who she'd rather see dead?

Brenda and her husband paid for the 2nd story addition, so she's not mooching off mom.

Yes, she is. Brenda is a horrific user, and rather than buy her house and have a mortgage like normal people, she decided to intrude on her mom's property and is now thinking it is her house. Brenda should go tried for elderly abuse.

[Anonymous]

Brenda, 100%

Brenda, you are totally delusional