Setting boundaries with STBX?

[Anonymous]

OP - when and how did your affair start?

[Anonymous]

"And although this is DCUM, some of you must live in beknighted states in which "adultery" includes relationships after a separation and has negative legal consequences during a divorce. Thankfully, that is not the case in DC, VA or MD."

OMG! You are so misinformed. You absolutely need to speak with an attorney ASAP so that you stop harming your legal position, if you live in VA. VA doesn't recognize separation. You're either married or you're not. (I dated someone who was in the process of finishing his divorce in VA after many years of living separately from his ex and we consulted with his attorney about minimizing any harm that our relationship could cause to his case.) In VA, you are 100% still married, and as such, sleeping with someone who is not your spouse is going to be used against you in the divorce. To sleep with him inside your "marital home" is just gasoline on the fire. Expect to pay even more alimony than you are already on the hook for if you keep this up. You're also being a real jerk by pretending that you might reunite after the 6 months when all of your actions said otherwise. Your kids and mutual friends will see this and think worse of you because of it.

"In Virginia, even post-separation relationships can be considered adultery. Most courts will not impose criminal penalties and many judges will not award a divorce based on adultery, but it’s important to know that it may be an issue in your case. For that reason, most divorce attorneys will recommend using discretion in pursuing new relationships." https://www.melonelawpc.com/blog/im-separated-and-dating-will-this-hurt-my-case/

"Many states legally recognize separation. In such states, a marriage remains intact during separation, but the spouses live separate lives. Virginia is one of a handful of states that don’t recognize legal separation.

This means that couples in Virginia can only be married or divorced. Even if spouses choose to separate and one moves out of the shared family home, they’re legally still married in the eyes of the law until divorce proceedings are complete."

"Virginia recognizes both no-fault and at-fault divorce. When a married couple mutually decides to end the marriage, they typically opt for a no-fault divorce. However, dating while still married can end up giving your spouse grounds to file for an at-fault divorce."

"In Virginia, an at-fault divorce can impact how assets are divided and the amount of alimony one spouse is ordered to pay the other. Dating can lead you to lose out on alimony you would have been awarded or can leave you paying a higher amount than you would have paid if you’d waited to date until the marriage was over. " https://www.achowdhurylaw.com/blog/yes-you-can-date-while-separated-in-virginia-but-heres-the-catch/

[Anonymous]

I’ve posted before, but I will say this again. STOP TALKING TO THIS GUY SO MUCH. He should have zero clue that you are dating, he should not know how your yoga class was or that you had dinner with Susie last week. He should not know if you got in a fight with your sister or what you had for breakfast this morning.

Your only interactions should be around your adults kids (if even needed) and any possible divorce logistics that cannot be handled by lawyers. You don’t divorce and “keep your best friend.” You don’t divorce and still have a partner in all your shared memories. They will be your individual memories now. You are messing with both your heads trying to be buddies with the guy you couldn’t stay married to. If you were meant to be best friends, you would have stayed married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - when and how did your affair start?

it started around the time of our separation. New Guy is a family friend and he and I have always felt attraction. he separated from his DW around the same time as my STBX and I did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"And although this is DCUM, some of you must live in beknighted states in which "adultery" includes relationships after a separation and has negative legal consequences during a divorce. Thankfully, that is not the case in DC, VA or MD."

OMG! You are so misinformed. You absolutely need to speak with an attorney ASAP so that you stop harming your legal position, if you live in VA. VA doesn't recognize separation. You're either married or you're not. (I dated someone who was in the process of finishing his divorce in VA after many years of living separately from his ex and we consulted with his attorney about minimizing any harm that our relationship could cause to his case.) In VA, you are 100% still married, and as such, sleeping with someone who is not your spouse is going to be used against you in the divorce. To sleep with him inside your "marital home" is just gasoline on the fire. Expect to pay even more alimony than you are already on the hook for if you keep this up. You're also being a real jerk by pretending that you might reunite after the 6 months when all of your actions said otherwise. Your kids and mutual friends will see this and think worse of you because of it.

"In Virginia, even post-separation relationships can be considered adultery. Most courts will not impose criminal penalties and many judges will not award a divorce based on adultery, but it’s important to know that it may be an issue in your case. For that reason, most divorce attorneys will recommend using discretion in pursuing new relationships." https://www.melonelawpc.com/blog/im-separated-and-dating-will-this-hurt-my-case/

"Many states legally recognize separation. In such states, a marriage remains intact during separation, but the spouses live separate lives. Virginia is one of a handful of states that don’t recognize legal separation.

This means that couples in Virginia can only be married or divorced. Even if spouses choose to separate and one moves out of the shared family home, they’re legally still married in the eyes of the law until divorce proceedings are complete."

"Virginia recognizes both no-fault and at-fault divorce. When a married couple mutually decides to end the marriage, they typically opt for a no-fault divorce. However, dating while still married can end up giving your spouse grounds to file for an at-fault divorce."

"In Virginia, an at-fault divorce can impact how assets are divided and the amount of alimony one spouse is ordered to pay the other. Dating can lead you to lose out on alimony you would have been awarded or can leave you paying a higher amount than you would have paid if you’d waited to date until the marriage was over. " https://www.achowdhurylaw.com/blog/yes-you-can-date-while-separated-in-virginia-but-heres-the-catch/

Are you a lawyer in VA? Because I am, and you are incorrect. (Probably bc you are basing your info on what an ambulance chaser who is trying to scare people says!). Adultery can be grounds for divorce, but except in exceptionally rare circumstances, adultery does not affect financial outcomes. The very rare exceptions are when the adulterous spouse has used joint resources in a particularly egregious way to further the adultery or financially benefit the affair partner. (Examples: adulterous spouse drains kids' college fund to buy expensive jewelry for AP, or leaves mortgage on joint home unpaid for years in order to buy a house for AP. But we are not talking about things like "adulterous spouse occasionally busy AP dinner" or "AP sometimes stays in jointly owned property." We're talking life savings drained, that kind of thing.

You don't know the details of OP's situation. In my own, for instance, my STBX and I have a legal marital separation agreement in VA – essentially, a post-nup– in which we have already settled all financial details, including disposition of the home, which will be mine upin divorce (my family paid for it originally) andwe have already made a legally binding agreement to have any divorce be no-fault. It's a binding contract under VA law that will be incorporated into the divorce decree. It also contains a standard non-interference clause, stating "as long as the Parties live separate and apart, each shall be free from direct and Indirect interference of the other in the conduct of his or her life.... each shall have full and complete independence of action in all business and social relations.... The public and private activities of each shall be free from the restraint or supervision and control of the other, as though the parties have never been married to one another." Courts recognize the validity of such agreements. You have no idea where OP is in her divorce and separation process. Hopefully she has already worked out such an agreement with STBX.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - when and how did your affair start?

it started around the time of our separation. New Guy is a family friend and he and I have always felt attraction. he separated from his DW around the same time as my STBX and I did.

That's not OP. ^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TBH, this sounds like the new guy was in the picture before you separated. Your STBX may suspect that and be reacting to it. Having a serious boyfriend within months of ending what sounds like a long-term marriage isn’t very healthy.

Excellent point.

Also, it feels odd to bring the guy into the shared marital home when your spouse was under the impression you may get back together. When you likely knew all along you were done.

It is clear that OP initiated the trial separation to explore this relationship. Her DH seems to have figured that out, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TBH, this sounds like the new guy was in the picture before you separated. Your STBX may suspect that and be reacting to it. Having a serious boyfriend within months of ending what sounds like a long-term marriage isn’t very healthy.

Excellent point.

Also, it feels odd to bring the guy into the shared marital home when your spouse was under the impression you may get back together. When you likely knew all along you were done.

It is clear that OP initiated the trial separation to explore this relationship. Her DH seems to have figured that out, too.

But isn't that what DCUM always says to do? Divorce if you want to start something new instead of having an affair. I see nothing wrong here.

OP. time to start communicating with your ex in a very business like manner. no information needs to go his way that does not concern him directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Wow, some of you are making a lot of erroneous assumptions. (Projection?) No, I did not start seeing new guy before I was separated. And no, STBX is not "paying the mortgage" on the house we legally own jointly: I've been supporting STBX for years (a major reason for the split) and my income pays the bills. And although this is DCUM, some of you must live in beknighted states in which "adultery" includes relationships after a separation and has negative legal consequences during a divorce. Thankfully, that is not the case in DC, VA or MD.

I am trying to figure out if there is a way to still be friends with STBX. Our kids are grown but obviously we are going to have to see each other from time to time and with kids in common talk from time to time, because financial questions and health issues and so on will come up where it would be good for both parents to be able to talk. My own parents divorced but managed to maintain a warm and friendly relationship through their own remarriages. I am trying to figure out how to get there with STBX.

I recognize it may not be possible, but that is why, while I want to set boundaries, I also don;t want to just completely excise him from my life. He is my kids' dad and a decent human most of the time. Messed up in some ways, sure, but we all are. That's what I'm struggling with: drawing the line in the right place, where there is respect for boundaries without complete inability to have normal conversations. I realize it may just be too soon.

You talk too much.
You’re the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve posted before, but I will say this again. STOP TALKING TO THIS GUY SO MUCH. He should have zero clue that you are dating, he should not know how your yoga class was or that you had dinner with Susie last week. He should not know if you got in a fight with your sister or what you had for breakfast this morning.

Your only interactions should be around your adults kids (if even needed) and any possible divorce logistics that cannot be handled by lawyers. You don’t divorce and “keep your best friend.” You don’t divorce and still have a partner in all your shared memories. They will be your individual memories now. You are messing with both your heads trying to be buddies with the guy you couldn’t stay married to. If you were meant to be best friends, you would have stayed married.

+1000. Amicable means that you don’t fight around your kids and put your differences aside when the kids are around. It doesn’t mean that you continue to be besties and share everything about your lives. How does he even know you have a boyfriend? You should never have mentioned it.

[Anonymous]

How would you have felt if your STBX was good friends with one of his exes all the years you were married to him? Your new partner relationship deserves your attention; don’t have a third person distracting you two.

[Anonymous]

so, an independent observer/marriage therapist would see this as:
- you were "fatigued" with your marriage
- you are in limerence with a new guy.
- you are discarding your marriage commitments, family, vows, etc
- you view him as "controlling" because he is trying to save the marriage and family

Own it. This is on you. You are the reason for your failing marriage. As a pp noted, it is adultery. Adultery makes people make horrible decisions.

[Anonymous]

I believe the last conviction for adultery (a class 4 misdemeanor in Virginia) was more than 20 years ago. Even then it was considered rare and shocking. (See https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2003/12/01/va-adultery-case-roils-divorce-industry/84ff5ce8-f69b-410e-9a2f-d1bae148993a/)

Any VA lawyer telling a separated client who is dating that he/she is in danger of criminal prosecution is seriously misleading that client. If your lawyer says that you could be prosecuted for adultery in VA, find a new lawyer.

Separated spouses sexual behavior has *might* impact custody of minors in a contested divorce, if the judge believes one party's behavior is so bad that it is harmful to the children, but this is also rare.

When there are no minor children, adultery has no effect on financial outcomes except in those rare cases in which both the adultery and "dissipation of assets" can be proved. Those are those situations in which the adulterous party spent marital resources to further the adultery or enrich the person they're sleeping with. But as noted, this is not about the adulterous partner buying dinner for the person they're sleeping with, or even paying for an occasional vacation or something. This in situations where the adulterous party has frittered away some really substantial portion of the marital assets on this. And the legal expenses involved in proving this rarely make the effort worthwhile.

There are all kinds of excellent reasons to set firm boundaries with soon to be exes, and all kinds of good reasons for divorcing spouses to go slow when it comes to getting seriously involved with others. But no one should be terrified that dating someone else after separating will cause legal problems.

And people should maybe try being a tad less judgmental, too. None of us know the details here. Show some empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How would you have felt if your STBX was good friends with one of his exes all the years you were married to him? Your new partner relationship deserves your attention; don’t have a third person distracting you two.

He was. I felt fine about it. I'm a grown-up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:so, an independent observer/marriage therapist would see this as:
- you were "fatigued" with your marriage
- you are in limerence with a new guy.
- you are discarding your marriage commitments, family, vows, etc
- you view him as "controlling" because he is trying to save the marriage and family

Own it. This is on you. You are the reason for your failing marriage. As a pp noted, it is adultery. Adultery makes people make horrible decisions.

That is a whole lot of BS you just wrote. If you make a living as a marriage therapist, please disclose your identity so we never pay you for advice.